Patent: Another Multi Layer Related Sensor Patent from Canon

[Canon Rumors]

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Below is another patent for a multi-layer related sensor patent from Canon has come to light. This is the third one that has appeared in the last month or so.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html" target="_blank">Keith over at Northlight</a> breaks it down in a way that’s easy to understand. “<em>The issue addressed, is light of the ‘wrong’ colour being reflected from one layer into another, which reduces the ability of different layers to respond to photons of only a particular range of colours. This has the potential to greatly improve the colour accuracy and fidelity of such stacked sensor designs.</em>”</p>
<p><strong>Patent Publication No. 2014-130890 (Google Translated)</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Publication date 2014.7.10</li>
<li>Filing date 2012.12.28</li>
<li>Multilayer sensor drawback of</li>
<li>G is light, the image quality is degraded and reflected by the surface of the layer between the G and B layer, re-enters the B layer</li>
<li>Canon patents</li>
<li>The provision of the dielectric film and the insulating film as an anti-reflection film</li>
<li>First insulating layer, B layer, a dielectric film, insulating film, dielectric film, G layer, a dielectric film, insulating film, insulating film, dielectric film, the R layer</li>
<li>By increasing the thickness of the dielectric film, to suppress the multiple reflection</li>
<li>The dielectric film is between the G layer and B layer, the reflectance with respect to G is lower than B</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Source: [<a href="http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2014-07-14" target="_blank">EG</a>] via [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html" target="_blank">NL</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[keithcooper]

I have to admit that I'm getting hopeful that we may actually see something like this in a Canon camera ;-)

If they can get it right (OK, big IF), it has the potential to make quite an impact.

I also recall the flurry of patents before the 7D came out ;-)

 

[Lee Jay]

I also recall the flurry of patents before the 7D came out ;-)

Did any of them make it into the 7D?

 

[keithcooper]

I also recall the flurry of patents before the 7D came out ;-)

Did any of them make it into the 7D?

The multilayer sensor for metering was one I recall

 

[Lee Jay]

I also recall the flurry of patents before the 7D came out ;-)

Did any of them make it into the 7D?

The multilayer sensor for metering was one I recall

It's interesting to speculate about what would happen to the rest of the SLR line if the 7D replacement's sensor were a substantial step up in performance per unit area.

 

[KacperP]

Antireflection coatings between layers. Sounds nice. ;D
I was kinda hoping for optical resonance layers technology. :-X

 

[jrista]

It sounds like Canon is identifying and solving a number of issues with layered sensors. Given that, and given that their patent filings are still being published, I am not sure we'll see a layered sensor with the 7D II. The issues would need to be worked out first. It's possible all of these were filed a 18-24 months ago, and the technology is ready, but there could also be ongoing work.

I'm still waiting for a Canon patent that shows they figured out how to reduce noise and increase dynamic range in a layered sensor. I think that would make...well...everyone's day.

It's intriguing that Canon is working on a layered sensor, though. At the very least, it gives some hope for the cameras that come after the 7D II.

 

[Don Haines]

It sounds like Canon is identifying and solving a number of issues with layered sensors. Given that, and given that their patent filings are still being published, I am not sure we'll see a layered sensor with the 7D II. The issues would need to be worked out first. It's possible all of these were filed a 18-24 months ago, and the technology is ready, but there could also be ongoing work.

I'm still waiting for a Canon patent that shows they figured out how to reduce noise and increase dynamic range in a layered sensor. I think that would make...well...everyone's day.

It's intriguing that Canon is working on a layered sensor, though. At the very least, it gives some hope for the cameras that come after the 7D II.

The 7D2 is obviously a mirrorless APS-H multilayer sensor camera that is tightly integrated with the Microsoft Surface tablets...

 

[jrista]

It sounds like Canon is identifying and solving a number of issues with layered sensors. Given that, and given that their patent filings are still being published, I am not sure we'll see a layered sensor with the 7D II. The issues would need to be worked out first. It's possible all of these were filed a 18-24 months ago, and the technology is ready, but there could also be ongoing work.

I'm still waiting for a Canon patent that shows they figured out how to reduce noise and increase dynamic range in a layered sensor. I think that would make...well...everyone's day.

It's intriguing that Canon is working on a layered sensor, though. At the very least, it gives some hope for the cameras that come after the 7D II.

The 7D2 is obviously a mirrorless APS-H multilayer sensor camera that is tightly integrated with the Microsoft Surface tablets...

That would be nice...especially if it has 120 beautiful megapixels.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I have to admit that I'm getting hopeful that we may actually see something like this in a Canon camera ;-)

If they can get it right (OK, big IF), it has the potential to make quite an impact.

I also recall the flurry of patents before the 7D came out ;-)

Hard to say. There are so many issues with multi-layer sensors. Maybe they have done a lot more in secret and they are ready, but, OTOH, it could just be a very slow work in progress and they may just be protecting things for 10-15 years out (or much longer if some aspects prove too hard to overcome), for all we know.

Anyway I guess we will known by next spring at the latest and maybe this fall, if lucky. And then it will be interesting to see how it performs on the chance it actually is ready.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Maybe 7D2 gets the new dual ISO instant read per pixel (ALL pixels) thing? And 5D4 that plus multi-layer sensor in late 2015?
Or maybe 7D2 gets enhanced dual pixel AF and 5D5 gets dual ISO read per pixel (NOT the ML stuff that has issues, true, dual read of each and every photosite) in late 2018 ;D.

 

[roxics]

Notice that the patent was filed in December of 2012. So they've had over a year and a half to work on it, plus whatever time they spent before filing. So it's possible it will be included in a 7D2 this fall.

 

[jrista]

Maybe 7D2 gets the new dual ISO instant read per pixel (ALL pixels) thing? And 5D4 that plus multi-layer sensor in late 2015?
Or maybe 7D2 gets enhanced dual pixel AF and 5D5 gets dual ISO read per pixel (NOT the ML stuff that has issues, true, dual read of each and every photosite) in late 2018 ;D.

Why dual ISO, instead of just reduced read noise? All dual ISO does is work around a read noise problem. I know Canon already has several read noise and dark current noise reducing patents, some seem quite effective. Dual ISO is a workaround that ML discovered and implemented, because current Canon cameras have high read noise.

If Canon would just reduce their read noise, then we wouldn't need dual ISO...the problem with noise and DR would be solved directly.

 

[jrista]

Notice that the patent was filed in December of 2012. So they've had over a year and a half to work on it, plus whatever time they spent before filing. So it's possible it will be included in a 7D2 this fall.

I'd expect Canon to announce a prototype, and show off the benefits of their technology, as they have in the past, before actually using it in a product. There certainly isn't any guarantee that would happen, but it doesn't feel like the technology is ready yet. I expect more patents on the technology, and a prototype test, before we actually see a competitive layered sensor in a DSLR.

 

[keithcooper]

I'd expect Canon to announce a prototype, and show off the benefits of their technology, as they have in the past, before actually using it in a product. There certainly isn't any guarantee that would happen, but it doesn't feel like the technology is ready yet. I expect more patents on the technology, and a prototype test, before we actually see a competitive layered sensor in a DSLR.

Is this something you would want to actually introduce, and not trail?

I can think of few better ways Canon could produce its own 'Osbourne Effect' than to show something so different whilst still churning out a range of cameras with 'existing' technology.

Much like Craig, I've had quite a few 'rumours' sent about upcoming 'new' sensor technology, but nothing overly convincing, and nothing from anyone who's genuine (i.e not hiding behind anonymity) understanding of sensor technologies I'd rate.

 

[jrista]

I'd expect Canon to announce a prototype, and show off the benefits of their technology, as they have in the past, before actually using it in a product. There certainly isn't any guarantee that would happen, but it doesn't feel like the technology is ready yet. I expect more patents on the technology, and a prototype test, before we actually see a competitive layered sensor in a DSLR.

Is this something you would want to actually introduce, and not trail?

I can think of few better ways Canon could produce its own 'Osbourne Effect' than to show something so different whilst still churning out a range of cameras with 'existing' technology.

Much like Craig, I've had quite a few 'rumours' sent about upcoming 'new' sensor technology, but nothing overly convincing, and nothing from anyone who's genuine (i.e not hiding behind anonymity) understanding of sensor technologies I'd rate.

Canon wouldn't be pioneering layered color sensor technology. That was done with Foveon. Canon certainly wouldn't be the "first" with a layered sensor if they released the 7D II with one.

Also, keep in mind, the very vast majority of "cutting edge" sensor technology has never made it's way into a DSLR or Mirrorless camera. Sony's Exmor technology is a pretty interesting step towards a better, more integrated sensor design, but even that is still a very far cry from the most cutting edge sensor technology. Most of the really amazing stuff is in video sensors and small form factor sensors...the ultra tiny 1/8th inch sensors that are used in phones, tablets, and other small and cheaper cameras.

In the grand scheme of things, Canon is a "little" behind, Sony is a "bit" ahead, when it comes to large form factor sensors. The technological differences are far from large, and not even remotely close to huge. The single largest differentiator is low ISO noise, which is largely due to Canon's ADC units, which are not actually part of their sensor at all...they are part of the DIGIC chips.

Both companies larger sensor technology is quite far behind the level of technology employed in smaller sensors, though. Even Sony's small 1/3" ICX CCD sensors have better technology in them than either Canon or Sony DSLR/Mirrorless sensors.

Canon could easily close the gap if they either fixed their ADC units in the Digic chips to introduce less noise, or move to a lower frequency on-sensor-die column-parallel ADC approach. All the rest of their sensor technology is actually very good. If they employed more of their noise reduction patents, they could dramatically reduce dark current noise (which can be problematic for higher ISO settings and long exposures), reduce readout frequency when a high speed readout is no necessary (lower frequency reduces noise), etc.

 

[Don Haines]

It sounds like Canon is identifying and solving a number of issues with layered sensors. Given that, and given that their patent filings are still being published, I am not sure we'll see a layered sensor with the 7D II. The issues would need to be worked out first. It's possible all of these were filed a 18-24 months ago, and the technology is ready, but there could also be ongoing work.

I'm still waiting for a Canon patent that shows they figured out how to reduce noise and increase dynamic range in a layered sensor. I think that would make...well...everyone's day.

It's intriguing that Canon is working on a layered sensor, though. At the very least, it gives some hope for the cameras that come after the 7D II.

The 7D2 is obviously a mirrorless APS-H multilayer sensor camera that is tightly integrated with the Microsoft Surface tablets...

That would be nice...especially if it has 120 beautiful megapixels.

Oh yes, I forgot.... QUAD pixel multilayer pixel technology where each sub- pixel is individually readable.... For a cool 480 megapixel resolution..... This improvement brought to you from the good folks at Sandisk and at Seagate.....

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Maybe 7D2 gets the new dual ISO instant read per pixel (ALL pixels) thing? And 5D4 that plus multi-layer sensor in late 2015?
Or maybe 7D2 gets enhanced dual pixel AF and 5D5 gets dual ISO read per pixel (NOT the ML stuff that has issues, true, dual read of each and every photosite) in late 2018 ;D.

Why dual ISO, instead of just reduced read noise? All dual ISO does is work around a read noise problem. I know Canon already has several read noise and dark current noise reducing patents, some seem quite effective. Dual ISO is a workaround that ML discovered and implemented, because current Canon cameras have high read noise.

If Canon would just reduce their read noise, then we wouldn't need dual ISO...the problem with noise and DR would be solved directly.

ML didn't discover it. It was already suggest years ago on DPR by E.M.
Who knows what proves easiest for them to implement.

 

[Don Haines]

Notice that the patent was filed in December of 2012. So they've had over a year and a half to work on it, plus whatever time they spent before filing. So it's possible it will be included in a 7D2 this fall.

I'd expect Canon to announce a prototype, and show off the benefits of their technology, as they have in the past, before actually using it in a product. There certainly isn't any guarantee that would happen, but it doesn't feel like the technology is ready yet. I expect more patents on the technology, and a prototype test, before we actually see a competitive layered sensor in a DSLR.

What about a P/S camera with the technology? That would be a lot safer way to introduce it.....

 

[jrista]

Notice that the patent was filed in December of 2012. So they've had over a year and a half to work on it, plus whatever time they spent before filing. So it's possible it will be included in a 7D2 this fall.

I'd expect Canon to announce a prototype, and show off the benefits of their technology, as they have in the past, before actually using it in a product. There certainly isn't any guarantee that would happen, but it doesn't feel like the technology is ready yet. I expect more patents on the technology, and a prototype test, before we actually see a competitive layered sensor in a DSLR.

What about a P/S camera with the technology? That would be a lot safer way to introduce it.....

Possibly. I dunno, sometimes I think it's a very careful balance for companies like Canon. On the one hand, it might be cheaper (and therefor "safer") to introduce new technology at the low end. On the flip side, you then have your really high end, like the 1D X, where pros who really understand the value of the technology could actually put it to good use, and some of whom might be miffed if the technology did not show up there first.