Patent: Canon RAW Video

[Canon Rumors]

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<p><strong>Canon has filed a patent for RAW video

</strong>“The recording of successive frames of raw sensor data depicting a moving scene is provided. The raw sensor data comprises pixel data for an image sensor having pixels arranged in correspondence to a mosaic of plural different colors in a color filter array.”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.eoshd.com/content/6976/canon-developing-4k-raw-video-format">EOSHD</a> broke it down for people that like english.</p>
<ul>
<li>Designed for compatibility with CF cards</li>
<li>Supports 4K and 2K video (4K is 4096×2048)</li>
<li>Works with Bayer CMOS sensor (like the one in a DSLR)</li>
<li>Sensor output is 12bit</li>
</ul>
<blockquote><p>Although current C300 camera has a 4K sensor, it cannot output a 4K image because most of the pixels are used to reconstruct colour without interpolation (made up pixels in-between).</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Source: [<a href="http://blog.planet5d.com/2012/01/canon-applies-for-patent-on-raw-video/">P5D</a>] via <a href="https://twitter.com/#!/loricnet/statuses/162708161004969984">@Loricnet</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[JR]

Since Patent are filled at least 18 months before becoming public (believe Neuro and a few others mentionned that...) then this mean these features are likely just around the corner and it would seem Canon has been thinking about cinema DSLR for quite some time now....interesting...

 

[lonelywhitelights]

Surely it would have made sense to hold off on the C300 so they could build in this new RAW video capabilities so you can output 4k video. oh well, C300 II will be around the corner I guess, Canon are turning into Apple!

 

[DavidRiesenberg]

Considering the 3-4 years since the last 1Ds and 5D, I don't think we're in danger of that. More so when you take into account that this is just a patent. It might not be implemented in any camera for what we know.

 

[Doodah]

This is DARN cool 'cos I've heard MANY gripes about the lack of video RAW from Canon. Well done!

 

[outsider]

Surely it would have made sense to hold off on the C300 so they could build in this new RAW video capabilities so you can output 4k video. oh well, C300 II will be around the corner I guess, Canon are turning into Apple!

That's right.
If the C300 could do this, then they could not charge you for an upgrade on the C300 II.

It's a business after all.

 

[heron88]

Most exciting news yet. Curious to see how the next few months play out

 

[EYEONE]

Could the C300 not be hacked to provide 4k output?

 

[gene_can_sing]

I think it's really cool that they're doing RAW and trying to keep it on CF cards to keep the work flow good and things Mobile and light. The REDs are large cameras that require a crew to operate. Even their "small" camera the Scarlet (just the body alone with no accessories ie. viewfinder, battery, media) weighs almost 4 times as much as a 5D. No run and gun there.

With that said, it took Canon 5 very long years to do a product refresh (digic 4 to digic 5), so we might be waiting till 2017 for the RAW video implementation.

But it's a nice thought and something to dream about.

 

[NormanBates]

WRT recording on CF cards and comparison with RED, I'll add: current RED cameras record to propietary SSD drives; price right now: between $600 and $1000 for each 64GB
http://www.red.com/store/media

on CF, those same 64GB cost $390 if you go for the super high-end sandisk
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002P3FQT0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=similaar-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B002P3FQT0
or just $160 if you stick to some cheaper option like Transcend:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WE0QN8/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=similaar-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B002WE0QN8

 

[outsider]

Surely it would have made sense to hold off on the C300 so they could build in this new RAW video capabilities so you can output 4k video. oh well, C300 II will be around the corner I guess, Canon are turning into Apple!

No, the design of the C300 is quite deliberate - it is aimed at providing the best IQ possible for 2K video.

This is why there is no interpolation even to generate 2K video.

The design of the C300 means that problems such as moire just will not occur.

The sensor on the C300 is not a bayer type but more of a foveon style where the each pixel collects all three colors but at different depths. The 3 RGB pixels are stacked on top of each other, hence no interpolation (like the bayer does) to produce the final image.

I believe the sensor has 1920 x 1080 (or somewhere around there) spots, each of which capture RGB color info, which is why there's no way that sensor will physically do more then 2k.

 

[Loswr]

The sensor on the C300 is not a bayer type but more of a foveon style where the each pixel collects all three colors but at different depths. The 3 RGB pixels are stacked on top of each other, hence no interpolation (like the bayer does) to produce the final image.

I believe the sensor has 1920 x 1080 (or somewhere around there) spots, each of which capture RGB color info, which is why there's no way that sensor will physically do more then 2k.

Sorry, but that's just plain wrong. Canon lists the sensor features as:

• 8.3 MP sensor
• Shallow Depth of Field
• High Sensitivity/Low Noise
• High signal-to-noise ratio
• Reduced rolling shutter artifacts
• Signal processing equivalent to that of 3-chip RGB systems
• 8 MP Bayer array; no pixel interpolation needed

 

[Lee Jay]

Interesting.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=cKbZAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&dq=raw%20jannard&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=raw%20jannard&f=false

 

[kalmiya]

<sarcasm on>looks like another innovative patent.<sarcasm off>

 

[Axilrod]

Yes! I knew they'd figure something out. Hope this is what's coming to the CDSLR.

I really think aside from really high resolution the CDSLR will require a lot of accessories to do everything a C300 does, hopefully the price will reflect this.

 

[outsider]

The sensor on the C300 is not a bayer type but more of a foveon style where the each pixel collects all three colors but at different depths. The 3 RGB pixels are stacked on top of each other, hence no interpolation (like the bayer does) to produce the final image.

I believe the sensor has 1920 x 1080 (or somewhere around there) spots, each of which capture RGB color info, which is why there's no way that sensor will physically do more then 2k.

Sorry, but that's just plain wrong. Canon lists the sensor features as:

• 8.3 MP sensor
• Shallow Depth of Field
• High Sensitivity/Low Noise
• High signal-to-noise ratio
• Reduced rolling shutter artifacts
• Signal processing equivalent to that of 3-chip RGB systems
• 8 MP Bayer array; no pixel interpolation needed

I stand corrected.
http://nofilmschool.com/2011/11/canon-cinema-eos-c300-4k-sensor-outputs-1080p/
In which case I don't understand how there's no interpolating since the pixel will be an average of several other pixels around it, will it not?
Or is a "pixel" considered (in the C300 case) an array of 2 green, one red and one blue pixel?

 

[seanmcr6]

Could the C300 not be hacked to provide 4k output?

Nope. The limitation on the C300 is the codec chip...it's from the XF300 and it's the limitation. So, without a completely new hardware chip, you are stuck with the current MPEG2, 2K, 4:2:2 output.

 

[seanmcr6]

Interesting.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=cKbZAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&dq=raw%20jannard&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=raw%20jannard&f=false

That IS interesting....reading that looks like RED has a patent on exactly how the C300 works. Of course, I must be wrong cause Canon wouldn't/couldn't do that...

The next 2 years will be very, very interesting for the cinematic capture industry, that's for sure!!

 

[Loswr]

In which case I don't understand how there's no interpolating since the pixel will be an average of several other pixels around it, will it not?
Or is a "pixel" considered (in the C300 case) an array of 2 green, one red and one blue pixel?

The latter. Each 'pixel' is the effectively sum of the four adjacent actual pixles in an RGGB cluster (although they're not read out quite that way).

 

[NormanBates]

this patent seems to be a specific thing for high-fps footage, which would require too much banding with standard RAW movie compression (which RED didn't invent and doesn't own; Cineform RAW, for example, did wavelet RAW compression before RED)

what this Canon thing does is that it records one full frame, then a few subsampled frames, then another full frame, etc - later on, those subsampled frames will be upsampled using additional information from the adjacent full frames (seen from a different perspective: it's like using twixtor, but with the subsampled frames as a very very nice guide)

I certainly don't want that for regular fps footage, but if it's the only way to get 120fps or 240fps, then it's a very nice thing to have