Patent: Large Back Illuminated Sensor

[whatta]

sony just announced some backlit sensor compacts..

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/01/30/Sony_DSC-TX200V_DSC-WX70_DSC-WX50

this part is interesting too:

"In its description of the TX200V's fast AF, Sony suggests that the camera compares out-of-focus images to determine which direction to move the lens to achieve focus, avoiding the camera scanning for focus in the wrong direction. This sounds a lot like phase-detection to us but we're still chasing for more information."

 

[Michael_pfh]

Well, there go the sales on the 1dx .

Yep, just like everyone stopped buying 1D IV's after Canon announced their 120 MP APS-H sensor... :

Of course ;D

Oh no! I did miss that announcement! Otherwise I would never have bought my 1D4...

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Getting higher iso sensors at this point in a mature sensor industry requires innovation. I would expect to see backlit large sensors at some point in the future to get that additional 1/2 stop of sensitivity.

 

[dr croubie]

What do you think the average Joe on the street that walks into a camera store cares about?

actually Canon does trumpet newly patented lens ideas on lenses all the time. remember the big deal they made over Hybrid Image Stabilization (H-IS) on the then-new 100 L Macro. and it's good business to play up all the new technology in whatever item you're selling, it's been demonstrated that consumers are (wrongly) easily impressed by the quantity, not quality, of features and specifications. between two identical items put up for sale, consumers will more often choose the one that has a longer specification list posted.

So that's why tamron lenses come with a 20-30 character long string after each lens?

And don't forget DO, UD, Fluorite, SC, SSC, MC, and the II added to really, really minor updates (i'm looking at you, EFs 18-55 IS II).
I don't care how many UD or Fluorite elements I have in a lens, but if I know lens A is sharper, faster, shorter, and lighter than lens B, and costs a bit more, it's kinda nice to know that more Fluorite elements is probably the reason for it. Then any future lens that comes out touting more Fluorite elements can be presumed to be better than without. Still, it's worth waiting for the reviews to confirm that's the case.
But if lens C comes out with a new or controversial feature, some people steer away as a matter of course, and it may take a few reviews for them to get swayed back (like if a new DO lens comes with non-glowing/swirly bokeh, noone's going to believe it until they see it).

 

[Diko]

Had anyone heard a update on this patent?

So far AFAIK it is not implemented otherwise as already commented everyone would have heard about it.

On the WIKI article it i stated that SONY is already using:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-illuminated_sensor

Stacked CMOS
In January 2012, Sony developed the back-side illuminated sensor further with Stacked CMOS, where the supporting circuitry is moved below the active pixel section, giving another 30% improvement to light capturing capability.[10] This was commercialized by Sony in August 2012 as Exmor RS with resolutions of 13 and 8 effective megapixels.[11] Products are expected in 2013.

I wonder what happens with Canon?
So far as we also know from http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/10/is-canon-eos-1s-the-name-cr1/:

There was also another mention of superior low ISO performance from the sensor. New technology will be introduced in this camera and will set the stage for sensor development over the next 2-3 years.

But does it mean that Canon glass owners have to wait until 2015 until they get a body for mortals with implemented low-light technology for less than $3k?

Additional info on that is also in article: http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/07/canon-3-layer-sensor-foveon-type-patent/

And yet nothing new in late 2012 or 2013...

What do you think. Any new info? Speculations?

 

[MK5GTI]

i believe Sony only implement it on their P&S for now? not on any of their APSC yet.

Looks like if Canon needs to advance their APSC sensor, this is the right move?

 

[sandymandy]

Im not smart. Whats the difference if we had such a sensor technology already used today? Please tell me in easy to understand words.

 

[dr croubie]

Im not smart. Whats the difference if we had such a sensor technology already used today? Please tell me in easy to understand words.

Sensors have pixels. (well, photosites, but pixels is easier to type).
Pixels are little squares on a piece of silicon.
Between these pixels are little wires so all the colours can come off the chip.
So pixels don't take up the entire size of the chip.
But in 'backside' illumination, pixels take up the entire one side of the chip.
The wiring is on the other side of the chip.
So, no wiring between pixels means more space for pixels, means bigger pixels.
Bigger pixels means more DR at low-ISO, and less noise at higher-ISO (with everything else the same, in Sony' Exmore's case it's not the same, they're also much better because other bits of the circuit are also better, and why Sonikon have way better DR at low ISO than canon).

And yes, it's only in P&S for now, the smaller the sensor the more difference this technology makes. But it will make *some* difference at FF, and it's the way of the future (just don't hold your breath).

 

[gmrza]

Getting higher iso sensors at this point in a mature sensor industry requires innovation. I would expect to see backlit large sensors at some point in the future to get that additional 1/2 stop of sensitivity.

I am wondering if this is starting to give some pointers as to what we will see in Canon's next crop of APS-C sensors. I have a funny feeling we may see new technology from Canon in APS-C before it hits full frame - this would mainly be a commercial measure to keep to more cost effective (i.e. cheaper technology) for full frame, and then mature the newer tech in the lower end (APS-C).

regarding another poster's comment - I don't see Canon using different sensor technology in APS-C DSLRs and EOS-M - they will probably use the same sensors, with DSLRs using in-sensor phase detection AF during live view.

 

[sandymandy]

More DR and less noise sounds nice, thanks for explaining it to me. Would it be a big difference? 1/2 stop sensitivity sounds not much to me. Will i even notice it in my photos ?