Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results

ethanz

1DX II
CR Pro
Apr 12, 2016
1,187
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rjbray01 said:
I just got back from a 2 week holiday of tourist destinations in Italy

Saw thousands of Nikon and Canon DSLRs and Mirrorless

Eventually I managed to find a single person with a Sony A7 - the only one of the when holiday

I chatted to the owner - turned out he was a professional who had been "given the camera by Sony to see how I get on with it". He didn't seem at all convinced and seemed happier with his 1DXmk2

It's only anecdotal evidence but Italy was jammed full of tourists and the totally lack of Sony "in the real world" genuinely shocked me

It seems to me that Canon and Nikon have got plenty of time and momentum on their side at least ...

I was in Israel last week on vacation and saw the same thing. Lots of Canons (mostly lower end), some Nikons (I threw dirt at them), and maybe one Sony. I actually saw another person with a 1dx.
 

Talys

Canon R5
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,107
407
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neuroanatomist said:
fingerstein said:
I know a lot a people who are switching.. You might know too...

Anecdotes aren't data. The data — i.e., market share — render your anecdotes meaningless.

I know a lot of people who voted for Hillary Clinton. Yet POTUS is, embarrassingly, of the male gender.

sanj said:
I don't understand why Sony does not deserve credit for making full frame mirrorless way ahead of Canon and why can't we agree that lots of people are buying these cameras who would have bought Canon cameras if the Sony did not exist.

It is obvious that Canon is feeling the pressure why else would they be making mirrorless cameras??

It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders and not in producing technology that will help the cause of photography.

Sure, they do. Sony absolutely deserves credit for pioneering full frame mirrorless cameras. On the other hand, they deserve criticism for releasing products that are so unfinished that they must release revisions in less than 2 years for flagship cameras.

Canon's 5D, 5D2, 5D3, and 5DIV cameras all seem like pretty substantial leaps from the prior camera and each one feels like a solid, working professional's tool, at it's initial release.

Sony's A7, A7M2, A7M3 all feel like a work in progress. It feels like you're paying to be an early beta tester, with Mark 3 being the first one that is "almost ready for prime time".

If Canon's first professional full-frame mirrorless product works like a professional's tool, I'd rather buy that, than the 3-4 generations of Sony cameras to get there. If it's not, I will criticize the Canon models also. But for people who have extra disposable income and like being a part of the process of "getting there", I'm happy for them. For me, it would be like buying three to four flagship video cards before I could play my video game smoothly -- no thanks, I'll be patient and wait til stuff is ironed out.

I do get the counter-argument for real hobbyists who love their Sony's: "This is so cool, I'll put up with the bugs, limitations, and caveats." But for me, every Sony FF MILC up to A7R2 just got in the way of photography; every camera since A9 has been significantly better, and is the first that I would consider worth buying -- but they still feel unfinished.

I do not agree that people would be just blindly buying Canon cameras if Sony did not make MILCs. I think Sony is adding to the pie, which is a good thing. I mean, look: I'm happy with my Canon DSLRs. They're mature cameras that do everything I want. I don't need another camera body, and I'm not eager to just spend $2,000 - $3,000 just to have another gadget.

Canon can keep iterating; it doesn't mean I'll necessarily buy a camera unless one of mine gets damaged or wears out, or unless the new one offers something I really want.
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
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sanj said:
I don't understand why Sony does not deserve credit for making full frame mirrorless way ahead of Canon and why can't we agree that lots of people are buying these cameras who would have bought Canon cameras if the Sony did not exist.

Your first statement is true and Sony should and does get credit for that.

The second statement is something that no one on this forum has access to the information to know. We simply cannot know if the customers are coming from Canon's base of customers, or from somewhere else. What creates arguments here is that too many people assume that all or most of these customers represent lost sales for Canon, and the objective evidence we have (sales figures, market share, etc.) do not indicate that is the case.

It is also a known fact that full-frame cameras as a whole do not represent the bulk of the DSLR market. Too many people overstate the importance of full frame mirrorless simply because that is what they happen to be interested in.

sanj said:
It is obvious that Canon is feeling the pressure why else would they be making mirrorless cameras??

That's a reasonable assumption, although we do not know for sure.

sanj said:
It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders and not in producing technology that will help the cause of photography.

Those who say that have a twisted view of how business works. A company can only make money if it provides goods or services that people want and need. Companies are not charities, but they would be idiots to ignore ignore the demands of the marketplace.

Your statement would be more accurate if it read: It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders , so that it can stay in business and earn enough profits to pay its employees and suppliers and earn a reasonable return for investors, so that investors choose to buy its stock, rather than choose other companies. and not in Producing technology that will help the cause of photography, is important if there are customers who are willing to pay for that technology at a price that will give the company a reasonable return on its investment, so the company can stay in business and continue to invest in additional technology that will help the cause of photography.
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
sanj said:
I don't understand why Sony does not deserve credit for making full frame mirrorless way ahead of Canon and why can't we agree that lots of people are buying these cameras who would have bought Canon cameras if the Sony did not exist.

they may have purchased Olympus, fuji or others. usually if you look on DPR, the mirrorless fans have a TON of mirrorless camera bodies from multiple manufacturers.

Also, Sony didn't start full frame mirrorless btw.
 

gmon750

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Jan 30, 2015
128
82
unfocused said:
I'll leave it to those who are more capable to do the in-depth analysis, but once again, it seems that the cameras and features that many people on this forum complain about are the cameras and features that are driving profitability.

It's like airline tickets. First-class gets all the glory, but it's the low-end coach seats that are the bread & butter of the industry.
 

gmon750

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Jan 30, 2015
128
82
KirkD said:
They will also continue to drop until Canon can a) catch up to Sony's full frame mirrorless break-away and b) be more competitive with Sigma's steady stream of Art series lenses.

The #1 seller of mirrorless cameras happens to be Canon - right now.
 

Valvebounce

EOS R5
CR Pro
Apr 3, 2013
4,556
444
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Isle of Wight
Hi Folks.
I have irrefutable evidence that people are leaving Canon and buying Sony, at the LCE camera show in Southampton today I watched part of a Sony lecture, part of a conversation during the Q&A section,
S = Sony educator, A = person in audience.

S “Who shoots Sony?”
A ”I do.”
S ”What do you have and for how long?”
A “A7III all of today, I switched systems here.”
S “Do you still use some of your old glass?”
A “No I swapped everything!”
S “That was brave! I have had my A7Something for a while now and I still use my older Sony as my main camera, I won’t use the new one for my main camera yet, too many menu options to get used to and I’m not comfortable that I have mastered them to a level where I trust myself not to make a mistake!” :eek: :eek: :eek:

This is not a direct quote, but paraphrased for brevity and because I can’t remember the minutia of the discussion.

Edit.
Ok, no reaction!
I can also verify that two people I overheard had tried Sony bodies with adapted lenses and did not like the Sony so had gone back to the native bodies for their lenses! :D 1 move to Sony, 2 leaving Sony but those body sales still count to Sony, I guess two somebodies got cheap low mileage Sony bodies!
End edit.

Cheers, Graham.