Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results

Woody

EOS R
Jul 20, 2010
1,157
82
Using Canon's FY (Apr 2017 to Mar 2018) numbers, we have:
- total worldwide DILC shipment from CIPA = 11,407,112
- Canon's worldwide DILC shipment = 5.5 mil
- so Canon's market share in this period = 48%

Pretty amazing.
 

rjbray01

Canon Forever
Jan 19, 2017
133
75
I just got back from a 2 week holiday of tourist destinations in Italy

Saw thousands of Nikon and Canon DSLRs and Mirrorless

Eventually I managed to find a single person with a Sony A7 - the only one of the when holiday

I chatted to the owner - turned out he was a professional who had been "given the camera by Sony to see how I get on with it". He didn't seem at all convinced and seemed happier with his 1DXmk2

It's only anecdotal evidence but Italy was jammed full of tourists and the totally lack of Sony "in the real world" genuinely shocked me

It seems to me that Canon and Nikon have got plenty of time and momentum on their side at least ...
 

Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,318
505
KirkD said:
Given the market analysts graphs, Sony will become #1 in the world by the end of the first quarter 2019 UNLESS Canon really ups their FF mirrorless game.

Canon 50% of the market share, Sony 30-ish%. Canon droppiong 2% per year, Sony increasing 11% per year.
Sony to be #1 by this time next year?
Please show the the analyst's analysis that you refer to.
 

kkamena

I'm New Here
Feb 15, 2018
11
5
Texas
KirkD said:
Your failure to point to a Canon full frame mirrorless camera is affirmation of how Canon has fallen behind Sony in that category. Furthermore, Canon sales dropped by 2% last year and another 1.2% in this first quarter. In the same time period, Sony sales increased by 11%. Sony is now the #2 Camera manufacturer, pulling ahead of Nikon and topped only by Canon. Analysts are forecasting 2018 as Given the market analysts graphs, Sony will become #1 in the world by the end of the first quarter 2019 UNLESS Canon really ups their FF mirrorless game. As far as low end cameras go, Canon is doing well, but at the semi-pro level, the absence of a FF mirrorless that can even begin to match Sony's A7III fairly screams "catch up".


Do you have the information for the "Analysts are forecasting 2018 as Given the market analysts graphs"? I am curious because the digital camera market is an amazing case study that I like to follow (I am a business nerd that likes taking photos) and what you are saying kind of goes against most of the data out there as just look at the past posts on this site. Even if Sony was #1 in MILC (which they are not Canon is), that market space is about 1/2 the size of DSLR market space (which Canon has an overwhelming majority in. Canon's 2% decrease in sales is less then the contracting of ILC cameras meaning the are gaining market share so.... they are number 1 with more market share now than a year ago.

What I truly find amazing is how well Canon knows the market. the fact that they made no adjustments to year end projections show that everything is going right in line with their business plan, generally good thing.
 

tmc784

Just press down the shutter.
Apr 1, 2018
81
24
I wish there is a FF ( don't care mirrorless or mirror ) camera with 50MP, IBIS, 4K video come on market 2018.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,075
356
Vancouver, BC
Mikehit said:
KirkD said:
Given the market analysts graphs, Sony will become #1 in the world by the end of the first quarter 2019 UNLESS Canon really ups their FF mirrorless game.

Canon 50% of the market share, Sony 30-ish%. Canon droppiong 2% per year, Sony increasing 11% per year.
Sony to be #1 by this time next year?
Please show the the analyst's analysis that you refer to.

Sentences beginning with "Analysts show" bear as much weight as those qualified by, "Some people say" 8)

But anyways, comparing the Canon numbers to Sony... Want some numbers? Here, take a look at Sony sales, worldwide, by business segment:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/297533/sony-sales-worldwide-by-business-segment/

Imaging Products & Solutions is the green wedge. In billions of $USD
2012 - 7.16
2013 - 7.77
2014 - 7.20
2015 - 6.00
2016 - 6.29
2017 - 5.18

WAIT. Imaging dropped by 17%? But I thought they were going to take over the world. Surely this is Fake News. What is this BS website anyways. Why don't we go to the source?

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/stock/shareholders_meeting/Meeting100/100_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf

Page 6 from Sony. Imaging (in millions of Yen), excluding intersegment:
2015 - 696.89
2016 - 677.23
2017 - 571.50

No, that's because it's a mix of other stuff. I mean, imaging is printers and all sorts of other things. FAKE NEWS.

So let's go to Page 10, and look at the breakdown of Imaging - Still and Video Cameras (millions of Yen):

2015 - 478,099
2016 - 428,777
2017 - 351,834

So, Sony, between 2016 and 2017 - had an 18% year over year drop in operating revenue to external customers of still and video cameras. Well, I guess the drop was all in the video cameras, because some people analysts say that the mirrorless full frame market is worth trillions of dollars and will rule the world economy by 2025. Because, some analysts say, a US$3,000 camera kit (FF body + lens) that needs a body refresh every 18 or so months is where the money is (and you thought lightroom subscriptions were expensive).
 

Woody

EOS R
Jul 20, 2010
1,157
82
Talys said:
So, Sony, between 2016 and 2017 - had an 18% year over year drop in operating revenue to external customers of still and video cameras. Well, I guess the drop was all in the video cameras, because some people analysts say that the mirrorless full frame market is worth trillions of dollars and will rule the world economy by 2025.

Pretty funny. ;D

But I am surprised by Sony's numbers. Perhaps, like Samsung, they may pull out of the digital camera market by 2020? They should just focus on what they do best: sensor production for the world.
 

Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,318
505
Woody said:
Talys said:
So, Sony, between 2016 and 2017 - had an 18% year over year drop in operating revenue to external customers of still and video cameras. Well, I guess the drop was all in the video cameras, because some people analysts say that the mirrorless full frame market is worth trillions of dollars and will rule the world economy by 2025.

Pretty funny. ;D

But I am surprised by Sony's numbers. Perhaps, like Samsung, they may pull out of the digital camera market by 2020? They should just focus on what they do best: sensor production for the world.
And with the aggressive pricing of the latest A7 models it will be interesting to see what that does to their revenue.
 

woodman411

EOS 90D
Aug 1, 2017
150
191
USA
Mikehit said:
Woody said:
Talys said:
So, Sony, between 2016 and 2017 - had an 18% year over year drop in operating revenue to external customers of still and video cameras. Well, I guess the drop was all in the video cameras, because some people analysts say that the mirrorless full frame market is worth trillions of dollars and will rule the world economy by 2025.

Pretty funny. ;D

But I am surprised by Sony's numbers. Perhaps, like Samsung, they may pull out of the digital camera market by 2020? They should just focus on what they do best: sensor production for the world.
And with the aggressive pricing of the latest A7 models it will be interesting to see what that does to their revenue.

Sony has to aggressively price their bodies because their lenses are so expensive - $2200 for the mainstay 24-70 f/2.8, and a whopping $2600 for the 70-200 f/2.8. Maybe that's where the profits are, because that's significantly more than Canon, and Canon's versions are better.
 

fingerstein

EOS M6 Mark II
Sep 25, 2016
62
22
Probably Canon an Nikon are still the best brands in the minds of regular people. But there are a lot of bad reviews concerning Canon's cameras (between 1500-3000$). For professional photographers/videographers 1DX was there for a long time as a perfect hybrid camera. But a big disappointment where 6D2 and 5D4. Maybe even the last mirrorless M50 might be considered "a fail". I know a lot a people who are switching.. You might know too... So maybe the start was slow and the competition still need to perform in the field of their brand's power. These YouTube evangelists might just start changing things. I hope they will. Competition is always good.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
24,653
2,185
fingerstein said:
I know a lot a people who are switching.. You might know too...

Anecdotes aren't data. The data — i.e., market share — render your anecdotes meaningless.
 

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,825
972
UK
www.flickr.com
KirkD said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
Still, overall, camera sales continue to drop and will probably keep on dropping as camera phones produce a image good enough for 99% of photographers.
They will also continue to drop until Canon can a) catch up to Sony's full frame mirrorless break-away and b) be more competitive with Sigma's steady stream of Art series lenses.

This is a joke, right?
 

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,825
972
UK
www.flickr.com
fingerstein said:
Probably Canon an Nikon are still the best brands in the minds of regular people. But there are a lot of bad reviews concerning Canon's cameras (between 1500-3000$). For professional photographers/videographers 1DX was there for a long time as a perfect hybrid camera. But a big disappointment where 6D2 and 5D4. Maybe even the last mirrorless M50 might be considered "a fail". I know a lot a people who are switching.. You might know too... So maybe the start was slow and the competition still need to perform in the field of their brand's power. These YouTube evangelists might just start changing things. I hope they will. Competition is always good.

::) ::) ::)
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
Mikehit said:
Woody said:
Talys said:
So, Sony, between 2016 and 2017 - had an 18% year over year drop in operating revenue to external customers of still and video cameras. Well, I guess the drop was all in the video cameras, because some people analysts say that the mirrorless full frame market is worth trillions of dollars and will rule the world economy by 2025.

Pretty funny. ;D

But I am surprised by Sony's numbers. Perhaps, like Samsung, they may pull out of the digital camera market by 2020? They should just focus on what they do best: sensor production for the world.
And with the aggressive pricing of the latest A7 models it will be interesting to see what that does to their revenue.

We really don't know whether Sony is making money on their high end cameras when front ends costs are considered. They have generated a big internet presence for their fullframe ILC's, but how is that translating into camera sales and effect on the bottom line? At some point, cost management may become a big issue for Sony's camera business, just as it has for other Sony projects over the years.
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
scyrene said:
KirkD said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
Still, overall, camera sales continue to drop and will probably keep on dropping as camera phones produce a image good enough for 99% of photographers.
They will also continue to drop until Canon can a) catch up to Sony's full frame mirrorless break-away and b) be more competitive with Sigma's steady stream of Art series lenses.

This is a joke, right?

Doubt that it is a joke. More likely another internet buzzard channeling DPR-driven cyber reality.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
24,653
2,185
scyrene said:
KirkD said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
Still, overall, camera sales continue to drop and will probably keep on dropping as camera phones produce a image good enough for 99% of photographers.
They will also continue to drop until Canon can a) catch up to Sony's full frame mirrorless break-away and b) be more competitive with Sigma's steady stream of Art series lenses.

This is a joke, right?

It's the alternate reality that results from one too many punchlines to the head.
 

Random Orbits

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 14, 2012
2,432
303
Mikehit said:
Woody said:
Talys said:
So, Sony, between 2016 and 2017 - had an 18% year over year drop in operating revenue to external customers of still and video cameras. Well, I guess the drop was all in the video cameras, because some people analysts say that the mirrorless full frame market is worth trillions of dollars and will rule the world economy by 2025.

Pretty funny. ;D

But I am surprised by Sony's numbers. Perhaps, like Samsung, they may pull out of the digital camera market by 2020? They should just focus on what they do best: sensor production for the world.
And with the aggressive pricing of the latest A7 models it will be interesting to see what that does to their revenue.

Didn't Sony publish their AF protocols? Without it, lens makes (Ziess and others) would not have introduced AF lenses into the ecosystem and Sony early would have had a tough time penetrating the market because of their limited lens ecosystem. But now, Sony has to compete more on the lens side for performance because they don't have a advantage in AF like Canon and Nikon do. It might be one reason why they must release a new body every 2 years.
 

sanj

EOS R5
Jan 22, 2012
3,693
563
I don't understand why Sony does not deserve credit for making full frame mirrorless way ahead of Canon and why can't we agree that lots of people are buying these cameras who would have bought Canon cameras if the Sony did not exist.

It is obvious that Canon is feeling the pressure why else would they be making mirrorless cameras??

It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders and not in producing technology that will help the cause of photography.
 

Adelino

EOS RP
Jan 21, 2015
372
244
sanj said:
It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders and not in producing technology that will help the cause of photography.

It's a business not a photography charity. Would you invest in a business where the point of existence was to better any cause? I do contribute to charity but not through investments. Canon, Nikon, Sony would invest in coffee or rockets or beauty products if they had expertise to make money. Remember this article is discussing financial results and whether you like the results or not, Canon are making money in an increasingly difficult and shrinking market.
 

ethanz

1DX II
CR Pro
Apr 12, 2016
1,172
457
ethanzentz.com
Adelino said:
Remember this article is discussing financial results and whether you like the results or not, Canon are making money in an increasingly difficult and shrinking market.

That is the important thing. Canon is making money, at an increasing rate, while others apparently are not doing as well.
 
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