Patent: Canon shows off optical formulas for APS-C RF mount kit lenses

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
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It is a matter of cost and size, not all (me included) make money from their photography or want to carry such an expensive equipment around in the city. These are separate markets.
But many on this forum would say that is exactly what the M system is for. Many of those wishing for an R7 crop sensor believe it will be significantly cheaper than the R5, but have most of the features of the R3 or R1. I'm simply suggesting that such a camera may not be as affordable as people wish.
 
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dilbert

EOS 90D
Aug 12, 2010
113
92
How do these lenses compare in size with the EOS-M counterparts? Same size? Smaller? Double the size?
 
But many on this forum would say that is exactly what the M system is for. Many of those wishing for an R7 crop sensor believe it will be significantly cheaper than the R5, but have most of the features of the R3 or R1. I'm simply suggesting that such a camera may not be as affordable as people wish.
Yes, but to me M feels like a dead end. And there is no M camera with IBIS, 24-32 Mpix sensor and EVF, will there ever be? I also would like to be able to use some RF lenses, there are some that look interesting also on a crop body. Why would it be so much more expensive than a 90D or 7D (which were my alternatives before I decided to go all mirrorless), add $500 for IBIS. I am also in the Sony system but I do not like the ergonomics and want to switch back to Canon, otherwise they have crop cameras with EVF, IBIS and a much more reasonable price than a R5 (which would be ideal disregarding the price).
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
498
465
I am surprised how many people think there will be an RF-S mount when neither Sony nor Nikon has separate mounts for APS-C.
For a smaller mount stick with EF-S or EF-M.
The EF-M mount is nearly 1mm larger than Sony E mount with the same flange to focal plane distance, so Canon clearly already has that "RF-s" mount .
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
989
786
Yes, but to me M feels like a dead end. And there is no M camera with IBIS, 24-32 Mpix sensor and EVF, will there ever be?
Canon has a patent that could put IBIS in a small M camera so now would be a great time to announce one.
They already have the 24-32 MP with EVF covered.
 
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Antono Refa

EOS R
Mar 26, 2014
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It's the old discussion repeated again and again on these comment threads and all photography forums.
But for someone shooting both fullframe and crop, I understand demand is considerable smaller for a crop camera when high-res fullframe cameras has a crop mode.
But I'm not a fullframe user. I want a "cheap", compact and light system, and preferable more light and compact than my current APS-C DSLR system. Yes, you can mount cheaper, lighter and smaller (EF-S) lenses using crop-mode on an R5, but the price of an R5 is way beyond what I ever can justify paying for a camera. If the R6 was a 20megapixel crop-camera though, I would probably be shooting mirrorless now...
And the EOS-M doesn't meet your needs?

One of the reasons EOS-M cameras are smaller is the smaller throat diameter. The difference between 7D and 90D is the former appeals to photographers who use white super teles, so camera size isn't that important.
 

Stig Nygaard

7DII, 11 lenses and a G5XII
CR Pro
Jul 10, 2013
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And the EOS-M doesn't meet your needs?

One of the reasons EOS-M cameras are smaller is the smaller throat diameter.
7DII is a large body, but it is not about camera size. It is about size and weight of a complete system and carry around kit. Which means it is in practice about lenses when it comes to size and weight. And it is very much about handling when it comes to body. I tried stepping a model down to 90D to see if never technology could compete with my 7DII, but no. 7DII is the best fit when it comes to handling (and some other features like AF configurability and options which 90D couldn't compete with). EOS-M has nothing to offer like the 7DII.

I'm an amateur, but I guess still an advanced user (with 11 lenses, including teles for action/wildlife) who wants a "pro" body. As I said in another comment, EF-M has never had anything to offer catching my eye. Neither when it comes to bodies, nor when it comes to lenses.

Man, I'm repeating myself. But I guess I want a cheaper and more handy APS-C version of a fullframe Pro-kit. For me to be happy with a mirrorless system, the camera probably needs to have some of the best AF-system and EVF available. And when I choose my future mirrorless camera/system, I choose my system for the next 20-30 years (or the rest of my active "photography-life"). And it got to be a system where I expect new development and exciting things will continue happening all the years. If continuing with Canon, that definitely means it has to be RF mount.
 
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John Wilde

EOS 90D
Jan 2, 2021
114
200
Canon has a nice 32.5 MP APS-C sensor that's underutilized. They should put that in some new model.

Unfortunately, in their financial documents, Canon doesn't even acknowledge the existence of M, or APS-C anything.
 

AJ

EOS RP
Sep 11, 2010
730
140
Blech. Those are crummy focal length / fstop ranges. With EF-S, Canon managed a 15-85/3.5-5.6 and Sigma produced a 17-70/2.8-4. Surely they can produce something more exciting/useful for RF or M, whatever these patents are meant for?
 

masterpix

EOS RP
Jun 29, 2016
283
198
Ok, big question, why APS-C R camera at all? I understand that crop sensor gives 1.6X focal length, but the R5 had 45MP so you can crop from it already. You want the 100-500mm to be 160-800mm lens (which is the only reason I can think about APS-C advantage), there are those CAT lenses on the way 800,1200...

In mirrorless, you don't have the mirror to occupy the space between the lens and the sensor, so in both FF and APS-C the sensor will be at the same place. And therefore the RS and R lenses wil have similar "back side", so what is the benefit in having specific RS lens?

Does Canon going to replicate the DX, DXX, DXXX, DXXXX hierarchy and create RX, RXX, RXXX... line up. That will certainly "kill" the M line.as it did to the D line..
 

SnowMiku

EOS M6 Mark II
Oct 4, 2020
91
57
Ok, big question, why APS-C R camera at all? I understand that crop sensor gives 1.6X focal length, but the R5 had 45MP so you can crop from it already.
The answer is cost, lots of APS-C users do not want to pay for an R5 since it's more then what they need. Also, the 90D/M6 II sensor is 32MP which may give an advantage in some situations over the R5 cropped 17MP.
 
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Ruined

EOS R
Aug 22, 2013
930
59
There is zero practical use or purpose for an RF-S mount. If you want smaller and cheaper EF-M.

If it does come to fruition the sole purpose of RF-S will be to sell people a starter cheaper and less capable camera which they can still buy regular RF lenses for - and eventually try to get them to upgrade to an R6 to better use the RF lenses they bought.

Marketing/upsell tactic would be this mounts only use case
 
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Stig Nygaard

7DII, 11 lenses and a G5XII
CR Pro
Jul 10, 2013
120
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Copenhagen
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The answer is cost, lots of APS-C users do not want to pay for an R5 since it's more then what they need.
Exactly (I'm never gonna pay the price of an R5 for a camera).
But also besides the modest megapixels in crop-mode, R5 doesn't shot faster than 6fps when shooting 14bit RAW-format (At least as far as I know this limitation also extends to crop-mode?). A crop-camera will do way better. In fact even the 7 years old 7DII does approx. 10fps RAW at full bit depth.
 
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AJ

EOS RP
Sep 11, 2010
730
140
The answer is cost, lots of APS-C users do not want to pay for an R5 since it's more then what they need.
Yes indeed, but it's not just the cost of the camera body. It's also the cost of lenses. Lenses like 18-55, 55-250, and 10-18 are bargains. For example, the 10-18 can be had for $300, while RF ultrawides currently are an expensive proposition.
I recently picked up a Tokina 14-20mm f/2 and have been using it for astrophotography. It's tack-sharp and coma-free, and I've had a lot of fun with it. The lens is not without its foibles, but at 369 USD I think I got a bargain.