PetaPixel poops on the 6D2 sensor

[Pippan]

It's interesting in that something seems to have changed in the Canon metering values, all my old cameras underexposed and had a ton of highlight headroom because of that, my new cameras are overexposing cutting highlight headroom but they have much greater capacity to lift shadows.

Here is a sample of my testing image. With this I can calibrate a metering offset and work out how under and over I can expose and retain detail. First image as metered, second over exposed three stops and then pulled three stops.

Thanks again for taking the time to explain your thoughts on these things, Private. In my limited experience I'd agree with your assessment that Canon's metering has changed and maybe Secure's post about metering 'in colour' is why. My 80D does seem to often meter higher than my 100D, and often clips too many highlights for my liking if not EC adjusted. Ironic really when there's less need to keep shadows as light as possible. That's why I'm teaching myself to use M when I have those few seconds to spot meter and adjust--it's more accurate (but of course harder to keep up with changing light) and I can control whether and how much to clip.

In your images I'm interested that the faces in the first image have much richer colour than in the second. Was there any clipping in the second before you pulled it back or is it that some colour is lost when it's exposed too close to the edge of clipping (not what I'd have thought)?

 

[lgn55063]

Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

I have a Canon 70D and have been looking for a light weight full frame to be my second camera. I am a "seenager" with some disabilities, a moderate income and am about to retire. I do not have the means to buy the Canon 5DMarkIV. I really was looking forward to purchasing the Canon 6DMarkII as my solution to getting my first full frame camera due to the lower weight and better price range. In reading the many reviews regarding the new Canon 6DMarkII, I decided to go with one that I have felt more comfortable with since becoming a more than just an intermediate amateur photographer, DPREVIEW. One particular review caught my attention. I am not sure if this is allowed on this site, but here is the link:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0227421206/should-i-buy-a-canon-eos-6d-mark-ii?slide=3

This has been the most comprehensive and the most, in my opinion, unbiased review I have read.
My genre are children and ballroom dancing. Two very difficult to photograph genres due to moving actions, low light situations and the need to have a heavier zoom lens in order to capture the right shot.
I had heard "rumors" that Canon was building the 6DMarkII to be a somewhat "full frame Canon 80D" which can be used for sports and low light situations and was lighter in weight than the 5D line. I was looking forward to purchasing this camera. This did not turn out as I hoped. By the graphic comparisons shown on the DPreview, I will now have to wait longer for a full frame camera. I have not ruled out going with the 5DMarkIII. I now also have to rethink my purchasing of a heavier zoom lens. I am disappointed that after waiting a long while and all the hoopla about this camera, it's turned out to be a camera for hikers who take wonderful landscape pictures and portrait camera.

 

[SecureGSM]

Re: Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

Hello,

just a couple of point I would like to clarify first:

1. you are a seeenager with some health issues and looking to shoot with 2 DSLR cameras with a "heavier zoom" lenses attached.
2. you need a realible FF DSLR with excellent LOW LIGHT capabilities, reliable and responsive AF to shoot in low light and your genre is ".. children and ballroom dancing. Two very difficult to photograph genres due to moving actions, low light situations and the need to have a heavier zoom lens in order to capture the right shot..."
3. you are also on a somewhat limited budget.

ok.
1. shooting 2 DSLR bodies with 2 heavy zoom lenses attached could posses some serious chalenges as we are talking 2 x 2.5 kg rigs hanging of your hips or shoulders depending on your setup. It could be quite a challenge. I am speaking from personal experience shooting 2 x 6D bodies with 24-70 and 70-200 zoom lenses attached.
Can you get away shooting a single FF body with 70-200 zoom lns attached? can you hold 2.5kg rig for extended period of time? 5 minutes?
2. Canon 6D II bodies are excellent camera for the low light situation! that seems to be what you are looking for.
Shots taken at ISO 3200 come out are very clean.
AF performance is very adequate for your genre. you will be likely shooting in ZONE AF mode and 45 AF points is more than enough shooting children and ballroom dancing. Tilty Flippy screen is another God's send for low angle or over heads shots. I do not see how 6D II is a wrong camera for you. In fact it perfect for your applications.
3. Would you consider selling you 70D body to finace 6D II purchase? that would certainly help to offset the cost of the new body and heavy zoom lenses you are also planning to obtaing.
from experience shooting in your genre, you can perfectly get away with 2 lenses only: 24-70 F2.8 and 70-200 F2.8. Tamron 24-70 VC and 70-200 VC may be the lenses you are after. These lenses are capable of delivering a very nice image quality and are much cheaper than similar lenses made by Canon.
I do not see 5D III body being an advantage over 6D II body for your applications. in fact, lighter 6D II body with tilty flippy screen and improved RGB metering may serve your better than the heavier and larger 5D III.

I have a Canon 70D and have been looking for a light weight full frame to be my second camera. I am a "seenager" with some disabilities, a moderate income and am about to retire. I do not have the means to buy the Canon 5DMarkIV. I really was looking forward to purchasing the Canon 6DMarkII as my solution to getting my first full frame camera due to the lower weight and better price range. In reading the many reviews regarding the new Canon 6DMarkII, I decided to go with one that I have felt more comfortable with since becoming a more than just an intermediate amateur photographer, DPREVIEW. One particular review caught my attention. I am not sure if this is allowed on this site, but here is the link:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0227421206/should-i-buy-a-canon-eos-6d-mark-ii?slide=3

This has been the most comprehensive and the most, in my opinion, unbiased review I have read.
My genre are children and ballroom dancing. Two very difficult to photograph genres due to moving actions, low light situations and the need to have a heavier zoom lens in order to capture the right shot.
I had heard "rumors" that Canon was building the 6DMarkII to be a somewhat "full frame Canon 80D" which can be used for sports and low light situations and was lighter in weight than the 5D line. I was looking forward to purchasing this camera. This did not turn out as I hoped. By the graphic comparisons shown on the DPreview, I will now have to wait longer for a full frame camera. I have not ruled out going with the 5DMarkIII. I now also have to rethink my purchasing of a heavier zoom lens. I am disappointed that after waiting a long while and all the hoopla about this camera, it's turned out to be a camera for hikers who take wonderful landscape pictures and portrait camera.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

Hello,

just a couple of point I would like to clarify first:...
...I do not see 5D III body being an advantage over 6D II body for your applications. in fact, lighter 6D II body with tilty flippy screen and improved RGB metering may serve your better than the heavier and larger 5D III.

I have a Canon 70D and have been looking for a light weight full frame to be my second camera...
I had heard "rumors" that Canon was building the 6DMarkII to be a somewhat "full frame Canon 80D" which can be used for sports and low light situations and was lighter in weight than the 5D line. I was looking forward to purchasing this camera. This did not turn out as I hoped. By the graphic comparisons shown on the DPreview, I will now have to wait longer for a full frame camera... I am disappointed that after waiting a long while and all the hoopla about this camera, it's turned out to be a camera for hikers who take wonderful landscape pictures and portrait camera.

Secure's comments are spot on.

I'm perplexed by Ign55063's conclusions.

The 6DII is indeed a "full frame Canon 80D" with a different sensor. At this point we really don't know much about how the new sensor will perform in real world situations, but it is certainly reasonable to expect that it will perform better than the 80D at higher ISOs– it certainly won't be worse.

The only full-frame camera that is going to perform much better for "sports and low-light situations" would be the 1DX II, which is not a camera for anyone limited by ability to carry a heavy load (I know, I am 63 and believe me, the 1DX II gets damn heavy, especially when paired with a 70-200mm lens for indoor sports or a 100-400 for outdoors.)

I have one suggestion -- pick up a carbon fiber monopod. A monopod is light and unobtrusive. It will help support the heavier lenses that you need for low light, without adding too much bulk.

 

[privatebydesign]

Private,

If I may, Sir:

new mettering sensors in 5D IV or 80D is RGB type. now mettering sensor sees in colour, if you will.
old cameras were underexposing whites by around 2.8* stops and over exposing black by approx. 2.8* stops, as metering system treated all colors and levels as 18% grey. hence if I was spot mettering for the hilghlights with my trusty 6D, in order to place highlights right at the right edge of the histogram, I would typically increase exposure levels by +2.5 EV.
it turns out that modern RBG mettering system is mich smarter these days and no longer under or over expose buy such a large amount. I had only limited time to play with 5D IV but noticed that to ETTR, I needed only +0.7EV EC for spot metered highlights. blinkies were coming up on the lcd screen for jpgs at +0.5 EV level but really I was able to push RAW another +0.5EV. Again, I have very limited experience with 5D IV therefore all numbers are not exact.

*** -Usable DR of 6D sensor is 5.8 EV ( full is 9.8 EV, but less safety margins: 5.8EV only). old metering system treated spot metered highlights as mid greys and placed them right in the centre of the historgram: 5.8EV / 2 = 2.9EV shift on 6D, (2.7-2.8) EV shift on 5D III.

Hi Pippan,

Yes I wasn't very clear. 3 stops over is about ideal for good tonal retention in the highlights, depending on where your meter is actually metering. Mine was +2/8 so all my images were overexposed if I went by the meter.

It's interesting in that something seems to have changed in the Canon metering values, all my old cameras underexposed and had a ton of highlight headroom because of that, my new cameras are overexposing cutting highlight headroom but they have much greater capacity to lift shadows.

Personally I make a little test image and dial in my meters and then progressively over and under expose, then pull all those images into LightRoom and see what I am happy doing, what I can save and can't save etc etc. Certainly my latest cameras, even though I have the ability, and have, adjusted the meter offset, do not need an ETTR technique whereas my old ones very much did, I could easily pull over 3 stops down in the highlights, now, not so much but I have a lot more lower end to play with so I tend to expose to the offset meter or lower for midtones.

Here is a sample of my testing image. With this I can calibrate a metering offset and work out how under and over I can expose and retain detail. First image as metered, second over exposed three stops and then pulled three stops.

Great talk, thanks.

It's a good idea, but I am conducting my comparisons from defocused Kodak grey cards so I don't understand how color could come into the metering. But whatever it is, and for sure the color metering must be changing something in most if not all images, at least I am not alone in noticing this trend to over expose rather than previous cameras that tended to under expose.

I wish they'd document this stuff so we didn't all have to learn it on the fly! :

It's interesting in that something seems to have changed in the Canon metering values, all my old cameras underexposed and had a ton of highlight headroom because of that, my new cameras are overexposing cutting highlight headroom but they have much greater capacity to lift shadows.

Here is a sample of my testing image. With this I can calibrate a metering offset and work out how under and over I can expose and retain detail. First image as metered, second over exposed three stops and then pulled three stops.

Thanks again for taking the time to explain your thoughts on these things, Private. In my limited experience I'd agree with your assessment that Canon's metering has changed and maybe Secure's post about metering 'in colour' is why. My 80D does seem to often meter higher than my 100D, and often clips too many highlights for my liking if not EC adjusted. Ironic really when there's less need to keep shadows as light as possible. That's why I'm teaching myself to use M when I have those few seconds to spot meter and adjust--it's more accurate (but of course harder to keep up with changing light) and I can control whether and how much to clip.

In your images I'm interested that the faces in the first image have much richer colour than in the second. Was there any clipping in the second before you pulled it back or is it that some colour is lost when it's exposed too close to the edge of clipping (not what I'd have thought)?

Agree, my two most used modes are Av with constant EC with the thumbwheel, and M with constant attention to the metering scale in the viewfinder.

As for the test images, yes I just did a straight exposure pull, I normally find if the highs had good color I need to finesse them with vibrance and/or highlights tonal adjustments as well as the straight pull. I think because of the tone curve/gamma correction that is applied to the RAW file the two files can never be exactly the same with just a straight exposure pull, the higher parts won't come down as much as the less over exposed parts.

We had another interested thread about this color difference in correctly exposed vs over exposed and pulled tonality and color. I believe the main issue with pulling images is if you apply a camera profile, and you have to even if you don't know it, the three channels are given different curves so if you apply a set numeric value adjustment to all three the relationship between them changes, if you start out with that different value then you get the same issue in reverse.

 

[hbr]

Re: Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

Hello,

just a couple of point I would like to clarify first:

1. you are a seeenager with some health issues and looking to shoot with 2 DSLR cameras with a "heavier zoom" lenses attached.
2. you need a realible FF DSLR with excellent LOW LIGHT capabilities, reliable and responsive AF to shoot in low light and your genre is ".. children and ballroom dancing. Two very difficult to photograph genres due to moving actions, low light situations and the need to have a heavier zoom lens in order to capture the right shot..."
3. you are also on a somewhat limited budget.

ok.
1. shooting 2 DSLR bodies with 2 heavy zoom lenses attached could posses some serious chalenges as we are talking 2 x 2.5 kg rigs hanging of your hips or shoulders depending on your setup. It could be quite a challenge. I am speaking from personal experience shooting 2 x 6D bodies with 24-70 and 70-200 zoom lenses attached.
Can you get away shooting a single FF body with 70-200 zoom lns attached? can you hold 2.5kg rig for extended period of time? 5 minutes?
2. Canon 6D II bodies are excellent camera for the low light situation! that seems to be what you are looking for.
Shots taken at ISO 3200 come out are very clean.
AF performance is very adequate for your genre. you will be likely shooting in ZONE AF mode and 45 AF points is more than enough shooting children and ballroom dancing. Tilty Flippy screen is another God's send for low angle or over heads shots. I do not see how 6D II is a wrong camera for you. In fact it perfect for your applications.
3. Would you consider selling you 70D body to finace 6D II purchase? that would certainly help to offset the cost of the new body and heavy zoom lenses you are also planning to obtaing.
from experience shooting in your genre, you can perfectly get away with 2 lenses only: 24-70 F2.8 and 70-200 F2.8. Tamron 24-70 VC and 70-200 VC may be the lenses you are after. These lenses are capable of delivering a very nice image quality and are much cheaper than similar lenses made by Canon.
I do not see 5D III body being an advantage over 6D II body for your applications. in fact, lighter 6D II body with tilty flippy screen and improved RGB metering may serve your better than the heavier and larger 5D III.

Agree with SecureGSM's comments.

 

[lgn55063]

Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

Hello SecureGSM,
Thank you for your response! I am learning as I go along and am grateful for your help. Experience is not something I can brag about; yet. This is why I have been depending on "reviews" to help me choose my next camera.

In answer to your questions:
-- I have the Canon 24-105 f4L II and love the results I get with it for close range shots. But need a longer
reach for when the dancers are on the other side of the ballroom and I can't get there fast enough.
Also when taking candid pictures of children in a natural environment and do not want the camera to be a
distraction. I tried the Canon 24-70 F4L and did not feel comfortable with it. (exchanged it for the 24-105
above)
-- I have the kit lens Canon 70-250mm but want better picture results. I did try the new Tamron 70-200 G2 and
the Canon70-200 F2.8L; they are too heavy without a tripod for me. (non allowed in competitions)
I have tested the Canon 70-200 F4L IS and can handle it for longer periods; which I plan to purchase after I
get a second camera. Low light is my challenge when it comes to the longer range reaches.
-- As for selling my 70D, I have always heard a decent photographer always has a back up camera handy for
"just in case." It's also good to have it ready with a second lens. No, I cannot carry both cameras at the same
time; but can have both cameras handy for a quick grab and shoot. (getting better at grab and shoot!)

You are correct, the 5DMarkIII is heavier than my 70D and the 6DMarkII.
With your response, I will be rethinking the purchase of the Canon 6DMarkII. I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience and knowledge.

 

[SecureGSM]

Re: Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

My pleasure.
if F4 aperture lens is wide enough for your situations ( provides enough of light to keep your shutter speed high enough to help you freeze the moment, then may I suggest Canon 70-200 F4 IS L is a very nice lens. Some photogs shoot with this lens in studio professionaly and swear by it.
please consider that shooting ballroom, chidlren action your shutter speed would be ideally at 1/1000s and faster for very fast moving subject.
please see the image attached. nothing artistic, I was test shooting rehersal to familiarise myself with the scene setup, actors movements, angles and framing. Anyway, this shot was taken at between 200-300mm, F2.8, 1/1000s ISO 3200(!). i would not go any higher than ISO 3200 shooting 6D. Shooting with F4 zoom lens would see the ISO moving into 6400 territory. You mayt be able to get away shooting at F4 and 1/1800s shutter speed and ISO 4000-ish. It depends on the lighting available.

Let me share my opinion ion regards to the following your statement"... As for selling my 70D, I have always heard a decent photographer always has a back up camera handy for "just in case... It's also good to have it ready with a second lens...."

I can provide a ton of evidence that decent photographers not always have back up cameras ready, unless:
1. They can afford the second rig and;
2. Must ensure that the camera failure will not affect their ability to deliver resulting images to their client and;
3. shoot in a fast pace, run and gun situations where they absolutely must to swtich cameras really really fast or condition are not accomodative ( dust, sand, dirt, etc).

how quickly are you able to swtich your lenses? You may consider focusing on mastering the skills of changing your lenses faster and that way avoid the need for the second DSLR body all together. can you do it in 10 seconds? if yes, then you are not risking to miss alot of action.

May I also suggest that the Lowepro S&F Lens Exchange Case 200 AW makes lens swapping action as quick and as painless as it could be:

http://store.lowepro.com/s-f-lens-exchange-case-200-aw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsL4znCKO-U

Do you still feel that you _need_ that second DSLR body?

Hello SecureGSM,
Thank you for your response! I am learning as I go along and am grateful for your help. Experience is not something I can brag about; yet. This is why I have been depending on "reviews" to help me choose my next camera.

In answer to your questions:
-- I have the Canon 24-105 f4L II and love the results I get with it for close range shots. But need a longer
reach for when the dancers are on the other side of the ballroom and I can't get there fast enough.
Also when taking candid pictures of children in a natural environment and do not want the camera to be a
distraction. I tried the Canon 24-70 F4L and did not feel comfortable with it. (exchanged it for the 24-105
above)
-- I have the kit lens Canon 70-250mm but want better picture results. I did try the new Tamron 70-200 G2 and
the Canon70-200 F2.8L; they are too heavy without a tripod for me. (non allowed in competitions)
I have tested the Canon 70-200 F4L IS and can handle it for longer periods; which I plan to purchase after I
get a second camera. Low light is my challenge when it comes to the longer range reaches.
-- As for selling my 70D, I have always heard a decent photographer always has a back up camera handy for
"just in case." It's also good to have it ready with a second lens. No, I cannot carry both cameras at the same
time; but can have both cameras handy for a quick grab and shoot. (getting better at grab and shoot!)

You are correct, the 5DMarkIII is heavier than my 70D and the 6DMarkII.
With your response, I will be rethinking the purchase of the Canon 6DMarkII. I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience and knowledge.

 

[lgn55063]

Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

Good day all,
As you notice, my in-experience is noted. However, my comments are based on what "I" know, not on what I should know. Yes, I am in my senior years; yes, I am not as knowledgeable as most of you; yes, my budget is much more limited than most, (regarding the 1Dx response) and finally, yes, I have so much to learn in this fast paced ever changing world of digital photography. The fun part is that I "am" willing to learn and try new things. This is what I hope to do with "all" of you that comment here.

Photography is a creative form in which I have always loved and will continue to love. I love "still" photography. I love to capture dancers in their craft and the joy and fun of children being creative in thought and play.
I enjoy the awe on a dancer's face when I give them a photo on a move they performed or the joy of a parent when their child's character is caught in a picture.

This medium has changed drastically since I left it years ago in the black and white develop your own film, "don't you dare open that door while the light is on!" era.

I want photography to be my social security fill in job after retirement; which I will be reaching very shortly. I am willing to learn with constructive criticism.

So for those of you taking the time to show me:
-- how to learn to buy and use new equipment (or good used equipment) preferably Canon
-- how to take better pictures of both of my chosen genres
-- how to respond properly with the correct photography dialect
-- and how to network with friendly and fun photographers, (share other sites where I can further learn)
I thank you ahead of time...

 

[brad-man]

Re: Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

Good day all,
As you notice, my in-experience is noted. However, my comments are based on what "I" know, not on what I should know. Yes, I am in my senior years; yes, I am not as knowledgeable as most of you; yes, my budget is much more limited than most, (regarding the 1Dx response) and finally, yes, I have so much to learn in this fast paced ever changing world of digital photography. The fun part is that I "am" willing to learn and try new things. This is what I hope to do with "all" of you that comment here.

Photography is a creative form in which I have always loved and will continue to love. I love "still" photography. I love to capture dancers in their craft and the joy and fun of children being creative in thought and play.
I enjoy the awe on a dancer's face when I give them a photo on a move they performed or the joy of a parent when their child's character is caught in a picture.

This medium has changed drastically since I left it years ago in the black and white develop your own film, "don't you dare open that door while the light is on!" era.

I want photography to be my social security fill in job after retirement; which I will be reaching very shortly. I am willing to learn with constructive criticism.

So for those of you taking the time to show me:
-- how to learn to buy and use new equipment (or good used equipment) preferably Canon
-- how to take better pictures of both of my chosen genres
-- how to respond properly with the correct photography dialect
-- and how to network with friendly and fun photographers, (share other sites where I can further learn)
I thank you ahead of time...

Hello. An excellent source for new equipment is https://www.canonpricewatch.com/. Of course ebay is another great resource as long as you pay attention to the seller's record/feedback. Craig's List is another option, but much more risky (I don't use it personally). Most of the rest of your requirements can be accomplished on this site (the friendly and fun photographers is hit or miss ). Another site worth checking out is http://www.fredmiranda.com/.

 

[lgn55063]

Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

both of these with Canon 70D... sorry type o!
One of dancing
child thinking

 

[lgn55063]

Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

Hello, Secure GSM
have been an awesome help...

 

[Khalai]

There are also fast and affordable telephoto primes. Namely 135/2L or Sigma 135/1.8 Art. And then there are two 200 primes. Rather cheap 200/2.8L and much more expensive 200/2L IS or legendary 200/1.8L if you can find one second hand.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

both of these with Canon 7D...
One of dancing

The EXIF data says it was shot with a 70D not a 7D and that even though you shot at 4,000ISO it still needed a 1.43 stop lift.

Here is a comparison between the 7D, 7D MkII, 70D, and 6D (the MkII hasn't been posted yet though higher iso seems better than the MkI). I put in 6400 because that is the kind of noise you are fighting underexposing a high ISO shot like that, indeed your image will be worse than these swatches.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=canon_eos70d&attr13_1=canon_eos6d&attr13_2=canon_eos7d&attr13_3=canon_eos7dii&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=6400&attr16_1=6400&attr16_2=6400&attr16_3=6400&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.8237724240988066&y=0.18803854525184435

As you can see the FF camera is noticeably better at these iso's. If you add in an f2.8 lens, which you need to, this will give you another two stops of exposure, then you are going to get a much better result. Moving to a FF camera, even a 6D MkI, and an f2.8 zoom will get you close to four stops of improvement off the bat.

If you can only afford one now get the lens first, it will make a bigger difference. Used 70-200 f2.8 IS MkI's are around $1,000 used.

 

[SecureGSM]

Private, I think the weight of the 70 200 F2.8 is an issue here, hence I suggested to see if ign55063 would be able to get away shooting with F4 lens instead. He may be able judging by the EXIF data of the image provided.

P.s. DXO Optics Pro Prime noise reduction cleans up noisy 6D ISO 6400 images pretty well.

"...I have the kit lens Canon 70-250mm but want better picture results. I did try the new Tamron 70-200 G2 and
the Canon70-200 F2.8L; they are too heavy without a tripod for me. (non allowed in competitions)
I have tested the Canon 70-200 F4L IS and can handle it for longer periods; which I plan to purchase..."

 

[lgn55063]

Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

Hi all
eventually I will be getting the Canon 70-200 F4L IS... I borrowed one... the pictures are good...

 

[lgn55063]

Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

Hi all,
I did not expect all the help I have been getting from everyone...
can't name all of you, but thank all of you for taking the time and giving me great advise...
thank you!!!

will keep reading, and correcting my mistakes with all of your advise...
it's lots to keep up with and learn...

 

[dak723]

Re: Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

I have a Canon 70D and have been looking for a light weight full frame to be my second camera. I am a "seenager" with some disabilities, a moderate income and am about to retire. I do not have the means to buy the Canon 5DMarkIV. I really was looking forward to purchasing the Canon 6DMarkII as my solution to getting my first full frame camera due to the lower weight and better price range. In reading the many reviews regarding the new Canon 6DMarkII, I decided to go with one that I have felt more comfortable with since becoming a more than just an intermediate amateur photographer, DPREVIEW. One particular review caught my attention. I am not sure if this is allowed on this site, but here is the link:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0227421206/should-i-buy-a-canon-eos-6d-mark-ii?slide=3

This has been the most comprehensive and the most, in my opinion, unbiased review I have read.
My genre are children and ballroom dancing. Two very difficult to photograph genres due to moving actions, low light situations and the need to have a heavier zoom lens in order to capture the right shot.
I had heard "rumors" that Canon was building the 6DMarkII to be a somewhat "full frame Canon 80D" which can be used for sports and low light situations and was lighter in weight than the 5D line. I was looking forward to purchasing this camera. This did not turn out as I hoped. By the graphic comparisons shown on the DPreview, I will now have to wait longer for a full frame camera. I have not ruled out going with the 5DMarkIII. I now also have to rethink my purchasing of a heavier zoom lens. I am disappointed that after waiting a long while and all the hoopla about this camera, it's turned out to be a camera for hikers who take wonderful landscape pictures and portrait camera.

If you are looking for a very high quality FF Canon camera that will be a good all-around camera for all purposes - and not too large and heavy - definitely the 6D II would be your best choice.

I see you are very new to this forum, so there are some things to keep in mind. The folks on this forum are very much equivalent to the audiophiles of the 1960s and 70s. They are interested in the ultimate in technology even when it makes no difference compared to lesser equipment when it comes to actual real- life experience (thus the frequent references to being "gear-heads".) They are pixel peepers and folks who underexpose 4 or 5 stops to make comparisons of different sensors. That does not sound like what you are interested in. It sounds like you are interested in actual photography.

Having owned the original 6D, for real world results in terms of image quality, you won't at all be disappointed if moving from crop to FF. The 6D II should have IQ that is just as good (which, as you can see, is not enough for the photo-philes) and has an improved AF system making it more of an all-around camera than the original 6D.

If you do not need a more advanced AF system to shoot moving subjects, then I would consider buying a used or reconditioned 6D, which you should be able to get for around half the price of the new 6D II. Otherwise, do not hesitate getting the 6D II if you need lighter and smaller (compared to the 5D series cameras). Unless you are a pixel peeper, you can pretty much ignore these tests are reviews and just go about and enjoy your photography.

One last comment. Again, this is a gear forum with a strong emphasis on technology. If you are more interested in photography and technique, then I would run away from this forum as fast as you can and try some of the other photography forums. If you search for "photography forums" or "friendly photo forums" you should get some links.

 

[privatebydesign]

Private, I think the weight of the 70 200 F2.8 is an issue here, hence I suggested to see if ign55063 would be able to get away shooting with F4 lens instead. He may be able judging by the EXIF data of the image provided.

P.s. DXO Optics Pro Prime noise reduction cleans up noisy 6D ISO 6400 images pretty well.

"...I have the kit lens Canon 70-250mm but want better picture results. I did try the new Tamron 70-200 G2 and
the Canon70-200 F2.8L; they are too heavy without a tripod for me. (non allowed in competitions)
I have tested the Canon 70-200 F4L IS and can handle it for longer periods; which I plan to purchase..."

I know, and agree.

I was just trying to reframe the issue and put in perspective the improvements to be expected. Certainly any of the 70-200's is going to be a big improvement on the 55-250 used, and on a cost per stop basis working out how to use the f2.8 is going to get you 'more' than any other route. If you can't, you can't, but there isn't a cheaper way to 'buy' another full stop of performance.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Re: Whether to buy the Canon 6DMarkII or not...

I have a Canon 70D and have been looking for a light weight full frame to be my second camera. I am a "seenager" with some disabilities, a moderate income and am about to retire. I do not have the means to buy the Canon 5DMarkIV. I really was looking forward to purchasing the Canon 6DMarkII as my solution to getting my first full frame camera due to the lower weight and better price range. In reading the many reviews regarding the new Canon 6DMarkII, I decided to go with one that I have felt more comfortable with since becoming a more than just an intermediate amateur photographer, DPREVIEW. One particular review caught my attention. I am not sure if this is allowed on this site, but here is the link:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0227421206/should-i-buy-a-canon-eos-6d-mark-ii?slide=3

This has been the most comprehensive and the most, in my opinion, unbiased review I have read.
My genre are children and ballroom dancing. Two very difficult to photograph genres due to moving actions, low light situations and the need to have a heavier zoom lens in order to capture the right shot.
I had heard "rumors" that Canon was building the 6DMarkII to be a somewhat "full frame Canon 80D" which can be used for sports and low light situations and was lighter in weight than the 5D line. I was looking forward to purchasing this camera. This did not turn out as I hoped. By the graphic comparisons shown on the DPreview, I will now have to wait longer for a full frame camera. I have not ruled out going with the 5DMarkIII. I now also have to rethink my purchasing of a heavier zoom lens. I am disappointed that after waiting a long while and all the hoopla about this camera, it's turned out to be a camera for hikers who take wonderful landscape pictures and portrait camera.

If you are looking for a very high quality FF Canon camera that will be a good all-around camera for all purposes - and not too large and heavy - definitely the 6D II would be your best choice.

I see you are very new to this forum, so there are some things to keep in mind. The folks on this forum are very much equivalent to the audiophiles of the 1960s and 70s. They are interested in the ultimate in technology even when it makes no difference compared to lesser equipment when it comes to actual real- life experience (thus the frequent references to being "gear-heads".) They are pixel peepers and folks who underexpose 4 or 5 stops to make comparisons of different sensors. That does not sound like what you are interested in. It sounds like you are interested in actual photography.

Having owned the original 6D, for real world results in terms of image quality, you won't at all be disappointed if moving from crop to FF. The 6D II should have IQ that is just as good (which, as you can see, is not enough for the photo-philes) and has an improved AF system making it more of an all-around camera than the original 6D.

If you do not need a more advanced AF system to shoot moving subjects, then I would consider buying a used or reconditioned 6D, which you should be able to get for around half the price of the new 6D II. Otherwise, do not hesitate getting the 6D II if you need lighter and smaller (compared to the 5D series cameras). Unless you are a pixel peeper, you can pretty much ignore these tests are reviews and just go about and enjoy your photography.

One last comment. Again, this is a gear forum with a strong emphasis on technology. If you are more interested in photography and technique, then I would run away from this forum as fast as you can and try some of the other photography forums. If you search for "photography forums" or "friendly photo forums" you should get some links.

No, NO, don't run away from this forum, just keep things in perspective. There is nothing like hanging around those in the know for gleaming the deepest insights!

I hadn't be shooting seriously with my Canon F1 for many years and a friend showed me the state of affairs with DSLRs and I was blown away. My 6D purchase was the best thing I could have ever done in getting me back into a love I'd forgotten and giving me immense pleasure. I'm retired and the gear is heavy but until I can't, I will, and I will enjoy it in spite of the fact that Canon gear is _____________ (add your own adjective).

Go for the 6D2, it'll be fantastic.

Jack