POLL: Do you need 1/8000s shutter speed?

[mackguyver]

I've never used it to stop motion, but I have been in many situations where I needed it with fast lenses. At f/2.8, a C-PL usually keeps things at or below 1/8000s, but with the 24, 50, and 85L with their f/1.2 and 1.4 apertures, I have needed 1/8000s and an ND many times when shooting portraits on the beach and in other extremely bright locations, even at f/2. Pale models wearing white against white sand doesn't help, either

 

[jdramirez]

The day was sunny, the aperture was f2.8, and the shutter speed was 1/8000. So yeah... and I like shooting wide open, so f1.4 or even f1.2 on a cloudy day... Yeah... I'll happily shoot at 1/8000 rather than using and filter.

 

[Halfrack]

Getting CMOS to ISO50 but limiting to 1/4000th is a trade-off lots of folks would take.

Remember, medium format cameras have been limited to:
1/500th - Hasselblad V/500 series, lots of LF copal shutters
1/800th - Hasselblad H series
1/4000th - Pentax, Mamiya (Phase One) Focal plane shutter

You should see how small that slit is and how fast it's moving to do 1/8000th, especially across a FF sensor. APC is so much smaller, going a much shorter distance, allowing for smaller moving parts. The only way to get faster is with a fully electronic shutter.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

All I can say is, I love having 1/8000th and faster. Here are a couple at 1/32000th from a few days ago. Even then, I brought down the highlights between -40 and -50.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

The day was sunny, the aperture was f2.8, and the shutter speed was 1/8000. So yeah... and I like shooting wide open, so f1.4 or even f1.2 on a cloudy day... Yeah... I'll happily shoot at 1/8000 rather than using and filter.

Exactly. The reason we buy all these fancy super fast optics are to be able to use them at large apertures whenever and however we please. Combine that with the fact that I think of filters like condoms in most instances, I would rather shoot without one 100% of the time if I can help it.

The only two instances (for me) where any type of filter is acceptable are either doing video with a large aperture in bright light to bring down the shutter speed, or for daytime shots where you want a long shutter for your shot.

 

[Diko]

Yes, Sir, Dear Friend Marsu42.
Yes, I need SS = 1/8,000 Sec. one time in every 12 months to keep my Canon 1DS running, Before Her Die. to shoot the drop of water.
Surapon

Try with two or more flashes... You will see water awesomeness in a new "light" ;-)

The quote is from "Lucy"

 

[bholliman]

My 6D can only do 1/4000 and there are times I wish I had faster shutter speeds available. ND filters can help darken the image enough to get by with 1/4000, but the darken the viewfinder enough its often difficult to see what you are shooting in bright light with a wide aperture.

 

[nc0b]

While there are lots of examples here from others who use 1/8000th, if I see my 6D blinking as I am over exposing in AV mode, I have some other setting out of whack. Usually the ISO was set much higher for some other shoot, and I forgot to set it back to my normal default of 400.

 

[TexPhoto]

Just for fun, ratcheted up to 1/8000 today.

REX11383 by RexPhoto91, on Flickr

 

[TexPhoto]

Untitled by RexPhoto91, on Flickr

 

[Deleted member 91053]

The original 1D managed 1/16000 sec according to DP review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1d

If they could do that back then why can't they do it now? Would it be used often? I doubt it but on a "Do it All" camera like the 1DX I think this sort of facility should be available. After all there are some (me?) who fancy the idea of freezing insect wings, or at least getting close!

 

[privatebydesign]

The original 1D managed 1/16000 sec according to DP review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1d

If they could do that back then why can't they do it now? Would it be used often? I doubt it but on a "Do it All" camera like the 1DX I think this sort of facility should be available. After all there are some (me?) who fancy the idea of freezing insect wings, or at least getting close!

Because the shutter curtains are traveling at the same speed, the 1D curtains had less far to travel than the 1DX curtains.

And the 1/500 sync is due to the fact that the 1D had a CCD sensor so had an electronic second curtain.

If you want to freeze insect wings do it now with equally short, and shorter, flash duration speeds.

 

[TexPhoto]

The original 1D managed 1/16000 sec according to DP review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1d

If they could do that back then why can't they do it now? Would it be used often? I doubt it but on a "Do it All" camera like the 1DX I think this sort of facility should be available. After all there are some (me?) who fancy the idea of freezing insect wings, or at least getting close!

Because the shutter curtains are traveling at the same speed, the 1D curtains had less far to travel than the 1DX curtains.

And the 1/500 sync is due to the fact that the 1D had a CCD sensor so had an electronic second curtain.

If you want to freeze insect wings do it now with equally short, and shorter, flash duration speeds.

As mentioned, it's a 1.3 crop camera. But no 1.3 crop cameras after that could. But can we see some of your 1/8000 second images with motion blurred insect wings? And how much light do you plan to dump on the insect? I shoot with a f2.8 and have to use ISO 400-800 to get 1/8000 sec exposures in full sunlight. Are you sure you won't light you insects on fire?

I've considered getting a 1D just to shoot 1/16000 sports photos, they are $100-300 on eBay. Still I think I'd shoot 2-3 good ones and then stick it in the closet.

 

[Deleted member 91053]

The original 1D managed 1/16000 sec according to DP review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1d

If they could do that back then why can't they do it now? Would it be used often? I doubt it but on a "Do it All" camera like the 1DX I think this sort of facility should be available. After all there are some (me?) who fancy the idea of freezing insect wings, or at least getting close!

Because the shutter curtains are traveling at the same speed, the 1D curtains had less far to travel than the 1DX curtains.

And the 1/500 sync is due to the fact that the 1D had a CCD sensor so had an electronic second curtain.

If you want to freeze insect wings do it now with equally short, and shorter, flash duration speeds.

As mentioned, it's a 1.3 crop camera. But no 1.3 crop cameras after that could. But can we see some of your 1/8000 second images with motion blurred insect wings? And how much light do you plan to dump on the insect? I shoot with a f2.8 and have to use ISO 400-800 to get 1/8000 sec exposures in full sunlight. Are you sure you won't light you insects on fire?

I've considered getting a 1D just to shoot 1/16000 sports photos, they are $100-300 on eBay. Still I think I'd shoot 2-3 good ones and then stick it in the closet.

Not quite sure that I have properly interpreted your post, however my point was that "it would be nice to have" and that they could do it in the past. Also that, in their flagship models, manufacturers should incorporate everything they can. Maybe you won't need some of the features - I certainly don't, I haven't even looked at the manual to find out how to turn on the video function as life is too short!
Would I like higher available shutter speeds - yes. It is no biggie but it might be handy/interesting occasionally. There are lots of other things I would like as well such as 6 ISO etc..etc.. The shutter speed thing is something that we know they can and have done.
Incidentally if you look at a slow motion sequence of Canon's shutters working one can see that (at high shutter speeds) the exposure is effectively a slit between the shutter blades that passes over the sensor. Therefore the exposure speed is determined by the speed of the blades and the size of the slit so sensor/film size is not important.
This is not a new idea (see Leica focal plane shutters) or the fixed shutters (slits) that RAF cameras used in the 1940s producing the characteristic strip images that my father's squadron (RAF 225 Sqdn) used to shoot in 1942/3.
There may well be issues, such as durability or Auto Focus, which make such high shutter speeds impractical but if this is not the case then I would like to have it.

 

[privatebydesign]

The original 1D managed 1/16000 sec according to DP review:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1d

If they could do that back then why can't they do it now? Would it be used often? I doubt it but on a "Do it All" camera like the 1DX I think this sort of facility should be available. After all there are some (me?) who fancy the idea of freezing insect wings, or at least getting close!

Because the shutter curtains are traveling at the same speed, the 1D curtains had less far to travel than the 1DX curtains.

And the 1/500 sync is due to the fact that the 1D had a CCD sensor so had an electronic second curtain.

If you want to freeze insect wings do it now with equally short, and shorter, flash duration speeds.

As mentioned, it's a 1.3 crop camera. But no 1.3 crop cameras after that could. But can we see some of your 1/8000 second images with motion blurred insect wings? And how much light do you plan to dump on the insect? I shoot with a f2.8 and have to use ISO 400-800 to get 1/8000 sec exposures in full sunlight. Are you sure you won't light you insects on fire?

I've considered getting a 1D just to shoot 1/16000 sports photos, they are $100-300 on eBay. Still I think I'd shoot 2-3 good ones and then stick it in the closet.

Not quite sure that I have properly interpreted your post, however my point was that "it would be nice to have" and that they could do it in the past. Also that, in their flagship models, manufacturers should incorporate everything they can. Maybe you won't need some of the features - I certainly don't, I haven't even looked at the manual to find out how to turn on the video function as life is too short!
Would I like higher available shutter speeds - yes. It is no biggie but it might be handy/interesting occasionally. There are lots of other things I would like as well such as 6 ISO etc..etc.. The shutter speed thing is something that we know they can and have done.
Incidentally if you look at a slow motion sequence of Canon's shutters working one can see that (at high shutter speeds) the exposure is effectively a slit between the shutter blades that passes over the sensor. Therefore the exposure speed is determined by the speed of the blades and the size of the slit so sensor/film size is not important.
This is not a new idea (see Leica focal plane shutters) or the fixed shutters (slits) that RAF cameras used in the 1940s producing the characteristic strip images that my father's squadron (RAF 225 Sqdn) used to shoot in 1942/3.
There may well be issues, such as durability or Auto Focus, which make such high shutter speeds impractical but if this is not the case then I would like to have it.

John,

To answer your fundamental question, Why are there not faster shutter speeds? Because the slit between the first and second curtain at 1/8000 is tiny, I expect they see reliability and consistency issues going faster, essentially, making that tiny slit smaller.

When you reply, But they did it before with the 1D? The answer is that was different technology and it didn't have so far to travel. CCD's (the 1D) and CMOS (everything after the 1D) are fundamentally different and even at this point they can't make global (electronic) shutters work on CMOS sensors like they can on CCD sensors, so the newer cameras have to rely on mechanical shutter tech, not advanced sensor tech like the 1D did. Also the 1D sensor is 1.3 times shorter than a ff sensor, this means it covers it's sensor in 33% less time.

The advantages of CMOS over CCD for general photography have been very apparent for a long time and so outweigh the advantages CCD have over CMOS that even the quality holdouts, medium format digital, have now all moved to CMOS from the last generation which were all CCD's.