Preorder: Canon EOS R5, Canon EOS R6 and new lenses

HenryL

EOS R5
Apr 1, 2020
130
223
Thanks for that link - it worked. I did find the part about focus bracketing. Unfortunately, it only allows one mode of operation, where the bracket starts at the focused position and the focus distance increases with each shot until done. :( That's the way it worked in my Olympus EM1_II and I hated it as it was too hard (actually impossible) to guess how far to bring in the focus distance so that the bracketed shots would cover what you wanted with the main point of interest in the middle of it. There were many times when the whole bracket was completely worthless because the main point of interest was never reached.

Canon: can you please add this option to the focus bracketing menu? :
I hope Canon can hear feedback on this and add (quite easily) an option in the menu to allow the initial focus position to be the *middle* of the bracketed shots, as that's the way I'd want to use it. EG: I'd focus on the eye of the bug I want to bracket, then press the exposure button, and the camera would back up the focus (reduce the focus distance) appropriately so that the bracketed shots would have the eye in the middle of the bracket instead of only at the first shot of the bracket.
Sorry to rain on the parade, but that link is garbage. I would strongly recommend against taking anything found on that linked website as evidence of anything related to the R5. Check out the movie recording size section - it doesn't mention 8K at all...and this, which indicates we don't really get 12/20fps...

"High Speed Display

The Canon EOS R5 must be set to high speed frame rate to enable this option. This setting lets the EVF update faster than the 5 FPS rate at which the EOS R5 shoots in Continuous Hi mode."

...and this...

"This means that shaR5 focus will more than ever be placed on the “leading" eye of your subjects,"

which is under Eye Detection AF. Looks like the guy did a search & replace, substituting R5 for RP.

And why would an R5 manual have photos of an RP?

Or mention an old DSLR? "You can select how to protect and unprotect an image from deletion on the EOS 50D"
 
Dec 7, 2014
245
152
www.flickr.com
Check out the full specs before posting such (useless) comment.
It's really not useless, especially for the R6.
Of course it is always best to have the fastest and have everything unlocked and the best performance for burst shooting.

But for those who don't need it, might as well save up some money, it is not a small difference in price.
Yes, there is a reasonable buffer on the R5 - even for the SD card slot but UHS-I card will hit the continuous write speed. I already have UHS-I cards so bundling in it is a bit "useless" - at least for me.
 

Chz

EOS 90D
Nov 19, 2014
157
53
The dynamic range is a full stop better (or at least two stops better compared to the 5DsR), basically very close to the Sony (but it's not a Sony) and the resolution is higher as well.
So yes,very much an upgrade for landscape photography.

What about cityscape photography? Handheld 2 seconds exposure with the IBIS, no problem (probably quite a bit better than Sony). Huge difference, could be great for shooting waterfalls as well.

But of course you know everyone else's mind better and they are stupid to upgrade to the R5 unless they shoot 12fps all day, so I'll stop here.
No doubt the DR will be better than the previous generation sensors.

Yes, on certain lenses, the shutter may be able slow down to 2 seconds. Let’s wait for real lift tests.

Not sure any serious landscape photographers will rather doing handheld long exposures for their work.

This is at least the second times you put words in my mouth! Where did I say I know everyone mind?? So stop that craps.
 
Dec 7, 2014
245
152
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Don't confuse store incentives with Canon. Dealers often offer their own incentives and bundles to get people to buy from them. But, some people will equate that with Canon incentives or assume Canon is somehow behind those store incentives, which is only the case if it is an incentive that every dealer offers, such as the referenced "free" jacket in Canada.

Dealers are no doubt desperate for business in these times, so it's no surprise they are cutting their margins or offering a free item or offering discounted bundles.That just means they want to score the sale.
It was confirmed to me by Digidirect that Canon Australia was offering the spare battery and custom strap to them and provided the pricing to justify their AUD400 pre-order bundle. I am checking if an alternative reseller that is offering an adapter instead will also include the battery. I need the adapter, I don't need the battery or strap (or UHS-I card)

EDIT: CameraPro says that Canon Australia have run out of their custom straps and resellers can no longer offer them for pre-orders. This confirms Canon's comment about pre-ordering numbers. Camerapro will not guarantee sufficient quantities for the initial release if I order today.
 
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Dec 7, 2014
245
152
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I'm curious to see if the 4k 120p has audio recording. Gordon Laing stated in his video that 1080 @120p isn't currently included in pre-production R5 models, but he's asked Canon for it already and I've seen in this thread that somewhere it was confirmed; it will be included in a firmware update. I hope this too will have audio recording.

Edit: Nevermind. Found in the same video that 4k @120p has no audio and is slowed down by 4x in camera. Hopefully when 1080 @120p is released, it retains audio recording :).
I always thought that xK30/60/120fps were for slow mo in post production... or at least that is my usage but I am not a serious videographer. What scenarios would you want audio as well?
 
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Chz

EOS 90D
Nov 19, 2014
157
53
The question was "why would you consider an upgrade if you're a landscape shooter" and those were some ideas right off the top of my head. If you are always on a tripod and don't need the resolution bump, totally get it.

The 50% is just the increase from 30 -> 45 mp. It's a ballpark, but generally when folks have looked at the higher res Nikon/Sony bodies, there's a clear improvement vs the 5D4. The AA filter's aggressiveness is TBD, but even if it was somehow unchanged from the 5D4, you're still playing with a lot more pixels.
Agree with increase in resolution compares to the 5D4 and R. For those who wants or needs additional resolution for landscape, the 5DS/SR are much cheaper alternative. Will an extra 1 - 2 stops DR warrant the upgrade to the R5 over the 5DS/SR? I personally wouldn’t and I wonder how many would do it?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,937
1,689
The R5 price on the Canon online store is A$7099. The local stores typically quoted it as the RRP.

Yes, some local stores are dropping their preorder prices to around A$6500.
In most countries authorized Canon dealers are not allowed to advertise prices below the MSRP (RRP). They can sell them below it, but they can't publish the lower price. It's in the contract between authorized sellers and Canon.
 
Dec 7, 2014
245
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And Canon is also very fierce about MAP, so stores can't advertise low prices, but they can add in 'free' stuff to give you the same effect as a discount.
OEMs can't dictate a minimum selling (or advertised) price for their resellers by law in Australia. Canon can protect their RRP (recommend Retail Price) by offering rebates, bundling in stuff etc but it is an open market for resellers to make whatever margin they can. If they were selling under Canon's cost to them then there would be some serious discussions why of course.
 

Chz

EOS 90D
Nov 19, 2014
157
53
April this year I think. In March I got the RF70-200mm for AUD3550 (regular ~AUD4200) but in April it had come down to AUD3300. Digidirect price matched digitalcamerawarehouse. I was happy in any case.
That’s about 20% discount and still excellent deal. I am on their email distribution list so will need to keep an eye out.
 
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Chz

EOS 90D
Nov 19, 2014
157
53
In most countries authorized Canon dealers are not allowed to advertise prices below the MSRP (RRP). They can sell them below it, but they can't publish the lower price. It's in the contract between authorized sellers and Canon.
I know. My rant was the A$1000 price disparity when comparing the Canon RRP between America and Australia. There were many who voiced their complains on the Canon Australia Facebook pages.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Wow...UK price for the R5 body is way over inflated compared to US price. US $3899. Through the current 1.26 exchange rate, £3094.44. Dial in a 20% vat rate, £3713.33 should be the accurate UK price. Current uk price: £4199!!! £500 higher than it should be, $600 is you do the conversion numbers.
Typically in the UK we take the US $ price and change the $ for £ sign and that usually equates the VAt margin...but this camera is WAY more expensive than that. £300 MORE than that. Canon is being greedy with the UK market again.
How much extra do you think we pay in the U.S. for the same extended warranty you get for nothing extra? Not to mention that we pay around 8-10% sales tax that is not included in the price because the sales tax rate varies from one locale (State/County/City/District) to the next.

For me to buy the R5 at $3,899 requires an additional $311.92 in sales tax from an out of state online dealer and an additional $350.91 in sales tax from a brick and mortar dealer in my tax district. It could be 10% ($389.90) or more in nearby large cities, which is the only place I'll find a retailer who actually sells EOS R5 cameras over a counter.

That puts my out-of-pocket cost at $4,210-$4,289 USD, and I still only have a one year warranty. If I want to add CarePak for an additional two years (three years total coverage from time of purchase), that's an additional $243.99+sales tax.

So now I'm looking at $4,588 USD for an R5 with a three year warranty.
 
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Jul 11, 2020
2
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@Besisika Thank you! Very well put and agree with all of your points.

Has anyone heard if the naming convention is the same where you set 4characters then have a 4 digit image number? I've had shoots that have rolled the image number over. Not a big deal but a 5 digit image number one would put the cherry on top of this.

I think this is like they gave you your wish list camera.


Nobody answers your question so let me try my best (some got too much emotionally involved).
The way I see it is that Canon tries to deliver to us a camera that today's technology cannot do yet.
I like their approach and I am very pleased that they did so.
The R6 was designed the old way: "this is what we think you should have, so have it whether you like it or not". The R5 went the opposite direction: "We give you a bunch of options and you choose what you want". People's problem is that they didn't take the time to sit down and choose the right option for them. They simply want to use the latest and greatest option and demand that it works their way, but our technology is not there yet.

To make things clear right from the beginning; the R5 does NOT overheat at 10.2.2, Clog, 29.97fps, 4K, full frame, ALL-I; as per Canon (watch the video again:
). This is the standard of today's camera. I shoot band concert, choir concert, community and church events and 90% of my clips were shot at 4K 29.97fps. I do use 60fps but only for the sake of B-rolls and these are 10-30sec clip max.
My opinion, if someone has to complain, complain about the overheating of 60fps 4K. That would make sense to me.
For a comparison, my current camera, 1DX II, does not overheat at 60fps, but it has a crop of 1.4. The R5 does overheat but it is a full frame. It totally make sense to me that someone wants to take long shots during a wedding at 60fps for the sake of slow motion. But if the wedding really is that important to you, have a backup in the form of Ninja V and cover the entire wedding with it, while recording internally only during crucial moment.
I hope that soon enough, Canon will allow a dual recording of standard 4K 29.97fps, both cards can do it, then why not?

Other than that, all the complains I have heard don't make any sense what so ever in my mind.
You do shoot long takes during interviews but it makes a lot more sense to shoot an important interview with two cameras with both on Ninja V. I tried to shoot with only one 1DXII and a Ninja Assassin, but once in 6 years, the camera shut down in the middle. I restarted but didn't help. I removed the battery and then continued to work again, but I lost 30sec of interview. I won't do that again.
Shooting an interview for the sake of cropping doesn't have any practical sense at all to me, unless you are interviewing for the sake of practice. Please have two cameras so that in case one fails, you still have the other one. Do always dual recording, short take internally, long take on Ninja V. Whatever overheating problems your camera has, the Ninja V resolves it.

In my mind, the 4K 120fps is not for interview nor wedding long take, because it doesn't have a sound.
Long take on 8K costs too much, in terms of CFExpress, hard drive, computer power, and most of all exporting time in Premiere Pro. It doesn't have any possibility of primary/backup with Ninja V and no possibility of dual recording, unless you record 4K on the SD but that defeats your purpose.
If you need to complain, complain about the 4K HQ, but you get 29.95min on that, and you cannot get the same quality on Ninja V anyway (your backup will be on lesser quality).
To me, the 8K, 4K 120fps, 4K HQ, 1.6 crop 4K are all for B-rolls and these are all less than 1min long (with the majority at 10-20sec long).

For the first time in 6 years I am not complaining about Canon, because they gave me exactly what I wanted: "the ability for me to choose" regardless of the technology restrictions. Give it to me and let me decide how to use it.
Trolls always complain about anything and everything, don't be one of those.

By the way, the R6 4K overheats, the R5 doesn't. The R6 oversamples (hence the overheating), the R5 doesn't, unless you choose the option to.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Just for fun, what would anyone predict for the first date a major retailer (Adorama or BH) has an R5 in stock at normal price and ready to ship? I’ll guess Jan 1 2021.
I assume you mean without a waiting list? The first one they all get will be in stock at normal price and ready to ship until they start shipping them to the folks on the preorder list.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
2,937
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Having watched Irene’s videos since she began I don’t see anything different in the actual images from her normal 5D III and her EF 85 f1.2.
For the most part I agree with you, but the details of each individual pore on her models' faces are a bit clearer with the R5 and RF lenses.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I was thinking specifically about the GF lenses for GFX. Older film MF lenses were not very high-resolving in comparison.
The physics are still the same. If a MF format lens being used on a camera with a crop factor of 0.64 (the largest current MF digital sensors in mass production) can resolve 500 lp/mm, a FF 135 lens must resolve 781 lp/mm to give an image with the same resolution along the diagonal of the frame.

Fuji GFX has a crop factor of 0.78, so a 135 format lens need only resolve 641 lp/mm to match a 500 lp/mm lens on a GFX camera.
 
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privatebydesign

I don't preorder, I'm not a paid beta tester!
Jan 29, 2011
8,861
2,793
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For the most part I agree with you, but the details of each individual pore on her models' faces are a bit clearer with the R5 and RF lenses.
True indeed, good job I can buy the LR/Photoshop action to soften it back to a place where I can show the subject... :)
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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And they complained about not knowing if the R5/6 animal eye-AF was going to work, when clearly there are videos on YouTube showing this. And the videos are linked to from multiple sites like Fredmiranda, here, and in Canon Facebook groups. It's like it's their first time using the Internet or something.
Hardly. They know how to USE the internet to get more clicks and line their pockets, which is what every review video they post is all about.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Yes I’m sure your right. When the director asks why his set is shut down and he can’t shoot you can tell him that everything is fine because the camera shut down before it overheated. Honestly, I have no idea what the extent of the problem is but pretending there isn’t a problem rarely helps IME.
If a director on a set such as you describe is using a $4000 hybrid stills/video camera to begin with, there's your problem.