Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup

[whothafunk]

So I'm using a Canon 500D with it's 9 point AF system and what I'm wondering is, just what does the theorized .... 7D2 ...... mean for my photography?

one with the "7D2" (which we dont know jack sh*t about it yet, like FPS etc) will have not only twice, but up to 3x more photos and probably caught a better moment, with a lot more probability that they will tack sharp and more of them in focus, with (slighty) better IQ in all regards. and probably get the job done and get paid.

it will also cause jizz in your pants when hearing machine gun sound like shutter.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Sporgon.
Isn't that what the hot shoe blank plates are for, to stop the flash from deploying accidentally? : ;D
I'm not really in the market for a new body yet, and would probably go FF if I do upgrade, but if I was looking to the 7DII for an upgrade, not being able to remote control my flash could possibly be a deal breaker. But it is always a whole that you buy not just a feature so maybe it will still be good enough to convince me!

Cheers Graham.

Hi Valvebounce:

Regarding the pop up flash, I just wonder if Canon may produce their flagship crop body without one as a marketing differentiation between the 'professional' and 'enthusiast' bodies. Personally I hope it doesn't have one. The pop up flash on my Nikon D200 in 2005 lasted all of a week before it managed to get snapped off !

 

[Bennymiata]

I hope it will have the dual-pixel technology of the 70D, as I need to do video work as well as stills, and this will end the tiresome manual focussing of my 5D3 and 60D or carrying around of a dedicated video camera.
If it doesn't, I'll buy the 70D and retire the 60D, which has around 75,000 shutter actuations and is getting towards the end of it's reliable life, even though it has never even hiccupped once since I got it.
I do love my 5D3, and use it even more than the 60D, but a good crop camera is very handy at events and with good video autofocus, I can give it to an assistant to take videos with.

 

[Don Haines]

So I'm using a Canon 500D with it's 9 point AF system and what I'm wondering is, just what does the theorized 45 point AF system mean for my photography?

Scenario: Two photographers with identical ability in every regard, one using the 500D + 400mm f/5.6, the other a 7Dii with the same lens.
A kingfisher dives from a branch, into the water and returns to the branch 1 second later with a fish.
Both photographers successfully tracked this series of events from start to finish.

So we acknowledge the 7Dii will end up with twice as many frames for the shot duration. What I'm trying to understand is, will the more sophisticated AF system of the 7Dii mean that there is a far greater chance that the bird will be in focus on each frame?

I normally track kingfisher size birds for say 2 second but find that maybe 3.5/5 frames on average are out of focus. Will a 7Dii improves this ratio?

Canon has been paying more attention to autofocus than anything else.

It's not something you can put in marketing materials because nobody is going to put in print that their AF misses or the results are not perfectly repeatable, but ALL cameras from ALL manufacturers do it... As time passes and new bodies are released, there are improvements on the accuracy and the repeatability of autofocus. Think of the accuracy of AF as a bell curve. With better algorithms and better AF detectors that curve gets narrower and narrower. Plus, with AFMA, you can calibrate lenses to the particular body so the bell curve for each lens/body combination can be shifted to be centered on the proper focus point. Both of these improve the odds that a shot will be within an acceptable range of perfect autofocus.

What this means is that ANY new body will have improvements over the model that came before it, so yes, a 7D2 will have a better keeper ratio.

 

[Marsu42]

I'll buy the 70D and retire the 60D, which has around 75,000 shutter actuations and is getting towards the end of it's reliable life, even though it has never even hiccupped once since I got it.

With 75k shutter cycles your 60d is nowhere near its end of life, my current 60d has more than double and statistics show that this is not a lucky sample but all xxd are rather sturdy.

I do love my 5D3, and use it even more than the 60D, but a good crop camera is very handy at events and with good video autofocus, I can give it to an assistant to take videos with.

I don't know how the 70d af actually performs vs. manual focus, the latter is also rather easy using Magic Lantern and focus peaking.

 

[Sabaki]

So I'm using a Canon 500D with it's 9 point AF system and what I'm wondering is, just what does the theorized 45 point AF system mean for my photography?

Scenario: Two photographers with identical ability in every regard, one using the 500D + 400mm f/5.6, the other a 7Dii with the same lens.
A kingfisher dives from a branch, into the water and returns to the branch 1 second later with a fish.
Both photographers successfully tracked this series of events from start to finish.

So we acknowledge the 7Dii will end up with twice as many frames for the shot duration. What I'm trying to understand is, will the more sophisticated AF system of the 7Dii mean that there is a far greater chance that the bird will be in focus on each frame?

I normally track kingfisher size birds for say 2 second but find that maybe 3.5/5 frames on average are out of focus. Will a 7Dii improves this ratio?

Canon has been paying more attention to autofocus than anything else.

It's not something you can put in marketing materials because nobody is going to put in print that their AF misses or the results are not perfectly repeatable, but ALL cameras from ALL manufacturers do it... As time passes and new bodies are released, there are improvements on the accuracy and the repeatability of autofocus. Think of the accuracy of AF as a bell curve. With better algorithms and better AF detectors that curve gets narrower and narrower. Plus, with AFMA, you can calibrate lenses to the particular body so the bell curve for each lens/body combination can be shifted to be centered on the proper focus point. Both of these improve the odds that a shot will be within an acceptable range of perfect autofocus.

What this means is that ANY new body will have improvements over the model that came before it, so yes, a 7D2 will have a better keeper ratio.

Whothafunk and Don Haines, appreciate the comments. Thank you

 

[justaCanonuser]

[list type=decimal]
[*]The 7DII is based off the 5DIII, and thus the 5DIII is the full-frame 7DII

[/list]

If this happens I'd really appreciate if the 7D2 would have exactly the same interface as the 5D3. I use both a 5D3 and a 7D since about two years and I still get confused with the magnification buttons after I changed cameras while shooting when I want to chimp and then proceed quickly. This is annoying in particular because Canon's ergonomics are so nicely designed for an easy workflow.

 

[Tugela]

Dylan, get a 1DX and you won't regret it!

I tried talking myself out of buying a 1DX for about 6 months, but I finally bought a 1DX about a month ago, and I'm loving it!

Yeah, the 1DX is big and heavy, but it's like driving a Porsche...there is no substitute! Plus, the files are so much easier to work with in Lightroom...I don't see the banding/color noise in the shadows, like I do with my 5dMkIII.

Until you drive it into a tree, because the car wasn't designed for city driving

 

[Tugela]

Hi Sporgon.
Not sure what you meant by gain a proper rear wheel and joystick? The 7D is already equipped with these fine options!
Or we're you talking about relative to the 70D?
Loose the pop up flash hell I hope not I use mine almost exclusively to drive my 550EX remotely, in fact I feel for you guys with much more expensive FF cameras that require you to purchase an extra quite expensive unit to do this!

Cheers Graham

I don't want to sound cynical, but I hope the 7DII isn't just a 70D with the 'top end' ergonomics, just as the xxD line had up until the 60 and 70D combined a rebel interface with the larger body.

A little faster, gain a proper rear wheel + joystick, maybe lose the pop up flash.....

Hi Valvebounce: you're right, my wording was ambiguous ! I meant from the xxD line. Once the 7D was introduced Canon 'dumbed down' the control interface of the 60D from the 50D. When they did the same control layout on the 70D is was a sure sign that there would be a 7DII of some sort, otherwise there would be no new crop camera design with the 'full' EOS interface. So the slot is there for a top end crop camera to sit above the 70D and (just) below the 6D price wise.

Regarding the pop up flash, I just wonder if Canon may produce their flagship crop body without one as a marketing differentiation between the 'professional' and 'enthusiast' bodies. Personally I hope it doesn't have one. The pop up flash on my Nikon D200 in 2005 lasted all of a week before it managed to get snapped off !

I think we can guess virtually everything else about the 7DII - with the exception of the sensor. The fact that they have taken so long to produce a replacement, despite the fact that the marketing 'slot' is there, makes me think the delay has been caused by the sensor.

Whether it will use 'new' processing technology aka the Sony Exmor I don't know, nor do I really care; the sensors in the latest FF camera are simply remarkable for practical photography. If the crop sensor in the 7DII can come close to those then I would be interested in one.

In part it may be the sensor, but more likely the 7D2 will introduce the next generation of processors for Canon. That sort of thing has great potential to delay the launch of a product, since it is complex and has to be working right before release. That is particularly true if they are positioning the 7D2 to compete in the GH4 market space, since current Canon still processors are completely inadequate for that in the new paradigm of 4K video. They would need a new processor designed from the ground up that was capable of allowing the product to be competitive for the next 3-4 years.

IMO that is the main reason the 7D2 has taken so long to arrive. It is not the camera, or the sensor so much as the processor that is delaying it.

 

[Don Haines]

Dylan, get a 1DX and you won't regret it!

I tried talking myself out of buying a 1DX for about 6 months, but I finally bought a 1DX about a month ago, and I'm loving it!

Yeah, the 1DX is big and heavy, but it's like driving a Porsche...there is no substitute! Plus, the files are so much easier to work with in Lightroom...I don't see the banding/color noise in the shadows, like I do with my 5dMkIII.

Until you drive it into a tree, because the car wasn't designed for city driving

Also, ever try to carry two canoes, 4 people, camping gear, and two weeks food in a Porsche? Get the right tool for the job YOU want to do, not what someone else wants.

 

[AvTvM]

In part it may be the sensor, but more likely the 7D2 will introduce the next generation of processors for Canon. That sort of thing has great potential to delay the launch of a product, since it is complex and has to be working right before release. That is particularly true if they are positioning the 7D2 to compete in the GH4 market space, since current Canon still processors are completely inadequate for that in the new paradigm of 4K video. They would need a new processor designed from the ground up that was capable of allowing the product to be competitive for the next 3-4 years.

IMO that is the main reason the 7D2 has taken so long to arrive. It is not the camera, or the sensor so much as the processor that is delaying it.

just one of the compromises introduced by implanting video crap into DSLR stills cams.

 

[wfmiller]

In part it may be the sensor, but more likely the 7D2 will introduce the next generation of processors for Canon. That sort of thing has great potential to delay the launch of a product, since it is complex and has to be working right before release. That is particularly true if they are positioning the 7D2 to compete in the GH4 market space, since current Canon still processors are completely inadequate for that in the new paradigm of 4K video. They would need a new processor designed from the ground up that was capable of allowing the product to be competitive for the next 3-4 years.

IMO that is the main reason the 7D2 has taken so long to arrive. It is not the camera, or the sensor so much as the processor that is delaying it.

just one of the compromises introduced by implanting video crap into DSLR stills cams.

That's because it is the "me too" mentality!!

 

[Tugela]

In part it may be the sensor, but more likely the 7D2 will introduce the next generation of processors for Canon. That sort of thing has great potential to delay the launch of a product, since it is complex and has to be working right before release. That is particularly true if they are positioning the 7D2 to compete in the GH4 market space, since current Canon still processors are completely inadequate for that in the new paradigm of 4K video. They would need a new processor designed from the ground up that was capable of allowing the product to be competitive for the next 3-4 years.

IMO that is the main reason the 7D2 has taken so long to arrive. It is not the camera, or the sensor so much as the processor that is delaying it.

just one of the compromises introduced by implanting video crap into DSLR stills cams.

Originally still cameras and video cameras were segmented primarily based on the media storage requirements. That is basically why there are dedicated still and video cameras. As technology developed, the speed and magnitude of storage in small form factors became such that there was no need to have dedicated cameras any more. This started in low end machines, but the trend will continue throughout all cameras up to prosumer level. In the future the only dedicated machines are going to be high end professional cameras. Everything else will be capable of producing high quality video and stills. Dedicated cameras at the low and mid end of the market are virtually dead already. This will be the case in the high end consumer market within the next few years as well. Companies such as Nikon who refuse to embrace this are going to find themselves cornered into a small niche catering to specialized professionals only.

That is where the technology is going. People who cling to dedicated DSLRs are clinging to an obsolete paradigm, since there is no compelling reason that these cameras can't do both. they are embracing the past rather than embracing the future, and all the new creative possibilities it brings. Having sophisticated video capabilities in no way diminishes the still capabilities. There is zero reason not to have both with current technology.

 

[AvTvM]

Having sophisticated video capabilities in no way diminishes the still capabilities. There is zero reason not to have both with current technology.

as you pointed out in your previous post, video crap does have detrimenal effects on stills cameras. The whole sensor and imaging pipeline and all the R&D going into it are geared towards delivering moving images rather than delivering the most perfect stills images. It makes a hell of a lot of a difference, whether a sensor is designed to record single still images [even in short bursts at high speed] compared to recording freakin' viedeo for minutes to hours on end. Entirely different development objectives. To get both in one sensor, stills capabilities are being compromised. Same goes for the CPU and the rest of the imaging pipeline and resulting stills IQ. And for the entrie user interface. from unnessary marked-in-red "start video now" hardware buttons [not user assignable to something useful] cluttering my stills cameras to cluttered menus with a lot of video crap in them. All the way to those pesty HDMI-sockets, Mic-In sockets, Mic-holes and speaker holes ... that make wheather-sealing of my stills cameras more difficult and expensive. And maximize those flappy rubber-doors all over the nice and pure magnesium body of my stulls cameras.

No problem with convergence products. Go, buy a GoPro Hero ... 4k video, lots of fps, small, light, weather-sealed and dirt cheap. You need more video and don't just want to create freakin' youtube videos of how uncle jack giot drunk last night? Then go, buy "a real video camera". Black magic Design 4k camera costs less than a 5D III. So it cannot be about the money.

But don't stick all that video crap into DSLRs or Mirrorles stills cameras. I don't want it. I don't need it. I hate it.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi AvTvM.
Could you stop beating around the bush and just say what you mean! ;D
Just a thought, but do you think all the sales of stills cameras for video might have increased the production volume therefore reduced the cost per unit so you or perhaps I can afford it? Just a thought, not disagreeing with you about quality of image, wasn't the funny AA filter in the 7D for video?

Cheers Graham.

Having sophisticated video capabilities in no way diminishes the still capabilities. There is zero reason not to have both with current technology.

as you pointed out in your previous post, video crap does have detrimenal effects on stills cameras. The whole sensor and imaging pipeline and all the R&D going into it are geared towards delivering moving images rather than delivering the most perfect stills images. It makes a hell of a lot of a difference, whether a sensor is designed to record single still images [even in short bursts at high speed] compared to recording freakin' viedeo for minutes to hours on end. Entirely different development objectives. To get both in one sensor, stills capabilities are being compromised. Same goes for the CPU and the rest of the imaging pipeline and resulting stills IQ. And for the entrie user interface. from unnessary marked-in-red "start video now" hardware buttons [not user assignable to something useful] cluttering my stills cameras to cluttered menus with a lot of video crap in them. All the way to those pesty HDMI-sockets, Mic-In sockets, Mic-holes and speaker holes ... that make wheather-sealing of my stills cameras more difficult and expensive. And maximize those flappy rubber-doors all over the nice and pure magnesium body of my stulls cameras.

No problem with convergence products. Go, buy a GoPro Hero ... 4k video, lots of fps, small, light, weather-sealed and dirt cheap. You need more video and don't just want to create freakin' youtube videos of how uncle jack giot drunk last night? Then go, buy "a real video camera". Black magic Design 4k camera costs less than a 5D III. So it cannot be about the money.

But don't stick all that video crap into DSLRs or Mirrorles stills cameras. I don't want it. I don't need it. I hate it.

 

[Don Haines]

The improved processor(s) and high speed memory required for 4K video and DPAF opens up an interesting possibility for the action shooter..... 30fps burst mode in live view....

 

[jrista]

The improved processor(s) and high speed memory required for 4K video and DPAF opens up an interesting possibility for the action shooter..... 30fps burst mode in live view....

Interesting indeed. Here's what's most interesting:

Assuming a 24mp sensor, which has a "full" pixel count of say 27mp (including masked border pixels, inactive calibration pixel rows and columns, etc. all of which DO get read and which ARE included in every RAW image). Also assuming the ADC is 14-bit. Then, for a 3-second burst:

(3 * 30 * 27,000,000 * 14) / 8 = 4,252,500,000 bytes

In one three second burst at 30fps, you generate 4.2GB worth of data! If you tend to take 3-5 second bursts, and shoot at least a few dozen bursts on any given outing... Well, shit...now those two new 3Tb hard drives I just purchased aren't going to be going very far...and I'm going to need four times as many long-term backup and storage bluray disc for permanent backups...and my import/review/cull time is going to go through the roof...

Be careful what you wish for...

 

[Don Haines]

The improved processor(s) and high speed memory required for 4K video and DPAF opens up an interesting possibility for the action shooter..... 30fps burst mode in live view....

Interesting indeed. Here's what's most interesting:

Assuming a 24mp sensor, which has a "full" pixel count of say 27mp (including masked border pixels, inactive calibration pixel rows and columns, etc. all of which DO get read and which ARE included in every RAW image). Also assuming the ADC is 14-bit. Then, for a 3-second burst:

(3 * 30 * 27,000,000 * 14) / 8 = 4,252,500,000 bytes

In one three second burst at 30fps, you generate 4.2GB worth of data! If you tend to take 3-5 second bursts, and shoot at least a few dozen bursts on any given outing... Well, S___...now those two new 3Tb hard drives I just purchased aren't going to be going very far...and I'm going to need four times as many long-term backup and storage bluray disc for permanent backups...and my import/review/cull time is going to go through the roof...

Be careful what you wish for...

I know
Storage demands are constantly going up.... I remember buying a hard drive for work $9995 for 10Mbytes and my first digital camera shot 640x400 with 8 bit color... Todays camera storage requirements were unthinkable back then.... two days ago I shot a time lapse on a GoPro that sucked back 48GBytes...

 

[jrista]

The improved processor(s) and high speed memory required for 4K video and DPAF opens up an interesting possibility for the action shooter..... 30fps burst mode in live view....

Interesting indeed. Here's what's most interesting:

Assuming a 24mp sensor, which has a "full" pixel count of say 27mp (including masked border pixels, inactive calibration pixel rows and columns, etc. all of which DO get read and which ARE included in every RAW image). Also assuming the ADC is 14-bit. Then, for a 3-second burst:

(3 * 30 * 27,000,000 * 14) / 8 = 4,252,500,000 bytes

In one three second burst at 30fps, you generate 4.2GB worth of data! If you tend to take 3-5 second bursts, and shoot at least a few dozen bursts on any given outing... Well, S___...now those two new 3Tb hard drives I just purchased aren't going to be going very far...and I'm going to need four times as many long-term backup and storage bluray disc for permanent backups...and my import/review/cull time is going to go through the roof...

Be careful what you wish for...

I know
Storage demands are constantly going up.... I remember buying a hard drive for work $9995 for 10Mbytes and my first digital camera shot 640x400 with 8 bit color... Todays camera storage requirements were unthinkable back then.... two days ago I shot a time lapse on a GoPro that sucked back 48GBytes...

The crazy thing is that storage space doesn't seem to be advancing as quickly as it use to anymore. It was quite a number of years ago that we hit 2Tb....then a few years ago that we hit 3Tb, and now only recently have 4Tb drives have begun to become "affordable" (the ones with TERRIBLE access times are still around $150, and the ones with faster access times are still in the $220-$300 range). There are less than a handful of 6Tb drives on the market, and only LaCie seems to be selling 5Tb hard drives...both of which are at lest $300 a pop if not considerably more expensive.

While larger hard drives, all built with the same semi-reliable technology that has been plaguing computer users for decades, trickle slowly onto the market, our data use needs are RAPIDLY growing. As video, especially 4k video, becomes more accessible, I think 48Gb worth of video files is only the beginning! And as still image sizes skyrocket to 40, 50, 70 megapixels and beyond... Yeesh...I shudder to think about the costs of storing it all. Cloud services aren't even remotely "there" yet when it comes to space/dollar, and then you have to deal with transferring tens or hundreds of gigs across the wire.

 

[Viggo]

Is there any reason to use a non-gripped body aka non 1dx to shoot the World Cup Opening match other than testing a 7d2? I saw one tonight with blacked out logo's.