Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup

[Arkarch]

Awhile back I might have been more excited. I have the 7D and 5Dm3 pair - however current needs really have me looking for a second FF.

Most of my work these days is Landscape and Motorsports. Yes, an odd mix but I enjoy the different work and thought processes.

For Motorsports - now that I got the 300/2.8 II which works great with the 1.4 and 2.0 TC's, what I really want at the track is one FF with the 300 and one with the 70/200. Having a Crop Body just doesnt work for me. But I could really use a 1DX in this case. If the sensor was a significant jump, maybe I would use a 7DII for the long shots. But for the next year, I have wondered if just getting a 6D as second body would be the better pairing.

For Landscape, I am almost always 5Dm3. Only when I need the extra reach, maybe wildlife, do I use the 7D. At present it comes along primarily as backup. What I am really looking for is the next FF high MP camera.

In neither case does the 7Dm2 enter the discussion, except as a reason to get an updated crop body.

 

[ewg963]

Good it's about time!!!! Bring it on!!!

 

[wsmith96]

How about a return to the APS-H size sensor for the 7D Mk II ?

Not going to happen!

An APS-H camera can not use any of the APS-C lenses, does not have the "reach" of APS-C, and does not have the low light capabilities or IQ of FF. You get the disadvantages of both with none of the advantages of either.

You would be better off with a FF camera.

APS-H came about when FF sensors were hard to manufacture and expensive. Now, the cost difference would be minimal. The real question should be how long will APS-C last in DSLRs....

You would still have some reach, right? I agree that a FF camera would be better, but if APS-H were to come back, that might push folks who are on the fence in the direction of purchasing more expensive glass immediately. I kinda like my "320mm" 70-200 though

 

[jrista]

I could see them updating the existing 45p AF system of the earlier 1D's and integrating it here, but I had read an article earlier regarding the future of DPAP that suggested that we would be seeing significant improvements in that technology. IF that is the case for this rumored camera, it wouldn't be that far fetched to see a camera with high FPS as an optical view finder would not necessarily be needed anymore. I do not have a 70D, but can someone comment on using live view to track moving people? I would think it would be a sports photographer's dream to use live view, touch the screen on the player they want to track, then let the camera keep them in focus as they play while clicking away.

I'm probably speaking crazy talk, but I think that would be awesome.

Live view is NOT conducive to photographing action. It just presents a clunky use case, because your head has to be back from the camera in order to see the live view screen. With the OVF, your face is pressed up against the camera, which gives it a SIGNIFICANT amount of stability. This goes for hand-held or mounted on a tripod.

There is also an intrinsic lag between when action actually occurs, and when it can be presented on a screen. It's only a few tens of milliseconds, but that is enough that you can miss the moment of action your waiting for, because in many cases, especially with higher frame rates, a few tens of milliseconds can mean several frames have been missed.

There are also a lot of things that dedicated PDAF sensors do that DPAF doesn't do, and won't be doing for a while. At the moment, DPAF essentially turns the entire sensor into one giant line sensor. A dedicated PDAF sensor has selectable points, and each of those points can sense in the horizontal, vertical, diagonal, or even a cross or dual cross (horiz/vert + diag in two directions 90° perpendicular). The ability to use cross type or dual cross type AF points gives dedicated PDAF sensors a significant edge in terms of speed, precision, and accuracy. Even with the 7D's jittery 19pt AF, when using the center cross point with my EF 600mm f/4 L II, AF is extremely fast. With the 5D III, it is effectively instantaneous. DPAF, while it is certainly an improvement on previous FPPDAF systems, it is still relatively slow compared to a dedicated PDAF unit that requires a mirror.

As an action shooter myself, I hope Canon has no plans to ditch dedicated AF units for a LONG time. They are tried and true, they have reached their pinnacle with dense reticulated point grids, and they are extremely, extremely effective, especially for situations where your eye is pressed up against the viewfinder. At some point, after several more iterations of refinement and enhancement, DPAF MIGHT be ready to replace a dedicated AF unit, but now is not even remotely close to the time.

 

[wsmith96]

In today's cameras I agree with you that live view is not conducive to action photography. It is rather slow. I do believe that we'll see more movement in this direction as dslr's incorporate more video features. Now my crystal ball is about as good as yours, but I could see the functionality I described earlier available with an evf. In that case you could use a joystick on camera to select the focus spot then let the camera track. That could solve your hand held request.

 

[weixing]

Hi,

In today's cameras I agree with you that live view is not conducive to action photography. It is rather slow. I do believe that we'll see more movement in this direction as dslr's incorporate more video features. Now my crystal ball is about as good as yours, but I could see the functionality I described earlier available with an evf. In that case you could use a joystick on camera to select the focus spot then let the camera track. That could solve your hand held request.

I don't think 7DII will have an evf... if so, I think a lot of wildlife photographer will be disappointed as a lot of wildlife photographer use the viewfinder a lot even when not taking photo and most of them won't be happy if they need to bring a lots of batteries.

Have a nice day.

 

[Sporgon]

I don't think 7DII will have an evf... if so, I think a lot of wildlife photographer will be disappointed as a lot of wildlife photographer use the viewfinder a lot even when not taking photo and most of them won't be happy if they need to bring a lots of batteries.

Have a nice day.

There are two things we can guarantee about the 7DII.

1: it will not have an EVF ( thank goodness)

2: it will be met by howls of derision and disappointment on the Internet forums that will then gradually turn to grunts of respect twelve months later

 

[Marauder]

It's been rumored before on multiple occasions, so I also expect the 7D II to have a lot of video feature enhancements. The video on the 7D is pretty lackluster. I don't quite know if the new video features will be 7DC level, but they should be of a higher level of quality and capability than any other models except the 5D III, and still maybe better than that.

Yep I suspect it's going to marketed with video features, however still photography wise...I don't see these marginal upgrades such as +1-2 fps (from 8fps) being upgrade worthy though?

It's a prosumer ergonomic design+materials (solid top component over entire plastic) + the AF system that are the sell over the xxD and rebel lines.

What you call "marginal" is actually a 25% improvement (I don't see it being 9fps, it'll probably be 10fps). A 25% improvement in anything is far more than marginal. Besides, the next step up would be 12fps, and I really don't see Canon pushing that kind of frame rate from the 1D X down to the 7D II, regardless of how the two cameras are classified. A 41pt AF system with the same kind of performance/precision/accuracy of the 61pt AF system would be a MASSIVE improvement over the 19pt AF system, so that's certainly not marginal. You also get more custom functions and configurable options with the 7D line than xxD and lower lines, along with C1-3 user configurable dial options. There is also the very strong likelihood it will get dual memory cards (I TRULY hope for dual CF/CFast2, but I suspect the 7D II will be gimped just like the 5D III with a CF and SD slot...in which case the feature is largely useless.)

There is also the high likelihood it will be getting a new sensor (I think it is extremely remote that it would get the 18mp or even the 20mp APS-C sensors...Canon KNOWS they have to really break new ground with the 7D II).

These are all benefits that lower cameras don't get (although the 70D does have one single configurable C user mode dial option). It isn't just one feature or another, it's the complex of features packaged into a single camera. Same deal as with the 5D III...people cherry pick one feature or another to talk about, and no single feature of the 5D III is particularly significant over the 5D II (with the exception of the AF system)...but the camera as a whole, all the features of the 5D III put together, make it a VERY radical upgrade. I think the 7D II will be the same kind of release.

Well said!

 

[Don Haines]

I don't think 7DII will have an evf... if so, I think a lot of wildlife photographer will be disappointed as a lot of wildlife photographer use the viewfinder a lot even when not taking photo and most of them won't be happy if they need to bring a lots of batteries.

Have a nice day.

There are two things we can guarantee about the 7DII.

1: it will not have an EVF ( thank goodness)

2: it will be met by howls of derision and disappointment on the Internet forums that will then gradually turn to grunts of respect twelve months later

If it did have an EVF, it would be because they have solved all the shortcomings of the EVF, and the howls of derision and disappointment would turn into deafening shrieks

 

[Don Haines]

My prediction:

Storage: Cfast2 card for speed and a UHS-II SD card for versatility

AF: very similar to the 1DX but with fewer points, somewhere around 40-45. Image tracking in liveview.

IQ: a half stop better than the 70D

Burst rate: 10fps

Video: POSSIBLY 4K, but certainly 1080 at 60hz...

Audio: A headphone jack and decent controls/monitoring through touchscreen.

Megapixels: 24

ISO range: 100-25,600 with 51,200 extended mode

Touchscreen and WiFi

That said, I have a perfect prediction record...... Wrong every time

 

[Bob Howland]

Awhile back I might have been more excited. I have the 7D and 5Dm3 pair - however current needs really have me looking for a second FF.

Most of my work these days is Landscape and Motorsports. Yes, an odd mix but I enjoy the different work and thought processes.

For Motorsports - now that I got the 300/2.8 II which works great with the 1.4 and 2.0 TC's, what I really want at the track is one FF with the 300 and one with the 70/200. Having a Crop Body just doesnt work for me. But I could really use a 1DX in this case. If the sensor was a significant jump, maybe I would use a 7DII for the long shots. But for the next year, I have wondered if just getting a 6D as second body would be the better pairing.

For Landscape, I am almost always 5Dm3. Only when I need the extra reach, maybe wildlife, do I use the 7D. At present it comes along primarily as backup. What I am really looking for is the next FF high MP camera.

In neither case does the 7Dm2 enter the discussion, except as a reason to get an updated crop body.

Why the 300 f/2.8 II and not the 200-400? I have the previous generation 300 f/2.8 IS and really don't like taking the lens off to put on or take off a TC. I also have a 7D and 5D3 but think it's an excellent pairing.

 

[procentje20]

I don't think 7DII will have an evf... if so, I think a lot of wildlife photographer will be disappointed as a lot of wildlife photographer use the viewfinder a lot even when not taking photo and most of them won't be happy if they need to bring a lots of batteries.

Have a nice day.

There are two things we can guarantee about the 7DII.

1: it will not have an EVF ( thank goodness)

2: it will be met by howls of derision and disappointment on the Internet forums that will then gradually turn to grunts of respect twelve months later

If it did have an EVF, it would be because they have solved all the shortcomings of the EVF, and the howls of derision and disappointment would turn into deafening shrieks

Maybe they will dream up some nifty way to switch from evf to pentamirror and we will see both in one camera. Making it awesome awesomeness all around.

 

[2n10]

I don't think 7DII will have an evf... if so, I think a lot of wildlife photographer will be disappointed as a lot of wildlife photographer use the viewfinder a lot even when not taking photo and most of them won't be happy if they need to bring a lots of batteries.

Have a nice day.

There are two things we can guarantee about the 7DII.

1: it will not have an EVF ( thank goodness)

2: it will be met by howls of derision and disappointment on the Internet forums that will then gradually turn to grunts of respect twelve months later

So, so true.

 

[AvTvM]

7D II: main improvements needed
* Servo-AF performance ... totally agree with Marauder:

The main thing it NEEDS is superior Servo tracking of moving targets,

... "5D III plus further improved DPAF"
* Sensor/IQ ... has to be on par with upcoming Nikon D7200/9300 -> that means 24 MP, +1.5 EV better DR and no banding, especially at base ISO, +2 EV hi-ISO noise performance (compared to 7D)
* Speed/Performance -> 10 fps + large buffer
* fully electronic, noise and vibration-free shutter, X-Sync to at least 1/1000s
* RT-flash commander built-in (in addition to pop-up flash / optical master)
* WIFI + fully functional EOS remote App
* GPS -> built-in or as a really tiny external "wart", fully functional
* "reasonable price tag" ... around USD 2000, preferably below

That would make it a worthwhile upgrade from my 7D .. for me.

btw ... 7D II will definitely NOT come as a MILC and NOT have an APS-H sensor

 

[NancyP]

Yep, the 7D2 will have the same fate as the 6D - lots of disparagement at first, then, the actual users stand up and say "this fits perfectly with how I shoot".

For those who shoot action subject with a hand-held camera, there will never be anything more ergonomic than direct vision through a viewfinder. The camera is steadied against the face, and the camera moves as a unit with the head and shoulders. IS for shooting birds in flight is superfluous - listen to the many happy users of the 400mm f/5.6L (including myself). It takes practice to learn to pan smoothly, but once you have the knack, it is very straightforward (yay, cerebellum!). Think about the difference between shooting a rifle at a target and shooting a video game target with a controller.

The limitation of traditional DSLRs in action photography is the mirror apparatus, which has to be down to see through the viewfinder, then up to take the shot. I have not tried the fixed translucent mirror of Sony A series DSLRs, which in theory should be great for tracking action due to the higher frame rate possible. The issue then becomes AF speed and accuracy, and availability of supertelephoto lenses, the strength of CaNikon and weakness (at least lens-wise) of Sony A DSLRs.

I do so hope that Canon has paid attention to the super-speed advances in cards (CFast) and has streamlined the ADC and other upfront basic RAW file formatting so that the camera can have a buffer of 30 RAW shots / 3 seconds at top speed.

 

[CANONisOK]

Why the 300 f/2.8 II and not the 200-400? I have the previous generation 300 f/2.8 IS and really don't like taking the lens off to put on or take off a TC. I also have a 7D and 5D3 but think it's an excellent pairing.

At the risk of sounding glib by answering the question for Arkarch... I can think of 4,500 reasons why the 300mm f/2.8 ii and not the 200-400mm.

 

[tron]

How about a return to the APS-H size sensor for the 7D Mk II ?

Not going to happen!

An APS-H camera can not use any of the APS-C lenses, does not have the "reach" of APS-C, and does not have the low light capabilities or IQ of FF. You get the disadvantages of both with none of the advantages of either.

You would be better off with a FF camera.

APS-H came about when FF sensors were hard to manufacture and expensive. Now, the cost difference would be minimal. The real question should be how long will APS-C last in DSLRs....

I agree that it is not going to happen but, I cannot see it as completely wrong!
I mean it depends on the target group it is meant for. if it is meant for the action photographers that need reach, speed and low light IQ on a budget at the same time then it would make sense.

Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT BELIEVE it will be APS-H but, I believe it would make some sense for the above target group. Unless Canon had been extremelly busy the last one or two years, they will not have improved their sensors a lot so the only way to compete with Nikon would be to increase the pixel size. In addition, I do not believe that fast action/nature photographers use EF-S lenses.

The reason I do not believe it will be an APS-H body is not so much the EF-S lens compatibility (this compatibility exists for many other cameras anyway) but mostly so as not to compete with 1Dx and Fast Big White lenses.

 

[Khufu]

Considering what the 70D is relative to the 60D and 7D; I really think this may be the "New-School", Professional Crop-1D...

Built in grip for the faster battery drain for faster autofocus, a la 1DX and USM-Ls, won't be crippled to be slower than the 1DX as some suggest, simply because this could be the new pro camera with crop/reach and greater pixel density, excessive processing capabilities,... hell, maybe they've figured out EF-S compatibility and this'll be both the high-MP FF AND Crop camera we've been lead to expect

I'm really expecting some non-uniform changes, it's been hinted at... Not heard anyone mention the built in grip thing in a while - what's everyone's thoughts on that these days? Faster autofocus from more ampage/voltage/something, right?!

 

[Dylan777]

interested to see what 7D II has to offer..... :

I think it is G.A.S.

What about the 1DX?
A dream no?
And the 16-35 f/4 IS?
choices choices choices...... 8)

Just for the record, I DO NOT have G.A.S....... ;D I talked myself out of 600mm: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=19923.120

1D X would be a dream camera for many us(including myself). If I can talk myself into selling A7r + FE 55mm, then 1D X is within reach..... :

Regardless how fast 7D II might be, I highly doubt I would add crop sensor to my kit. Anyways, still want to see the specs

 

[luckydude]

There is also the very strong likelihood it will get dual memory cards (I TRULY hope for dual CF/CFast2, but I suspect the 7D II will be gimped just like the 5D III with a CF and SD slot...in which case the feature is largely useless.)

Why is two different kinds of cards "useless"? I'm not a pro, so maybe I'm missing something, but I kind of like the two different cards, shoot jpg to one and raw to the other.