R7 Focus and High Noise

[AustinbatR7]

Hi Alan- Are you indicating that you do not see any focus issues but perhaps faulty technique? Is there a different technique that I should be using. I always got tack sharp images with my 7dmii. I have found all my nature scenes and animals look poorly.

 

[AlanF]

Hi Alan- Are you indicating that you do not see any focus issues but perhaps faulty technique? Is there a different technique that I should be using. I always got tack sharp images with my 7dmii. I have found all my nature scenes and animals look poorly.

It's just I can't tell what is going on from the way you take images for these tests. If you use a flat image, then have a sheet of, say, newspaper flat on a wall and have your camera on a tripod exactly at right angles to the centre. If you have groups of plants wtih a mixture of distances, then show what actually you are focussing on - Canon's DPP software will show you where the camera is focussing. If you want to minimise noise use a decent RAW converter program such as DxO PL6 or do a round of Topaz Denoise - Lightroom isn't up to it with these cameras.

 

[Sporgon]

Would you please elaborate what that means? Again, sorry for my lack of knowledge.

32 mp produces a larger output size (greater enlargement ) of image than 20mp, and therefore when compared with the smaller 20mp image (from your 7DII) will appear less sharp. Also the greater the mp (for the same size format) the less sharply the pixels are defined and so again leads to an impression of softness. I read that you’re shooting in CRAW. I believe this is still the full 32 mp but compressed.
So it’s possible that this is what you’re noticing. You can test this by taking one of your 32mp files you’re not happy with, and in lightroom reduce it to 20mp ( size at 5472 px long side like your 7DII) and then see how it compares in sharpness. You might find it looks better.

 

[AustinbatR7]

It's just I can't tell what is going on from the way you take images for these tests. If you use a flat image, then have a sheet of, say, newspaper flat on a wall and have your camera on a tripod exactly at right angles to the centre. If you have groups of plants wtih a mixture of distances, then show what actually you are focussing on - Canon's DPP software will show you where the camera is focussing. If you want to minimise noise use a decent RAW converter program such as DxO PL6 or do a round of Topaz Denoise - Lightroom isn't up to it with these cameras.

 

[AustinbatR7]

Sorry, it is really dark outside today. In all the pictures for the test, I have focused on the center.

 

[AlanF]

This is 500x448 pixels. Is this just a crop of 500x448 from the centre or have you downsized the image? I did ask for a crop of 2000x3000px.

 

[AustinbatR7]

This is 500x448 pixels. Is this just a crop of 500x448 from the centre or have you downsized the image? I did ask for a crop of 2000x3000px.

crop from the center

 

[AustinbatR7]

crop from the center

Here is another crop

 

[AlanF]

crop from the center

It's too pixelated - the lines on the letters are about only 1 pixel thick so it's bound to be of too low resolution and not look sharp. You still have the 7DII box so just compare some shots directly.

 

[AustinbatR7]

It's too pixelated - the lines on the letters are about only 1 pixel thick so it's bound to be of too low resolution and not look sharp. You still have the 7DII box so just compare some shots directly.

Okay. I will take some comparative shots tomorrow as it is now raining. Alan- I sooo appreciate you for trying to help me.

 

[AustinbatR7]

I will post the shots here tomorrow.

 

[koenkooi]

32 mp produces a larger output size (greater enlargement ) of image than 20mp, and therefore when compared with the smaller 20mp image (from your 7DII) will appear less sharp. Also the greater the mp (for the same size format) the less sharply the pixels are defined and so again leads to an impression of softness. I read that you’re shooting in CRAW. I believe this is still the full 32 mp but compressed.
So it’s possible that this is what you’re noticing. You can test this by taking one of your 32mp files you’re not happy with, and in lightroom reduce it to 20mp ( size at 5472 px long side like your 7DII) and then see how it compares in sharpness. You might find it looks better.

CRAW compression shouldn’t affect sharpness, Canon implies that it works on low frequency portions, like smooth gradients.

 

[Sporgon]

CRAW compression shouldn’t affect sharpness, Canon implies that it works on low frequency portions, like smooth gradients.

Yes that what I was saying; CRAW is still full sized image. When FF resolutions moved from the 12 to 20 mark, and then 20 to 50 there were many people complaining of less sharp images. As 32 mp on a crop sensor is pretty dense I thought this might be something the OP is noticing compared with his 7DII. Also, technique and movement free shooting will be more noticeable on crop 32 mp when viewing at full size output (which CRAW is).
Reading back what I wrote, saying “this is what you may be seeing” after mentioning CRAW was a bit misleading.

 

[AlanF]

I will post the shots here tomorrow.

Let me be clearer, I think you still have the 7DII as you had images of its box.

1. First of all check whether you can take a 2D image sharply. Set your R7, and if you still have it, your 7DII the same and take photos as I said of a sheet of paper with printing on it, flat on a wall with the camera on a tripod at right angles to the paper. Make sure the print is large enough so the image is not too pixelated. Much better still, I personally use charts that you can download. My favourite is from Bob Atkins http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/technical/lens_sharpness.html where there is a gradation of resolution details (use version 2 of the chart - the different sized pairs of lines etc take care of the pixelation problems if the chart is about a 1000 px wide or greater). If it isn't sharp try using ES vs EFCS, different shutter speeds etc. Also, see if it makes a difference using DPP4 (free download from Canon) rather than Lightroom.
2. Then check where you are actually focussing on a scene. Download your images and open with Canon DPP4. It will show you you in the menu how to see where precisely the R7 or 7DII has focussed from little red squares it will put on the image on your screen. You will be able to see whether it is sharp or not there and you can compare with the 7DII. If it's not focussing where you want, play with your AF settings.
3. As I wrote earlier, if the problem is noise, invest in Topaz Denoise - it works wonders on your images from DPP4. Or, buy DxO PL6 - they offer a months free trial.

 

[AustinbatR7]

Let me be clearer, I think you still have the 7DII as you had images of its box.

1. First of all check whether you can take a 2D image sharply. Set your R7, and if you still have it, your 7DII the same and take photos as I said of a sheet of paper with printing on it, flat on a wall with the camera on a tripod at right angles to the paper. Make sure the print is large enough so the image is not too pixelated. Much better still, I personally use charts that you can download. My favourite is from Bob Atkins http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/technical/lens_sharpness.html where there is a gradation of resolution details (use version 2 of the chart - the different sized pairs of lines etc take care of the pixelation problems if the chart is about a 1000 px wide or greater). If it isn't sharp try using ES vs EFCS, different shutter speeds etc. Also, see if it makes a difference using DPP4 (free download from Canon) rather than Lightroom.
2. Then check where you are actually focussing on a scene. Download your images and open with Canon DPP4. It will show you you in the menu how to see where precisely the R7 or 7DII has focussed from little red squares it will put on the image on your screen. You will be able to see whether it is sharp or not there and you can compare with the 7DII. If it's not focussing where you want, play with your AF settings.
3. As I wrote earlier, if the problem is noise, invest in Topaz Denoise - it works wonders on your images from DPP4. Or, buy DxO PL6 - they offer a months free trial.

 

[AustinbatR7]

This is the r7. I also took a picture of where the camera focused. I will post the 7d next.

 

[AustinbatR7]

Here is the 7d

 

[AlanF]

I am a little confused. The image from the R7 should be 26.5% wider in pixel count but it is only 3.9%. I think you must have changed the focal length of the 24-105mm on changing lens. The EXIF data do say 88mm focal length for the R7 and 82mm on the 7DII, which is the wrong direction. Anyway, for images of similar size, they are about as sharp as each other.

 

[AustinbatR7]

I am a little confused. The image from the R7 should be 26.5% wider in pixel count but it is only 3.9%. I think you must have changed the focal length of the 24-105mm on changing lens. The EXIF data do say 88mm focal length for the R7 and 82mm on the 7DII, which is the wrong direction. Anyway, for images of similar size, they are about as sharp as each other.

Thank you very much Alan for looking at these pictures. Is it then safe to assume that there isn't anything wrong with my R7, and that the operator (me needs to learn how to take pictures with this new mirrorless?

 

[AlanF]

Thank you very much Alan for looking at these pictures. Is it then safe to assume that there isn't anything wrong with my R7, and that the operator (me needs to learn how to take pictures with this new mirrorless?

I think you just have to get used to the AF. I do a lot of bird photography and use two main settings. I use eyeAF and tracking for the whole field, which works very well in most case, even for animals and humans with it being set to animals, and centre point focus when I have to locate the bird myself. I don't know the extent of your technical knowledge but I use back button focus with the AF-on button set to the eyeAF with tracking and the * button to the point focus. I also recommend for slow shutter speeds, you use electronic shutter as it eliminates any shuttershock. The EFCS setting shouldn't have it either but if you are in high speed continuous shooting, shock can be transferred from one frame to the next. Don't hesitate to ask any further questions.