And one more just for the fun of it. I'm definitely going to travel to Oman and UAE some more!!!
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Reprimanded for a photograph
- Thread starter CanadianInvestor
- Start date
Re: Your friend's advice was excellent
I think they put this rule in place, because the majority follow Islam (???correct me if I am wrong).
I'm not muslim, but I have muslim friends and I vaguely remember one of them saying that they don't take pictures. In general, go to their homes, you won't see any family pictures, nothing. It has something to do with what the Qu'ran says... I think one of them told me that it reduces their lifespan by so many years. Its like our scientifically proven belief that smoking will reduce our lifespan... every cigarette you partake will reduce your lifespan by so many years. Similarly, every picture you take of yourself will reduce your lifespan by so many years... (again, any muslim members here want to correct me if I am wrong?)
Hesbehindyou said:
I think they put this rule in place, because the majority follow Islam (???correct me if I am wrong).
I'm not muslim, but I have muslim friends and I vaguely remember one of them saying that they don't take pictures. In general, go to their homes, you won't see any family pictures, nothing. It has something to do with what the Qu'ran says... I think one of them told me that it reduces their lifespan by so many years. Its like our scientifically proven belief that smoking will reduce our lifespan... every cigarette you partake will reduce your lifespan by so many years. Similarly, every picture you take of yourself will reduce your lifespan by so many years... (again, any muslim members here want to correct me if I am wrong?)
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surapon said:
So where are you from? I know Americans are often accused, to include myself, of being overly aggressive and confrontational... but if someone wants my gear, they better be better armed than me. If it is even, I'm looking for a reason to crack some skulls.
Give him money to buy a memory card... I don't want to be offensive... so I won't say a thing.
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There is nothing interesting, new or, if I am very honest, very good about this picture at all.
Anyone that spends a reasonable time in the Middle East, especially some of the more "cosmopolitan" places like Dubai - and I use that term liberally - see such things every day in shopping malls.
Taking a picture of someone's shoes like that is really rather culturally insensitive. It makes me think of those guys that try to get pictures up women's skirts as they go up escalators, or as they are seated. Sure, it is not the same subject matter but, that does not make it right either.
Anyone that spends a reasonable time in the Middle East, especially some of the more "cosmopolitan" places like Dubai - and I use that term liberally - see such things every day in shopping malls.
Taking a picture of someone's shoes like that is really rather culturally insensitive. It makes me think of those guys that try to get pictures up women's skirts as they go up escalators, or as they are seated. Sure, it is not the same subject matter but, that does not make it right either.
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chauncey said:I cannot understand why any westerner would want to visit any mid-eastern country taken the recent state of relationship
twixt western folks and those that desire to eradicate us.
Oh dear. I cannot post what I really think about your comment, as I would surely get reprimanded or possibly banned.
There are some very beautiful places in the Middle East, many with thousands of years of history. Travelling broadens the mind, and allows you to see things in a different light. I have travelled a lot through the Middle East and yet there are still some areas, I can't wait to see. On the whole the countries are safe, and the people warm and welcoming. Of course there are exceptions, but that is the same anywhere.
Maybe if you travelled more, you would understand that.
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expatinasia said:
Lest you think my earlier post is not in line with this sentiment,
A big +1 to that.
Only rarely have I encountered anything other than welcoming people.
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expatinasia said:chauncey said:I cannot understand why any westerner would want to visit any mid-eastern country taken the recent state of relationship
twixt western folks and those that desire to eradicate us.
Oh dear. I cannot post what I really think about your comment, as I would surely get reprimanded or possibly banned.
There are some very beautiful places in the Middle East, many with thousands of years of history. Travelling broadens the mind, and allows you to see things in a different light. I have travelled a lot through the Middle East and yet there are still some areas, I can't wait to see. On the whole the countries are safe, and the people warm and welcoming. Of course there are exceptions, but that is the same anywhere.
Maybe if you travelled more, you would understand that.
+1 !!
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I certainly understand msforografie's sentiments to be sure. With all the turmoil in the Middle East, it is a scary place. On the other hand, there are many exotic places to visit that present safe photo ops.
Regarding the OP comments and pic I don't really think that it was a reprimand so much as an admonishment. I think it is a great pic, but I wouldn't want a fatwa or other problem on my hands. Plus, I think your ex-pat was trying to give you heads up about the social rules.
I just wouldn't have published it, but then, I hate the sound of my bones breaking.
sek
Regarding the OP comments and pic I don't really think that it was a reprimand so much as an admonishment. I think it is a great pic, but I wouldn't want a fatwa or other problem on my hands. Plus, I think your ex-pat was trying to give you heads up about the social rules.
I just wouldn't have published it, but then, I hate the sound of my bones breaking.
sek
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expatinasia said:
Well said, After spending 26 Years in Indonesia, My first thought on this Image was "I wonder if he's still free", Dubai has a reputation for shopping, and Jailed Expats that have stepped over the "Line", visible or not, it's there, and anyone that Travels to a place like Dubai had better get their homework done before hand, if your a Photographer even more so, Islamic Country, different rules apply, but it's their Country, Obey them and your generally fine, but even then there's no guarantee.
I'm a very keen Photographer, I've done a number of trips there over the past 5 years to prepare myself for Desert Ultra Marathons, never take the Camera, I was in Dubai recently for 2 days on the way through to Tanzania 2 months ago, my Cameras stayed in the Bag in the Hotel Room, this is not a place to attempt "I'm a culturally sensitive Guy" as a defence, and I agree with most here on this subject, poor use of Common Sense, Poor Listening Skills, Poor Image.
To add though, There are some absolutely Wonderful Places to visit in the Middle East, People to see, but the area requires you you to polish your skills in sensitivity, and that sensitivity should be local centric, not what you consider as "sensitive" in your own Country, especially if your from a Western Country where we generally have a wider view of what can & cant be done without causing offence.
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J.R. said:
Most malls, even in the US, tend to not be big fans of any photography taking place on their grounds. Many have rules against it, although not super duper enforced.
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expatinasia said:chauncey said:I cannot understand why any westerner would want to visit any mid-eastern country taken the recent state of relationship
twixt western folks and those that desire to eradicate us.
Oh dear. I cannot post what I really think about your comment, as I would surely get reprimanded or possibly banned.
There are some very beautiful places in the Middle East, many with thousands of years of history. Travelling broadens the mind, and allows you to see things in a different light. I have travelled a lot through the Middle East and yet there are still some areas, I can't wait to see. On the whole the countries are safe, and the people warm and welcoming. Of course there are exceptions, but that is the same anywhere.
Maybe if you travelled more, you would understand that.
I am sure I would stand awestruck before the Taj Mahal, amazed at the accomplishment of its designers/builders.
This would in no way "broaden my mind" to the point where i could respect a culture that turns a blind eye to "kitchen fire" deaths, etc., ...not to mention the "untouchables" situation.
I hope and believe that I could never be persuaded to do-as-the-locals-do.
The beautiful aspects of a nation do not justify horrifying injustice, particularly given the thousands of years we all have had to make a bit of progress in our treatment of one another.
[ The reasonable man adjusts himself to the world, ...the unreasonable man attempts to adjust the world to himself.
Thus we are indebted, for all progress, to unreasonable men! ]
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When I was in Saudi Arabia, 81-84, one did see such sights. Not often, but you did see them. And if you did spy such a sight you looked away! And remember that was before Saudi got "liberalised" due to the first Gulf war!
In '81, my (then) brand new AE-1 nearly got taken away because we were fishing on a construction site in Al Jubail. It was only because of a very kind Scottish police chief and his equally kind Saudi assistant that I only lost the film roll! Apparently we were on one of the summer palaces of a very wealthy individual. We were told it was the King's palace! We were lucky not to get thrown in the slammer! The Scott said something that has stayed with me since. He said "This is Saudi Arabia. Don't take your camera outside your camp! In fact just go to work do your work and come home and watch tv. Don't do silly things like this. If you want to take pictures, take them inside your camp or better yet, in your room!". On my next vacation, I dropped my camera off in India. The only time I broke his rule was when I took pictures of camels crossing the road between Al Jubail and Dahran on way to the airport for my vacation!
In '81, my (then) brand new AE-1 nearly got taken away because we were fishing on a construction site in Al Jubail. It was only because of a very kind Scottish police chief and his equally kind Saudi assistant that I only lost the film roll! Apparently we were on one of the summer palaces of a very wealthy individual. We were told it was the King's palace! We were lucky not to get thrown in the slammer! The Scott said something that has stayed with me since. He said "This is Saudi Arabia. Don't take your camera outside your camp! In fact just go to work do your work and come home and watch tv. Don't do silly things like this. If you want to take pictures, take them inside your camp or better yet, in your room!". On my next vacation, I dropped my camera off in India. The only time I broke his rule was when I took pictures of camels crossing the road between Al Jubail and Dahran on way to the airport for my vacation!
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Good practical and philosophical discussion here. The multitude of opinions expressed here has also solved one of my perennial questions. Now I know that when I am photographing on the beaches I can photograph beautiful women (without their faces of course, so no identity recognition possible) in bikini (walking/sunbathing/lounging) without any ado with my telephoto lens. Whether I can/should and whether I cannot/shouldn't photograph those occasions always bugged me - but now I know. Great.
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Re: Your friend's advice was excellent
Heh, he's joking about the lifespan thing but it's true that Muslims are not permitted pictures (especially drawings) of people or animals. It's actually considered quite a serious transgression. Many Muslims do take photographs but these must not contain people or animals. Plants and inanimate objects are fine, so Muslim photographers are essentially all landscapers.
Some claim that the camera is recording light and the photographer hasn't created anything. Most religious scholars disagree with that interpretation.
Most (all?) of my Muslim acquaintances have lots of pictures of themselves. I can only assume that they're mere 'cultural' Muslims, even if they attend mosque, and deep down know it's all make-believe.
Heh, he's joking about the lifespan thing but it's true that Muslims are not permitted pictures (especially drawings) of people or animals. It's actually considered quite a serious transgression. Many Muslims do take photographs but these must not contain people or animals. Plants and inanimate objects are fine, so Muslim photographers are essentially all landscapers.
Some claim that the camera is recording light and the photographer hasn't created anything. Most religious scholars disagree with that interpretation.
Most (all?) of my Muslim acquaintances have lots of pictures of themselves. I can only assume that they're mere 'cultural' Muslims, even if they attend mosque, and deep down know it's all make-believe.
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Larry said:
It is a most awe inspiring building; stunning in its modernity despite being buit in 1648 and as such surpasses (modern) history.
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GMCPhotographics
Canon Rumors Premium
Re: Your friend's advice was excellent
I think you should be very careful of labeling anyone's belief system as "make believe", Christian, Buddist, Catholic, Zao, Islam....with that kind of attitude, one could easily point a finger at you as a bigot.
Hesbehindyou said:
I think you should be very careful of labeling anyone's belief system as "make believe", Christian, Buddist, Catholic, Zao, Islam....with that kind of attitude, one could easily point a finger at you as a bigot.
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