Review 2015 "Dumping Canon & Nikon"

[Tinky]

anecdotal, I'm chucking canon.

emperical: I wanted a 4k camera for modest money. Canon gave me the xc10. Panasonic gave me a g7. Went with the g7.

I have my canon lenses, which I'm adapting via a metabones xl .64.

I'll keep my eos lenses for video, in the hope canon do something in line with the market at some point, but for stills I think i'm going to go with panny mft lenses. A couple of primes.

 

[Otara]

The bit that makes me a bit dubious is where they say they're offering $800 for $20K of gear, unles sI misheard that. I do think DSLR is on the way out in the medium to long term for most purposes, but unless that was very old equipment, thats not an accurate statement of the current worth of canon gear.

FUD isnt exactly a new tactic in sales - giving people the impression they need to update before their camera gear becomes worthless has some pretty obvious benefits for people who own a camera store.

 

[docsmith]

1). I like the camera store's blog but they have for awhile been enamored/pushing mirrorless. So this, even if accurate could easily be a skewed data point. Basically a self fulfilling prophecy.
2). Sigma tamron are in an interesting position in that the are 3rd party manufactures heavily invested in the market. They could focus on mirrorless lens makers with their 3rd party lenses, yet they seem to, if anything, be doubling down on the DSLR market with recent release after recent release. Me thinks they know more than I do.

 

[Tinky]

1). I like the camera store's blog but they have for awhile been enamored/pushing mirrorless. So this, even if accurate could easily be a skewed data point. Basically a self fulfilling prophecy.
2). Sigma tamron are in an interesting position in that the are 3rd party manufactures heavily invested in the market. They could focus on mirrorless lens makers with their 3rd party lenses, yet they seem to, if anything, be doubling down on the DSLR market with recent release after recent release. Me thinks they know more than I do.

On point 2... despite the interest in mirrorless bodies, folk seem more interested in adapting their existing lenses. As a lens manufacturer it's win win. Also, Minolta AF, Pentax K, Nikon F and Canon EF mounts are long out of patent. Sony E.. EF-s.. EF-M.. not so much.

 

[Sportsgal501]

I traded in three of my Canon DSLRs and a few lenses not to hurry up and buy a mirror-less but they were older models, heavy and I wanted to still get a good trade in value while they were still worth something.

I picked up the SL1 which is so light and easy to carry and have attached my 24mm f / 2.8 USM ISM lens on it so I'm still in the fold although I do use my Pentax K-5IIs and just recently purchased the Sony A6000 which are on sale for the Christmas holidays.

I honestly enjoy taking photographs more now with the lighter cameras.

 

[geekpower]

those guys are salesmen. i should know, i shop in their store.

i would call this a sales pitch designed to sell a camera, any camera, to people who might otherwise just use their iphone.

 

[YellowJersey]

It's not just Jordan and Chris. I talk to the guys in the various camera stores around Toronto and they all say the same thing. Sure, it may not be sales reports and "hard data" but it is indicative, though not necessarily determinative, that there's a shift happening in the market. Even keeping up with the latest gear, I haven't been particularly "wow'd" by the cameras Canon and Nikon have put out. So it is prudent to take the shop guys' word with a grain of salt, but it would be wrong to dismiss it entirely.

 

[NorbR]

The bit that makes me a bit dubious is where they say they're offering $800 for $20K of gear, unles sI misheard that.

That was clearly a joke. It's probably more obvious if you've watched more of their videos before (which I did, I enjoy their channel).

Other than that, a few points to add:

1. yes it's still relatively anecdotal, and representative of a small market, but I was still interested to hear them say that. They do have a relatively large store and sell all kinds of camera, so however limited and non representative their sample size may be, it's still much more relevant and substantiated than many of the similar claims we read every day on this forum. I do agree however that they are mirrorless enthusiasts (unapologetically, I believe), so that's certainly one bit of bias, they're more likely to sell them.

2. overall I don't see why it should be surprising or worrying that this would happen. Mirrorless is growing and diversifying, that much is clear. The elephant in the room is Sony of course. I'm the furthest thing from a Sony fanboy, but what they have now (and 2015 was a big year in that regard) is a very convincing system as a whole. Much of the criticism that could have been directed at them just 2 years ago, about body and lenses, doesn't apply any more. So for some people, that's the best system, and they switch. For others (many others) it's not, and they don't switch, and they don't get noticed at a store like this.

3. let's not turn this into YAPODFC™, please, or even doom for DLSRs ... Because that's not even what they are saying. They say both things quite clearly: "Mirrorless is the future" and "DSLRs are here to stay". I happen to agree with both these statements, they can be perfectly compatible.

 

[K-amps]

.
"This is the first time that I've seen people in droves dumping Canon and Nikon, like LOYAL people..."

We'll have to wait for the sales reports: anecdotes about what someone's brother's sister's cousin bought don't constitute meaningful data.

You will not get meaningful data anytime soon, so for now, need to rely on exit poll type referential data... go to any store and ask them... they will tell you Canon DSLR's are not selling as well as they did, and they cannot keep an inventory of the A7ii's (R) since they keep getting sold out on those. Clearly a shift is taking place and some of us refuse to acknowledge it.

There is no good reason for Canon to test the loyalties of its customer base... that sort of flakiness is best reserved for the A-Mount owners... Canon should work at giving it's customers the best it can and make money while at it. things like using old sensor tech or AE linked to AF point is missing from the Stills line-up save the 1 series... why? Aren't there enough differentiators? Aren't there enough people using the 5d3 for Weddings, that an AE linked to AF would not save them time and shots? Why create this needless dissonance? Why are they forcing Wedding Photegs to buy into a 1dx? Its overkill for most folks.

It boggles the mind that a company with the resources available to them like Canon, cannot come up with a Modern sensor that leaves all these newer entrants in the dust, there is something to be said about corporate intertia; it also begs the question why can we not have AE linked to AF in a 5D class body, clearly this is protectionism... I mean try shooting kids running around in shaded areas, while using a non-middle AF point while you are spot metering on a 5D3 and you will see what I mean.

Canon can do better... it just teases.

 

[docsmith]

1). I like the camera store's blog but they have for awhile been enamored/pushing mirrorless. So this, even if accurate could easily be a skewed data point. Basically a self fulfilling prophecy.
2). Sigma tamron are in an interesting position in that the are 3rd party manufactures heavily invested in the market. They could focus on mirrorless lens makers with their 3rd party lenses, yet they seem to, if anything, be doubling down on the DSLR market with recent release after recent release. Me thinks they know more than I do.

On point 2... despite the interest in mirrorless bodies, folk seem more interested in adapting their existing lenses. As a lens manufacturer it's win win. Also, Minolta AF, Pentax K, Nikon F and Canon EF mounts are long out of patent. Sony E.. EF-s.. EF-M.. not so much.

Yet...Sigma does make Sony E mount/micro fourthirds lenses, and offers "conversion kits"....just a fraction of the number they make for DSLRs. So, I do not know about the patent issue, but they seem to have gotten around it for a couple of lenses. I am still thinking that they perceive the DSLR market to be better for their lenses even though there is a dirth of lens options for mirrorless that would seem ripe for the taking...

 

[AcutancePhotography]

Not quite sure I understand the debate.

Some people like DSLR cameras
Some people like Mirrorless cameras

Some people are switching from DSLR to Mirrorless
Some people are switching from Mirrorless to DSLR

Use the system you like to use and don't worry so much about what other people do or say.

 

[3kramd5]

2). Sigma tamron are in an interesting position in that the are 3rd party manufactures heavily invested in the market. They could focus on mirrorless lens makers with their 3rd party lenses, yet they seem to, if anything, be doubling down on the DSLR market with recent release after recent release. Me thinks they know more than I do.

Well, even if the percentage of DLSRs sold goes down while the percentage of MILCs sold goes up, surely there are more DLSRs in the wild than MILCs, and a lens manufacturer is likely to go after existing owners rather than new body buyers who may purchase OEM kit lenses, etc.

As the number of lens-buying camera OWNERS using MILCs approaches those using DSLRs, I suspect we'll see movement from the lens-makers. Until then, it's probably niche.

 

[tcmatthews]

Around 20% of my photography needs I must have to use a DSLR. There is not yet any viable alternative for a dedicated wildlife camera. I think in a few years m43 may get there. So for the most part 80% of my pictures are taken with my Sony A7II. This is up from 50% before the latest update added actual performance auto focus with Canon lenses. I was manual focusing that 50% and did not have all the lenses I wanted.

I was contemplating selling all my Canon and Sony APC-s items before I bought a Canon 7D II. Now only the Sony APC-s is on the chopping block.

Most of the desire to sell was so that I could buy more Sony lenses to use with the A7II or fund a A7rII. But with the software update I do not need to do that anymore. I do think that baring a specific need mirror-less is getting to the point where it is just as good or better than entry level DSLRs. And if you do not need a DSLR any more dump it.

One of my managers is a huge photography buff and he dumped Canon 3 years ago for m43. Sold his 7D and everything. If the 7DII was 2 years earlier or the 5D III a few $1000 cheaper he would still be using Canon.

 

[George D.]

CR0. Looks like they're dumping Samsung, for now they're looking for a downsized Canon and Nikon (dSLR).

Well, I know only one maker who succeeded in downsizing. Strip dSLR of everything in excess and you end up with a Leica. But then you upsize the price...

 

[TeT]

in droves? Trading in your t2i or d50 for a new mirrorless doesnt count. I'll consider it being a dump when its the 5diii & d810 with quality system lenses being traded in for for mirrorless systems... otherwize its just consumers being consumers chasing the glitzy product when its time to buy...

CAnon & Nikon bodies are the only older bodies that are worth trading in (mostly from a resale point of view) title probably should have been dumping old DLSR's...

 

[AcutancePhotography]

Petapixle, an almost nearly kinda authoritative source.. not really, just published a story claiming that "Nikon has reportedly acquired all of Samsung’s NX camera technology ".

Maybe we will start seeing some thing mirrorless from Nikon?

 

[Otara]

The bit that makes me a bit dubious is where they say they're offering $800 for $20K of gear, unles sI misheard that.

That was clearly a joke. It's probably more obvious if you've watched more of their videos before (which I did, I enjoy their channel).

Other than that, a few points to add:

1. yes it's still relatively anecdotal, and representative of a small market, but I was still interested to hear them say that. They do have a relatively large store and sell all kinds of camera, so however limited and non representative their sample size may be, it's still much more relevant and substantiated than many of the similar claims we read every day on this forum. I do agree however that they are mirrorless enthusiasts (unapologetically, I believe), so that's certainly one bit of bias, they're more likely to sell them.

I get thats its a 'joke' and I guess I did overemphasise it, but it was in the context of them talking up mirrorless and that pros are switching in 'droves;, the implied message of future worth wasnt a coincidence in my view.

Yes there are even worse data points, but thats always the case, and it doesnt make this one particularly useful in my view, at the end of the day they're still sales people trying to push a particular product area, supplying no actual numbers or anything that can be actually verified.

Otara