Review: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV by Lensrentals.com

[Loswr]

Interesting. In this space there was a statement about the characteristics of some people who are not happy with different opinions, then claim there is a conspiracy theory and those with different opinions need to be systematically shut down and outlawed - and the moderator does exactly that.

Well, when you compare those on a forum who express an opinion that differs from your own to dictators, despots and former world leaders responsible for genocide, I think it was generous of the mods to just edit your post and not ban you from the forums entirely.

 

[Loswr]

The two cameras with and without articulating screen have been the 750D and 760D. In other territories of the world they might have been called Rebel, Trouble, Bubble or whatever else idea the marketing dept. had.

Dilbert, is that you?

Please explain which camera, the 750D or the 760D, lacks an articulating screen? Dazzle us with your astounding knowledge. :

 

[douglaurent]

I hope the mods are working hard to determine who is using multiple accounts, because we have a poster, a very annoying one, who is trying to dominate this thread with the same rants she uses in many other threads, and, I'm very sure, providing her own support by using other NEW names to chime in. I've seen this same pattern now for months; I believe one or two persons are using about six different names.

Maybe it's beyond the mods ability to detect multiple accounts; if so, can the forum software be updated to help with this?

Makes for very uneven, frustrating reading of the threads.

One of the tell-tales is that the NEW name joining the thread is a photographer with a world class resume, having worked for the biggest publications, courageous under fire--but still coming here anonymously to make snarky, ridiculous assertions supporting the equally ridiculous huffing and puffing of the person who is constantly making the same rants.

You are wrong. There is indeed more than one person on the planet who is able to do a thorough analysis of the state Canon products are in.

<inappropriate statement deleted by mods>

The fact that a few other people agree with your personal assessment does not make it correct. The Flat Earth Society has quite a few members.

As for the statements you made (which I had the misfortune to read before they were deleted by the mods), to draw the comparisons that you did should be beneath you and clearly demonstrates the fact that you are out of touch with reality.

Some forum users share the exact same characteristics of radical extremists, there is no way around it. The forum users who insult others on a very low personal level - because their camera has been insulted - go way to far.

The attitude of some is "Your thoughts are not mine, so you are an idiot and you have to shut up". Like it's basically a common attitude of many people and internet users now - I just wonder how such users will work in the real world with clients and models? That's hard to imagine.

 

[Loswr]

Some forum users share the exact same characteristics of radical extremists, there is no way around it. The forum users who insult others on a very low personal level - because their camera has been insulted - go way to far.

The attitude of some is "Your thoughts are not mine, so you are an idiot and you have to shut up". Like it's basically a common attitude of many people and internet users now - I just wonder how such users will work in the real world with clients and models? That's hard to imagine.

I guess I missed the part where anyone was told to shut up over a disagreement of opinion. Now, when someone makes outrageous statements with nothing to back them up (e.g. "Now we have 2016, and subjectively 50% of all people are disappointed about the 5D4.") and completely inaccurate statements about easily verifiable facts (e.g. "The two cameras with and without articulating screen have been the 750D and 760D."), then perhaps the term 'idiot' is quite applicable.

To be clear, anyone is welcome to have any opinion they choose, and they are welcome to share that opinion here. But if they express opinions that are not supported by facts or make unwarranted assumptions about the impact or prevalence of their opinions, they should expect to have their opinions challenged. And if they make ridiculous statements, ridicule may follow. If someone cannot handle that, s/he should consider that before posting their opinion in an open forum on the internet.

 

[douglaurent]

Some forum users share the exact same characteristics of radical extremists, there is no way around it. The forum users who insult others on a very low personal level - because their camera has been insulted - go way to far.

The attitude of some is "Your thoughts are not mine, so you are an idiot and you have to shut up". Like it's basically a common attitude of many people and internet users now - I just wonder how such users will work in the real world with clients and models? That's hard to imagine.

I guess I missed the part where anyone was told to shut up over a disagreement of opinion. Now, when someone makes outrageous statements with nothing to back them up (e.g. "Now we have 2016, and subjectively 50% of all people are disappointed about the 5D4.") and completely inaccurate statements about easily verifiable facts (e.g. "The two cameras with and without articulating screen have been the 750D and 760D."), then perhaps the term 'idiot' is quite applicable.

To be clear, anyone is welcome to have any opinion they choose, and they are welcome to share that opinion here. But if they express opinions that are not supported by facts or make unwarranted assumptions about the impact or prevalence of their opinions, they should expect to have their opinions challenged. And if they make ridiculous statements, ridicule may follow. If someone cannot handle that, s/he should consider that before posting their opinion in an open forum on the internet.

You constantly overread words (like "subjectively"), and misinterpret things (it doesn't matter if Canon has multiple twin camera releases that differ in monitors, wheels, top displays or anything else, the main point was that Canon easily can release two versions of a camera).

You do that just to prove that the person who lists features that many consumers would welcome is an idiot. Why? Which positive affects do your actions have on future Canon products, which this forum is all about?

 

[douglaurent]

Some forum users share the exact same characteristics of radical extremists, there is no way around it. The forum users who insult others on a very low personal level - because their camera has been insulted - go way to far.

The attitude of some is "Your thoughts are not mine, so you are an idiot and you have to shut up". Like it's basically a common attitude of many people and internet users now - I just wonder how such users will work in the real world with clients and models? That's hard to imagine.

I guess I missed the part where anyone was told to shut up over a disagreement of opinion. Now, when someone makes outrageous statements with nothing to back them up (e.g. "Now we have 2016, and subjectively 50% of all people are disappointed about the 5D4.") and completely inaccurate statements about easily verifiable facts (e.g. "The two cameras with and without articulating screen have been the 750D and 760D."), then perhaps the term 'idiot' is quite applicable.

To be clear, anyone is welcome to have any opinion they choose, and they are welcome to share that opinion here. But if they express opinions that are not supported by facts or make unwarranted assumptions about the impact or prevalence of their opinions, they should expect to have their opinions challenged. And if they make ridiculous statements, ridicule may follow. If someone cannot handle that, s/he should consider that before posting their opinion in an open forum on the internet.

The core of what I write in a first post is always a list of missing features that Canon's competitors already do offer. The personal insults start right after these hard facts, and only because of that. Then in the later progress of posts some people try to use each and every word against the one who came up with the facts.

While being extremely generous with Canon about their policies, suddenly the same people become very strict about details that have nothing to do with the main arguments.

I am very sorry that some users see their 5D4 camera as a family member and the company Canon as a private club of friends I might have insulted. That was not my goal.

 

[Loswr]

The core of what I write in a first post is always a list of missing features that Canon's competitors already do offer. The personal insults start right after these hard facts, and only because of that.

Sure, the objections have nothing to do with your characterization of the lack of those features as 'shameful'. Of course, the disputes have nothing to do with the fact that you make totally unsupportable claims like, "50% of all people are unhappy with the 5DIV." (Yes, you said 'subjectively'...fine, subjectively your statement is idiotic and moronic...don't overread that word, 'subjectively'.) Certainly, the counter-arguments are unrelated to some of your 'hard facts' being completely silly (lack of a speedbooster option for a FF camera is somehow Canon's missing feature).

You just go right on sharing your 'hard facts' and likening those who disagree with you to genocidal dictators. As I stated, you're welcome to share your opinion, no matter how foolish you sound as a result.

 

[douglaurent]

The core of what I write in a first post is always a list of missing features that Canon's competitors already do offer. The personal insults start right after these hard facts, and only because of that.

Sure, the objections have nothing to do with your characterization of the lack of those features as 'shameful'. Of course, the disputes have nothing to do with the fact that you make totally unsupportable claims like, "50% of all people are unhappy with the 5DIV." (Yes, you said 'subjectively'...fine, subjectively your statement is idiotic and moronic...don't overread that word, 'subjectively'.) Certainly, the counter-arguments are unrelated to some of your 'hard facts' being completely silly (lack of a speedbooster option for a FF camera is somehow Canon's missing feature).

You just go right on sharing your 'hard facts' and likening those who disagree with you to genocidal dictators. As I stated, you're welcome to share your opinion, no matter how foolish you sound as a result.

Canon and Canon users consider their brand as being the #1 on the market, so my personal opinion about cameras that I bought myself and are excellent in itself, but still having a historical deficit in features compared to the competition was "shameful". It could have been another word, like disappointing or weak.

I don't even miss some of the features myself. But I also get a lot of disappointed personal feedback from others - people who bought a 5D2 and 5D3 and now won't buy a 5D4, although it's a much stronger camera. Those people can't afford to buy several camera systems at the same time, and they rent and buy other products because they need a lot of the features the Canon cameras are missing today. Seeing this is sad and unnecessary.

The Speedbooster option is the only point Canon couldn't add by changing the camera - of course. Still it is a disadvantage over Sony that can be listed. I also know that speedboosters for the 5D4 already exist, as I used 645 mount lenses on it myself. But even if full frame lenses would exist that could be mounted on the 5D4 with a speedbooster, a speedbooster option would be useless, as the camera - unlike Nikon or Sony FF cameras - doesn't offer a crop mode which is necessary (except the one exclusively for 4K).

 

[douglaurent]

Interesting. In this space there was a statement about the characteristics of some people who are not happy with different opinions, then claim there is a conspiracy theory and those with different opinions need to be systematically shut down and outlawed - and the moderator does exactly that.

Well, when you compare those on a forum who express an opinion that differs from your own to dictators, despots and former world leaders responsible for genocide, I think it was generous of the mods to just edit your post and not ban you from the forums entirely.

You and the moderator should have read word by word. People who show characteristics (!) of dictators is a valid description, when someone wants to outlaw others by pleading non-existing conspiracy theories.

Other than that, from now on I might not have anything to write about Canon cameras anymore until the year 2020 or 2024, when the 5D5 and 5D6 can be compared to the 2017 Sony A9 camera.

 

[Mikehit]

Canon and Canon users consider their brand as being the #1 on the market, so my personal opinion about cameras that I bought myself and are excellent in itself, but still having a historical deficit in features compared to the competition was "shameful". It could have been another word, like disappointing or weak.
You really think the words 'shameful' and 'disapointing' are synonymous?

I don't even miss some of the features myself. But I also get a lot 'a lot'? of disappointed personal feedback from others - people who bought a 5D2 and 5D3 and now won't buy a 5D4, although it's a much stronger camera. Those people can't afford to buy several camera systems at the same time, and they rent and buy other products because they need a lot of the features the Canon cameras are missing today. Seeing this is sad and unnecessary. Can't aford to buy multiple systems but they will buy a camera made a couple of thousand more expensive by adding video features? Why don't they just by the Canon video cameras?

The Speedbooster option is the only point Canon couldn't add by changing the camera - of course. Still it is a disadvantage over Sony that can be listed. I also know that speedboosters for the 5D4 already exist, as I used 645 mount lenses on it myself. But even if full frame lenses would exist that could be mounted on the 5D4 with a speedbooster, a speedbooster option would be useless, as the camera - unlike Nikon or Sony FF cameras - doesn't offer a crop mode which is necessary (except the one exclusively for 4K). What exactly are the sales numbers for seedboosters?That will tell you if it is worth Canon's while doing all the developmental work

 

[Loswr]

Interesting. In this space there was a statement about the characteristics of some people who are not happy with different opinions, then claim there is a conspiracy theory and those with different opinions need to be systematically shut down and outlawed - and the moderator does exactly that.

So you were shut down and outlawed? How is it that you're still here, and still posting?

You and the moderator should have read word by word. People who show characteristics (!) of dictators is a valid description, when someone wants to outlaw others by pleading non-existing conspiracy theories.

Nonexistent? The complaint was about the possibility of a member creating multiple usernames and posting under them, which is a violation of the forum ToU. That's happened several times that I've seen (sometimes to support their own points, in at least one case to promote their own blog), so it's not an unreasonable suggestion. If it's going on in this case, the mods will most likely take steps, as they've done previously.

Other than that, from now on I might not have anything to write about Canon cameras anymore until the year 2020 or 2024, when the 5D5 and 5D6 can be compared to the 2017 Sony A9 camera.

I notice you include the words 'might not' so that when you soon contravene the spirit of your claim, you can claim that you technically didn't lie.

 

[douglaurent]

Interesting. In this space there was a statement about the characteristics of some people who are not happy with different opinions, then claim there is a conspiracy theory and those with different opinions need to be systematically shut down and outlawed - and the moderator does exactly that.

So you were shut down and outlawed? How is it that you're still here, and still posting?

You and the moderator should have read word by word. People who show characteristics (!) of dictators is a valid description, when someone wants to outlaw others by pleading non-existing conspiracy theories.

Nonexistent? The complaint was about the possibility of a member creating multiple usernames and posting under them, which is a violation of the forum ToU. That's happened several times that I've seen (sometimes to support their own points, in at least one case to promote their own blog), so it's not an unreasonable suggestion. If it's going on in this case, the mods will most likely take steps, as they've done previously.

Other than that, from now on I might not have anything to write about Canon cameras anymore until the year 2020 or 2024, when the 5D5 and 5D6 can be compared to the 2017 Sony A9 camera.

I notice you include the words 'might not' so that when you soon contravene the spirit of your claim, you can claim that you technically didn't lie.

One user suggested multiple times (without ANY proof and truth behind it) that all people like me who have different options are in fact the same user - and all of these accounts should be banned. Isn't that trying to outlaw others?

I understand if you rush against other opinions on the net when it comes to politics, because bad politics could make your life worse. I can also understand if you curse about celebrities, as they will have no impact on your life at all and can be annoying. But why are forum users going crazy about others that campaign to make your own next products better and cheaper? These are who I would call trolls, because it's the dumbest form of internet criticism, if you act against yourself.

But the main annoying problem of this forum is not that some users repeat themselves too often, it's the system that creates endless copies of the same text. In that regard the oldfashioned forum software behaves like Canon cameras.

Aside from that, today is a day to celebrate for Canon product owners - because through the release of the Sony A6500, over night all non-stabilized Canon lenses can be used as 5-axis stabilized lenses for the first time with a large sensor camera! That would be good blog news by the way!

 

[Loswr]

it's the system that creates endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

Erm...you do realize that you can edit the quoted text that 'the system creates' to make your replies cleaner, don't you? Or messier, as the case may be.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

 

[douglaurent]

it's the system that creates endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

Erm...you do realize that you can edit the quoted text that 'the system creates' to make your replies cleaner, don't you? Or messier, as the case may be.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

endless copies of the same text.

Yes, one could delete the text (or most of it) of the people you're replying to. But then wo understands the context, when it was spread all over many earlier pages of the thread?

Makes much more sense to have trees, like in the Disqus system that half of the planet seems to use. Each statement will only be displayed once, and everything can be found directly.

 

[Loswr]

Yes, one could delete the text (or most of it) of the people you're replying to. But then wo understands the context, when it was spread all over many earlier pages of the thread?

How, indeed? See, there's this thing formally called Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP), but most people just use the term 'link'. If you click on the excerpted quote attribution, it takes you to the full, original quote. Context...like magic! You can even follow that quote back to other quotes just by clicking. Why, it's like all of them are connected in some kind of stuck-together arrangement that can be followed from all over the planet. We should come up with some sort of useful term for that. How about the Global Broad Lattice, or GBL. Catchy, right?

 

[douglaurent]

Yes, one could delete the text (or most of it) of the people you're replying to. But then wo understands the context, when it was spread all over many earlier pages of the thread?

How, indeed? See, there's this thing formally called Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP), but most people just use the term 'link'. If you click on the excerpted quote attribution, it takes you to the full, original quote. Context...like magic! You can even follow that quote back to other quotes just by clicking. Why, it's like all of them are connected in some kind of stuck-together arrangement that can be followed from all over the planet. We should come up with some sort of useful term for that. How about the Global Broad Lattice, or GBL. Catchy, right?

So what you are saying is that all forum users including you are doing it wrong because they copy the same text over again, but you're making fun of the fact that it could be much easier and you're still not doing it that way yourself?

 

[Loswr]

So what you are saying is that all forum users including you are doing it wrong because they copy the same text over again, but you're making fun of the fact that it could be much easier and you're still not doing it that way yourself?

Sorry, but...huh? ???

 

[douglaurent]

So what you are saying is that all forum users including you are doing it wrong because they copy the same text over again, but you're making fun of the fact that it could be much easier and you're still not doing it that way yourself?

Sorry, but...huh? ???

Again you copied my text in your answer. Didn't you write it's not necessary because hyperlinks are enough?

 

[Loswr]

Again you copied my text in your answer. Didn't you write it's not necessary because hyperlinks are enough?

Yes, the relevant part, to which I was responding. You were asking for context, i.e. the text not selectively quoted, that's what the link provides. Since the act of quoting prior text creates the link, obviously that's needed...which is why your previous post (click the quote link in this post for context) was nonsensical.

I get it, you want a threaded/tree view instead of a flat view. Both have advantages and disadvantages (personally, I prefer the flat view).

Why don't you write up a list of 20 basic, necessary features that competing photo forums have that Canon Rumors forum lacks. Then explain how 50% of all people (subjectively!) are disappointed with CR forums. After that, predict doom for CR if they don't follow your extremely reasonable suggestions, because everyone will switch to other forums for those critically important features, the lack of which is preventing them from sharing their opinions here on CR. Then in 2020 you can come back here and tell us all how right you were. Mmmmkay?

 

[douglaurent]

Anyway, I remain happy with my way of thinking, which always was responsible for the situation that I can afford all products by all brands through self earned money - making it possible to compare and go a bit deeper.

Thee whole nature of the planet is based on change and progress - if Canon and some users want to slow it down, and most don't care, in the longterm it mostly will be their problem.

My favourite part of this thread is that I was remembering Canon did release a 750D and 760D with and without articulating screen - as I couldn't imagine that they indeed only released an alternative version of a camera just to eliminate a top display and rear wheel.

Finding this fact again maybe shows best which confusing path Canon has taken. Amateur cams do have a swivel screen, pro cams don't because pros are so stupid and break it? Or pros are geniuses that always want to lie down in the mud or jump in the air to get the shots? Is it definite that 100% of all pros never want an articulating screen? I guess not, as all people I met would like to have one.