Review: Canon RF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM by TDP

Bdbtoys

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I figured I would comment on the review itself, rather than get caught up in side discussions. I like what the 70-200/4 has to offer and felt this review was pretty informative and actually spot on with what I suspected. It will most likely earn a spot in my collection... at some point (just not yet, partially because I already have the 2.8).

Here were my 2 biggest takeaway's directly quoted from the review (when compared to the f2.8), which I don't think is a surprise to most here.
"If the size, weight, and price differences are not an issue, get the f/2.8 lens. Otherwise, the F4 lens has your name on it."
"The ideal kit will include both lenses, as I mentioned at the beginning of this review."
 
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jd7

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Bokeh is not synonymous with blur. While this is obvious to just about everyone reading it, the point isn't to just maximize blur, but to get the highest quality blur. Although there is a clear correlation between large aperture and blur, just having a large aperture for a given focal length doesn't make it the best. Take two different 85mm f/1.4 lenses, say a Canon EF and a Sigma, and the bokeh will differ (I won't opine as to which is better). The 200mm f/2.0 arguably has among the best bokeh, but the RF 85mm 1.2 and Nikon 105mm 1.4 are right there with it. My RF 70-200 f/2.8 produces the most pleasing bokeh I've seen in a zoom lens. The Sigma 70-180 f/2.8 for Sony is purportedly sharper than the RF version, but its bokeh is underwhelming at best. I have both lenses and have basically not touched the Sigma since acquiring the Canon because the difference is that noticeable. I haven't tried the new f/4 version, but from my experience with previous f/4 zooms (multiple 70-200 and 24-105 lenses), there is a difference in rendering that leaves me cold. Sure, these lenses probably look very similar stopped down to f/8, but unless I'm shooting landscapes, I try to keep my aperture at f/5.6 or larger.
Errrr ... there is no Sigma 70-180 f/2.8 for Sony. Do you mean the Tamron 70-180 f/2.8? I haven't used that Tamron myself, but I thought it was meant to have pretty good bokeh ...? Assuming you meant the Tamron lens, I gather you do not agree about its bokeh!

+1 to the part in red! Athough the word "bokeh" is so often misused as a synonym for blur that I guess maybe its meaning will end up changing so it really does just mean blur. (I am referring to the meaning of the word in English, of course, not Japanese.)
 
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Billybob

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Errrr ... there is no Sigma 70-180 f/2.8 for Sony. Do you mean the Tamron 70-180 f/2.8? I haven't used that Tamron myself, but I thought it was meant to have pretty good bokeh ...? Assuming you meant the Tamron lens, I gather you do not agree about its bokeh!

+1 to the part in red! Athough the word "bokeh" is so often misused as a synonym for blur that I guess may its meaning will end up changing so it really does just mean blur. (I am referring to the meaning of the word in English, of course, not Japanese.)
Yes, you are correct, I meant the Tamron 70-180 (I've corrected my error in the original post to avoid confusing future readers). I guess some elements of bokeh are subjective, but compared to the RF 70-200--I have both lenses--the Tamron's bokeh is clearly inferior. Maybe that's not a major criticism considering how good is the bokeh produced by the Canon, but opticallimits.com also found issues with the Tamron bokeh observing significant "onion ringing" and outlining in bokeh balls. Of course it's hard to be worst than the bokeh on the Nikon 24-85 G lens. Yes, there was plenty of blur, but it was absolutely hideous.
 
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Ozarker

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Why are you spending your time attacking fellow group members instead of talking cameras? Even if your insult was correct--it's not--I don't post in this group to be personally attacked. It's kind of depressing to think that you've got the time and will to do so.
OMG.... just face it, you lost the election, by a lot. Bigly. Keep repeating you were being attacked. You weren’t.

oh, wait... wrong dude. Sorta.
 
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jd7

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Yes, you are correct, I meant the Tamron 70-180 (I've corrected my error in the original post to avoid confusing future readers). I guess some elements of bokeh are subjective, but compared to the RF 70-200--I have both lenses--the Tamron's bokeh is clearly inferior. Maybe that's not a major criticism considering how good is the bokeh produced by the Canon, but opticallimits.com also found issues with the Tamron bokeh observing significant "onion ringing" and outlining in bokeh balls. Of course it's hard to be worst than the bokeh on the Nikon 24-85 G lens. Yes, there was plenty of blur, but it was absolutely hideous.
I have read plenty of people singing the praises of the bokeh of the RF 70-200, so you certainly aren't alone in that regard (and I've liked the samples I've seen). I've generally heard good things about the Tamron lens too though (including its bokeh), and obviously the price of the Tamron adds to its appeal, but interesting you like the bokeh of the Canon so much more. Hopefully I will get a chance to try both lenses for myself sometime and see what I think. Of course, it would be more relevant to me if I'd made the move to a mirrorless camera :)
 
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PBG

Jul 21, 2020
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Overall, the RF 70-200 f/4 looks amazing. If Canon comes out with a small/light RF 24-70 f/4 or maybe RF 15-35 f/4, I can see picking up either of those and the RF70-200 f/4 and having an exceptional light weight travel oriented kit. Even with my f/1.4 primes, I often drop down to f/4-f/5.6 for DOF issues. The blur is often very attractive as long as I pay attention to various distances. If I have a light/small capable standard kit, as I transition to RF glass, I could see focusing more on primes or heavy glass like the 28-70 f/2 for "when I want them glass."

But, this is where I think I will stay with EF glass for a while longer. I am not sure how I want to construct my RF kit because I am not sure exactly what Canon is going to offer. I have EF zooms and primes that are already a great kit. For now, I take pictures with my R5 and EF glass and wonder which RF lens will be my first.
This is where I was. My EF kit with R6 was 24/2.8 IS, 40 pancake, and 100L Macro. Just got the RF 70-200/4 yesterday and it's marvelous.

Hoping for a 24-70/4 to pair it with, and down the line perhaps RF 50/1.4 and a 24 (as long as they have good USM AF).
 
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Never say never. I just want to make one more comment.

I think someone mentioned this before, but it bares repeating. The 2.8 zooms are better optically in almost every way than their 4.0 counterparts. This is true for the 70-200 siblings. I went to TDP and looked at the review of the new f/4 zoom. Stopping down the 2.8 to 4.0 produces sharper images at every focal length, with less CA and less vignetting. So, the old truism holds here that a lens stopped down is usually better than a lens wide open. Thus, if you value that extra bit of IQ, you'll get it with 2.8 zooms (definitely in the case of 70-200 zooms).

70-200: f/4 versus f/2.8 IQ from TDP
True, but as always, depends on user case.
Landscape photographer would shoot both stopped down to f/8, f/11 where this IQ advantage is dismissed.
 
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Billybob

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True, but as always, depends on user case.
Landscape photographer would shoot both stopped down to f/8, f/11 where this IQ advantage is dismissed.
No, what I stated wasn't conditional. My conclusion was that if you value the extra bit of IQ at 2.8 and 4.0, then you will prefer the 2.8 zoom over the 4.0 zoom. I agree with you that there often isn't much difference stopping these lenses down to f/8 or smaller apertures. If so--if you're a photographer who always shoots at f/8 and smaller apertures--then you are almost certainly not in the category that values better IQ at larger apertures. Thus, photogs who do value that better IQ have to decide whether it makes sense to pay the extortionary markup for 2.8 or whether they are okay purchasing the more affordable 4.0 lens with modestly lower IQ and reduced bulk.
 
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stevelee

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Don't get me wrong, the 24-105/4 is a very good lens, but I called it 'kit lens' by definition alone... being that it's a lens you buy factory bundled with the camera body (in the same box). Granted there are non-L's available as a kit lenses too, but IIRC this lens was the default kit lens for the R... and is currently the only one for the R5/R6. Only later did they start packing the non-L 24-105 and the 24-240 as a cheaper kit. Also, It is probably the best kit lens I've seen, but ironically on your point on what 'kit' implies... I literally thought exactly that, in that the f4 was 'good enough' until I saved (more like waited for a sale) for the 2.8's. Disclaimer... I originally went for the 28-70/2 & 70-200/2.8 as the replacements, but the f2 was too unwieldly, so I went with the 24-70/2.8 instead.

I had the 24-105/4 and sold it. After filling out my 'first-choice' lenses, I may get it again as a versatile, light-weight walk-around (if it's on a good enough sale)... but it is not the be-all/end-all that you are making it out to be.


I will never look down on anyone that says a particular lens is the best for them... however claiming the f4's are superior to the f2.8's as a blanket statement is flat out wrong. The 2.8's are superior in all aspects except size/weight/cost when compared to the f4's at the same focal length. All you have to do is look at any of the many reviews to see that. Also you can't fake out 1 full stop of light (however the R series does a great job with less light... but again 1 stop less, is still 1 less). However... I can pretty much assure you that no one here would disagree with you if your statement was 'the f4's are superior to the 2.8's for your use'.

For reference, I was once in your camp... and thought the 24-105/4 was great when paired with primes (specifically I paired it with the 50/1.2), actually I still think it is. But I found with the 2.8, I don't really need to pack the primes for most situations I go to. Or if I do, I do something like 50/1.2 + 70-200/2.8 so I'm not carrying around 2 lenses in the same focal range unless absolutely needed.
When I bought the 6D2, I chose the STM lens as my kit lens. I figured it would be good enough to hold me until I decided what lenses I wanted to buy. I have been very pleasantly surprised with the quality and usefulness. It is now the vin ordinaire for my shooting. To the primes I already had, I added the 100–400mm II and the 16–35mm f/4 zooms and a refurb 85 f/1.8. At this point, I wouldn't miss the extra $300 in my checking account because I didn't get the L kit lens, but I can't say I regret the choice. It doesn't inspire me to a GAS attack, and I haven't taken a picture with it that lead me to wish it had been a better lens.

As for the discussion of bucket (I prefer the "Keeping Up Appearances" spelling), I think the best is the one that does call attention to itself and distract from the subject. When I look at a nearby person, I'm aware that there are things behind her that are out of focus, but I'm not assaulted by the cat's-eye shaped lights or even a creamy blurriness. Those things are fine as special effects, and that is the statement you want to make. But usually I just want the background blur to look natural and if anything add to the general atmosphere. I guess I am not a photographer's photographer, wanting mainly impress people with my lens collection.
 
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stevelee

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@stevelee I have to admit, I'm a bit lost why you quoted my post. Seems like we are talking about 2 different things... especially if read in the context of what I was responding to (which is left out of a double quote).
My first paragraph was in response to your “kit lens” discussion. The second paragraph dealt with the more general discussion about f/2.8 vs f/4 lenses and the need for additional blurriness, and was not a reply directly to a specific thing you said.
 
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Bdbtoys

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My first paragraph was in response to your “kit lens” discussion. The second paragraph dealt with the more general discussion about f/2.8 vs f/4 lenses and the need for additional blurriness, and was not a reply directly to a specific thing you said.

Gotcha... Note however, my original 'kit lens' reply was not to undermine the lens... but to explain why I called it a kit lens.

I was super happy w/ a EF-S 24-135 STM kit lens for the longest time when I was using a 70D.
 
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stevelee

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Gotcha... Note however, my original 'kit lens' reply was not to undermine the lens... but to explain why I called it a kit lens.

I was super happy w/ a EF-S 24-135 STM kit lens for the longest time when I was using a 70D.
It sounds like I didn’t make it clear enough that I was agreeing with you, and adding that you don’t even have to go all the way with the L lens. There have been enough crummy kit lenses to give them a bad name. But recent EF 24-105mm kits lenses have been fine.
 
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