Samsung S7 has dual pixel auto focusing

[Tugela]

Apparently the new Galaxy S7 has dual pixel autofocusing included. Wonder where Samsung got that from......

This might explain Samsungs abrupt exit from the camera market.

 

[weixing]

Apparently the new Galaxy S7 has dual pixel autofocusing included. Wonder where Samsung got that from......

This might explain Samsungs abrupt exit from the camera market.

Hi,
They didn't exit the camera market... only certain country.

Anyway, I also surprise to see they use dual pixel sensor for their S7... will be interesting to know did they get it from Canon.

Have a nice day.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

While Samsung calls it Dual Pixel Autofocusing, that does not mean it is the same as Canon. Using two pixels for Autofocus can be called Dual Pixel.

It will be interesting to see if a further explanation is available.

As I understand it, the software is the big issue, particularly if you want to track a object. Just the AF of a still object is relatively easily, but tracking AF gets complex.

Korean and Japanese companies normally do not cooperate or share patents, so if its close enough to Canon's patent, we'll see another lawsuit.

 

[weixing]

While Samsung calls it Dual Pixel Autofocusing, that does not mean it is the same as Canon. Using two pixels for Autofocus can be called Dual Pixel.

It will be interesting to see if a further explanation is available.

As I understand it, the software is the big issue, particularly if you want to track a object. Just the AF of a still object is relatively easily, but tracking AF gets complex.

Korean and Japanese companies normally do not cooperate or share patents, so if its close enough to Canon's patent, we'll see another lawsuit.

Hi,
Taken the below on this: https://news.samsung.com/global/setting-a-new-standard-in-mobile-photography-the-camera-of-the-galaxy-s7

The Dual Pixel image sensor employed in the camera of the Galaxy S7 splits every single pixel into two photodiodes for on-chip phase detection, promising vastly improved autofocus performance.

Dual Pixel technology, which is utilized in selective, high-end DSLR camera models, as well as those of the Galaxy S7, sends light from the lens to two image sensors separately to adjust the focus, much in the same way that the human eye does.

Base on those description, it's look close enough to Canon Dual Pixel technology... it's also mention that this Dual Pixel technology is in some "high-end DSLR camera" and as far as I know, only Canon DSLR use Dual Pixel technology. Hmm... this is getting interesting... ;D

Have a nice day.

 

[traveller]

Is there patent swapping going on here? It would be unusual for a Japanese company to cooperate with a South Korean one, but perhaps Sony's growing dominance of the sensor market is forcing hands...

Or we're about to see a legal battle!

 

[3kramd5]

Patents are easy enough to get around. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on it being a Samsung or Sony sensor.

 

[ritholtz]

Another interesting development is LG equipped G5 with two cameras. One camera gives normal FOV (probably 30mm). Another one gives FOV equivalent of 10mm (I think). Basically, they can add multiple cameras in order to covers FL situations.

 

[traveller]

Patents are easy enough to get around. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on it being a Samsung or Sony sensor.

Samsung appear to have used both their own and Sony's sensor for the S6 generation, but I believe the term dual pixel AF is also a Canon trademark, which implies there is more to this than simple patent circumventing. DPAF must be implemented at sensor level, it's not just a mask over the top of the sensor, so Samsung can't just add it to their existing or Sony designed sensors.

Is Samsung licensing the technology from Canon, or was it swapped for something else, like Samsung's on-chip ADC design? Now I'm in the realms of speculation, but perhaps there is no coincidence between Samsung suddenly acquiring DPAF and Canon suddenly acquiring one chip ADC designs...

 

[weixing]

Patents are easy enough to get around. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on it being a Samsung or Sony sensor.

Samsung appear to have used both their own and Sony's sensor for the S6 generation, but I believe the term dual pixel AF is also a Canon trademark, which implies there is more to this than simple patent circumventing. DPAF must be implemented at sensor level, it's not just a mask over the top of the sensor, so Samsung can't just add it to their existing or Sony designed sensors.

Is Samsung licensing the technology from Canon, or was it swapped for something else, like Samsung's on-chip ADC design? Now I'm in the realms of speculation, but perhaps there is no coincidence between Samsung suddenly acquiring DPAF and Canon suddenly acquiring one chip ADC designs...

Hi,
Samsung recently filed a trademark "DUO PIXEL" (http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86833892&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch) which I assume will be used for this feature, but are they allow to register their own trademark on it if Samsung is licensing the DPAF from Canon??

Have a nice day.

 

[rrcphoto]

IMO Samsung would not have stated:

Dual Pixel technology, which is utilized in selective, high-end DSLR camera models, as well as those of the Galaxy S7

if it wasn't Canon technology. otherwise what would be the point, admitting they infringed on canon's patents?

 

[9VIII]

I would much rather hear that it's a patent swap, those Samsung sensors had incredibly fast readout. If Canon comes out with a ball tracking feature for taking pictures of a baseball as the batter hits it then we'll know what happened.

But even if Canon is just getting some fab time with Samsung, that would be big news.
In interviews Canon always says that they use the best sensor technology available, and they've noted how expensive it is to upgrade facilities for stuff like DPAF. Maybe this could be the start of a shift to third party fabrication.
The next interview is going to be very interesting.

 

[3kramd5]

but I believe the term dual pixel AF is also a Canon trademark, which implies there is more to this than simple patent circumventing

As far as I can tell, Samsung calls is dual pixel technology, not DPAF.

DPAF must be implemented at sensor level, it's not just a mask over the top of the sensor, so Samsung can't just add it to their existing or Sony designed sensors.

This is a new sensor.

Is Samsung licensing the technology from Canon, or was it swapped for something else, like Samsung's on-chip ADC design? Now I'm in the realms of speculation, but perhaps there is no coincidence between Samsung suddenly acquiring DPAF and Canon suddenly acquiring one chip ADC designs...

I kinda doubt there is any sharing. It's possible, sure, but Canon has had on-chip ADC patents for a long time.

 

[3kramd5]

IMO Samsung would not have stated:

Dual Pixel technology, which is utilized in selective, high-end DSLR camera models, as well as those of the Galaxy S7

if it wasn't Canon technology. otherwise what would be the point, admitting they infringed on canon's patents?

Why would they state that? Marketing; they're drawing a favorable comparison between their smartphone's capabilities and those of high-end DSLRs.

If it were canon technology, would they evasively state "selective, high-end DSLR camera models" rather than citing Canon? Maybe canon licensed IP to samsung. Maybe samsung found a slightly different approach to the same thing (the most common way to get around patents). Shrug, none of it really matters much.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Shrug, none of it really matters much.

The reason is matters is that Nikon was incorrectly rumored to have purchased Samsungs NX technology(Both Samsung and Nikon denied this), but perhaps Canon came up with a counter offer to purchase sensors from sensors or have them manufactured by Samsung, and the right to use dual pixel tech for camera phone sensors was payment. That's pretty far out, but, if Samsung has been shopping for a partner, perhaps we'll hear a announcement. We did hear a rumor that Canon was testing sensors from another manufacturer not long ago.

 

[3kramd5]

Shrug, none of it really matters much.

The reason is matters is that Nikon was incorrectly rumored to have purchased Samsungs NX technology(Both Samsung and Nikon denied this), but perhaps Canon came up with a counter offer to purchase sensors from sensors or have them manufactured by Samsung, and the right to use dual pixel tech for camera phone sensors was payment.

It mattes because of something else which doesn't matter

Why should I care who developed the constituent technology (canon DPAF in a Samsung phone), or built the constituent parts (Samsung sensor in a canon camera), as long as the system works well?

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Shrug, none of it really matters much.

The reason is matters is that Nikon was incorrectly rumored to have purchased Samsungs NX technology(Both Samsung and Nikon denied this), but perhaps Canon came up with a counter offer to purchase sensors from sensors or have them manufactured by Samsung, and the right to use dual pixel tech for camera phone sensors was payment.

we discuss hardware here, and the design or change of manufacturer is something of interest to many.

If you are not interested, that's fine.

Contribute something positive rather than negative and we will all benefit more.

It mattes because of something else which doesn't matter

Why should I care who developed the constituent technology (canon DPAF in a Samsung phone), or built the constituent parts (Samsung sensor in a canon camera), as long as the system works well?

 

[3kramd5]

I'm certainly interested, else I wouldn't have read the post. Particularly I'm interested in how well it works, since most smartphone AF is atrocious.

It just strikes me as a weird thing to speculate about, but fair enough, speculate away.

 

[zim]

FWIW looks like a Sony sensor

http://www.gsmarena.com/galaxy_s7_and_s7_edge_found_to_sport_sony_imx260_camera_sensor_custom_audio_chip-blog-16827.php

 

[expatinasia]

FWIW looks like a Sony sensor

http://www.gsmarena.com/galaxy_s7_and_s7_edge_found_to_sport_sony_imx260_camera_sensor_custom_audio_chip-blog-16827.php

Yes, you are right. The video embedded towards the bottom of this page shows how fast it is:

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsungs_dual_pixel_tech_is_like_canons_dual_pixel_auto_focus-news-16805.php

I am really looking forward to seeing some proper reviews on this smartphone camera. I am still on a Note 3, but some of the features of the S7 Edge look very nice.

 

[rrcphoto]

FWIW looks like a Sony sensor

http://www.gsmarena.com/galaxy_s7_and_s7_edge_found_to_sport_sony_imx260_camera_sensor_custom_audio_chip-blog-16827.php

Yes, you are right. The video embedded towards the bottom of this page shows how fast it is:

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsungs_dual_pixel_tech_is_like_canons_dual_pixel_auto_focus-news-16805.php

I am really looking forward to seeing some proper reviews on this smartphone camera. I am still on a Note 3, but some of the features of the S7 Edge look very nice.

except the IMX260 doesn't have split / dual pixels though does it?

I wonder how sony got around that?