Samsung S7 has dual pixel auto focusing

[expatinasia]

except the IMX260 doesn't have split / dual pixels though does it?

I wonder how sony got around that?

It must, mustn't it? That's what Samsung are saying. Why do you think it does not?

Here is a video of the dark room that Samsung set up at the S7 booth at MWC so people could test the phone camera in low light:

http://phandroid.com/2016/02/22/samsung-galaxy-s7-vs-s6-vs-iphone-6s-low-light-camera-comparison-video/

 

[3kramd5]

I can find no reference to the sensor which doesn't include mention of the Samsung phone. The wiki entry lists March 2016 as release date. With evidently no other devices using the module, and samsung's presser to go by, I can think of no reason to suspect it doesn't have multiple diodes per pixel.

 

[kphoto99]

I can find no reference to the sensor which doesn't include mention of the Samsung phone. The wiki entry lists March 2016 as release date. With evidently no other devices using the module, and samsung's presser to go by, I can think of no reason to suspect it doesn't have multiple diodes per pixel.

Is it not possible to use two pixels that are side by side to do the AF instead of having a single pixel that has two diodes?

 

[expatinasia]

Is it not possible to use two pixels that are side by side to do the AF instead of having a single pixel that has two diodes?

I am not good at the tech side of things, but wouldn't you then need to double the amount of pixels to get the same result?

However they do it the low light capabilities are very impressive if that video in the dark room is anything to go by, Definitely a lot better than the S6.

 

[weixing]

I can find no reference to the sensor which doesn't include mention of the Samsung phone. The wiki entry lists March 2016 as release date. With evidently no other devices using the module, and samsung's presser to go by, I can think of no reason to suspect it doesn't have multiple diodes per pixel.

Is it not possible to use two pixels that are side by side to do the AF instead of having a single pixel that has two diodes?

Hi,
Not sure is it possible, but might not be accurate as the adjacent pixel will see different color in a bayer sensor. Also, if you use other same pixel and because it's a different pixel, any differences between the microlens above the pixel might produce inaccurate result, so I guess it's the best to split the pixel under the same microlens.

Have a nice day.

 

[rrcphoto]

except the IMX260 doesn't have split / dual pixels though does it?

I wonder how sony got around that?

It must, mustn't it? That's what Samsung are saying. Why do you think it does not?

Here is a video of the dark room that Samsung set up at the S7 booth at MWC so people could test the phone camera in low light:

http://phandroid.com/2016/02/22/samsung-galaxy-s7-vs-s6-vs-iphone-6s-low-light-camera-comparison-video/

except of sony semiconductor released a DPAF sensor, we would heard about it. as a matter of fact, their latest sensors for phones make no mention and do not have DPAF.

the only think I can think of, is that it's a custom sensor created for Samsung, using Samsung's IP.

which still leaves the question - why the reference that the same technology (which is totally patented by canon) is used on the S7 and DSLR's.

Still curious.


for example, their latest sensor:

"Image plane phase detection AF: Utilizes dedicated image plane phase detection AF pixels embedded throughout the image sensor pixel array."

certainly NOT dual pixel split AF.

 

[rrcphoto]

Is it not possible to use two pixels that are side by side to do the AF instead of having a single pixel that has two diodes?

I am not good at the tech side of things, but wouldn't you then need to double the amount of pixels to get the same result?

However they do it the low light capabilities are very impressive if that video in the dark room is anything to go by, Definitely a lot better than the S6.

the two pixels have to be under the same microlens / CFA and as well the "direction" is flipped for the pixel sensitivity. it's not just a matter of slicing the bugger in half.

 

[expatinasia]

except of sony semiconductor released a DPAF sensor, we would heard about it. as a matter of fact, their latest sensors for phones make no mention and do not have DPAF.

the only think I can think of, is that it's a custom sensor created for Samsung, using Samsung's IP.

which still leaves the question - why the reference that the same technology (which is totally patented by canon) is used on the S7 and DSLR's.

Still curious.


for example, their latest sensor:

"Image plane phase detection AF: Utilizes dedicated image plane phase detection AF pixels embedded throughout the image sensor pixel array."

certainly NOT dual pixel split AF.

I read that:

"The Dual Pixel image sensor employed in the cameras splits every single pixel into two photodiodes for on-chip phase detection".

But like I said, I am not really very good at the tech side of things. All I know is that phandroid video in a dark room is very impressive, as is the other video mentioned which looks more at AF speed.

I am looking forward to the proper reviews on this phone, as it may finally be time to upgrade from my Note 3.

 

[3kramd5]

except the IMX260 doesn't have split / dual pixels though does it?

I wonder how sony got around that?

It must, mustn't it? That's what Samsung are saying. Why do you think it does not?

Here is a video of the dark room that Samsung set up at the S7 booth at MWC so people could test the phone camera in low light:

http://phandroid.com/2016/02/22/samsung-galaxy-s7-vs-s6-vs-iphone-6s-low-light-camera-comparison-video/

except of sony semiconductor released a DPAF sensor, we would heard about it. as a matter of fact, their latest sensors for phones make no mention and do not have DPAF.

Except this sensor isn't out in a device yet. This is us hearing about it

 

[Woody]

Is Samsung licensing the technology from Canon, or was it swapped for something else, like Samsung's on-chip ADC design? Now I'm in the realms of speculation, but perhaps there is no coincidence between Samsung suddenly acquiring DPAF and Canon suddenly acquiring one chip ADC designs...

That was the first thought that came to my mind...

I'm sure someone will pop this question to Canon / Samsung execs in an interview at some point. Curious to know hear their official replies...

 

[Famateur]

My First Thought: Canon is making the sensor for the Samsung phone? Cool! Oh, wait -- it's not a Canon sensor.

My Second Thought: Samsung is licensing Dual Pixel AF from Canon? Cool! Oh, wait -- it's a Sony sensor.

My Third Thought: If Sony has their own version of Dual Pixel AF, that's a huge deal in the DSLR and MILC world.

How interesting it would be if Canon traded* with Sony: DPAF for on-chip ADC.

* I can't see that happening, though. Contrary to drivelers on forums, I think Sony is lagging more without DPAF than Canon is lagging without on-chip ADC. Would be an uneven trade where Sony comes out ahead. Maybe that get's ironed out in licensing restrictions...

 

[rrcphoto]

except the IMX260 doesn't have split / dual pixels though does it?

I wonder how sony got around that?

It must, mustn't it? That's what Samsung are saying. Why do you think it does not?

Here is a video of the dark room that Samsung set up at the S7 booth at MWC so people could test the phone camera in low light:

http://phandroid.com/2016/02/22/samsung-galaxy-s7-vs-s6-vs-iphone-6s-low-light-camera-comparison-video/

except of sony semiconductor released a DPAF sensor, we would heard about it. as a matter of fact, their latest sensors for phones make no mention and do not have DPAF.

Except this sensor isn't out in a device yet. This is us hearing about it

except they're already announced up to IMX312.
do the math.
and IMX312 does not have DPAF.

and yes, they are numbered in order pretty much.

 

[rrcphoto]

My First Thought: Canon is making the sensor for the Samsung phone? Cool! Oh, wait -- it's not a Canon sensor.

My Second Thought: Samsung is licensing Dual Pixel AF from Canon? Cool! Oh, wait -- it's a Sony sensor.

My Third Thought: If Sony has their own version of Dual Pixel AF, that's a huge deal in the DSLR and MILC world.

How interesting it would be if Canon traded* with Sony: DPAF for on-chip ADC.

* I can't see that happening, though. Contrary to drivelers on forums, I think Sony is lagging more without DPAF than Canon is lagging without on-chip ADC. Would be an uneven trade where Sony comes out ahead. Maybe that get's ironed out in licensing restrictions...

I don't know.. if Canon and Sony exchanged patents on that, how come their just announced sensors do not have DPAF, but a few years old sensor does?

Second, the display that was being tossed around was from an app, not from something from Samsung. It could be wrong - ie: looking at an ID tag and "assuming" it's an IMX260. (the same thing happened on the Note 4 btw)

But let's think about this..

1. Samsung quietly and quickly shuts down their Camera line. I mean quickly, they just shut down samsungcamera.com overnight in early January without even a comment.

2. Canon starts to create sensors with high DR / ADC on chip - and are VERY quiet about the sensor.

3. Samsung magically has DPAF in their latest top of the line smartphones.

4. Samsung randomly decides to cross comment and mention that some DSLR's in the world have DPAF in their press announcement and have the same technology. They don't mention them by name, but only 3 in the world have it, by canon.

Everything there a coincidence, or just a random act?

edit: btw, it seems inside of the kernel samsung simply reports back a string - it's not even an ID tag, etc from the actual sensor.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=55749031&postcount=44

 

[3kramd5]

except the IMX260 doesn't have split / dual pixels though does it?

I wonder how sony got around that?

It must, mustn't it? That's what Samsung are saying. Why do you think it does not?

Here is a video of the dark room that Samsung set up at the S7 booth at MWC so people could test the phone camera in low light:

http://phandroid.com/2016/02/22/samsung-galaxy-s7-vs-s6-vs-iphone-6s-low-light-camera-comparison-video/

except of sony semiconductor released a DPAF sensor, we would heard about it. as a matter of fact, their latest sensors for phones make no mention and do not have DPAF.

Except this sensor isn't out in a device yet. This is us hearing about it

except they're already announced up to IMX312.
do the math.
and IMX312 does not have DPAF.

and yes, they are numbered in order pretty much.

Perhaps, perhaps not.

Is is possible Samsung is lying about the sensor architecture or that the listed sensor in the data dump is incorrect?

Sure.

Is it possible the pixels are split and there hasn't yet been a firmware and software implementation to use them for focus?

Sure. Case in point, the C100 had a DPAF-compatible sensor, but the tech was first announced and introduced a year later in the EOS70D.

 

[kphoto99]

4. Samsung randomly decides to cross comment and mention that some DSLR's in the world have DPAF in their press announcement and have the same technology. They don't mention them by name, but only 3 in the world have it, by canon.

Samsung wants customers to think that the camera in the phone has a similar pedigree as a high end DSLR.
All it is, is marketing "our cameras are as good as DSLR", or "who needs a DSLR when a Samsung phone has the same technology as a DSLR". Implying that it takes as good pictures as a DSLR.

 

[Tugela]

FWIW looks like a Sony sensor

http://www.gsmarena.com/galaxy_s7_and_s7_edge_found_to_sport_sony_imx260_camera_sensor_custom_audio_chip-blog-16827.php

And they would know this how? Considering that the phone has been announced but not released yet.

 

[Tugela]

I can find no reference to the sensor which doesn't include mention of the Samsung phone. The wiki entry lists March 2016 as release date. With evidently no other devices using the module, and samsung's presser to go by, I can think of no reason to suspect it doesn't have multiple diodes per pixel.

Is it not possible to use two pixels that are side by side to do the AF instead of having a single pixel that has two diodes?

According to Samsung's web page for the S7:

"Each and every one of the pixels on the image sensor has two photodiodes instead of one, meaning the professional-grade Dual Pixel Sensor can focus as quickly and as accurately as you would with your own eyes."

 

[expatinasia]

This video from cnet is from the actual S7 presentation and explains a lot about the camera in the two phones as well as the AF.

http://www.cnet.com/videos/samsung-demos-new-feature-rich-galaxy-s7-camera/

 

[zim]

FWIW looks like a Sony sensor

http://www.gsmarena.com/galaxy_s7_and_s7_edge_found_to_sport_sony_imx260_camera_sensor_custom_audio_chip-blog-16827.php

And they would know this how? Considering that the phone has been announced but not released yet.

Teardown by someone? supplier parts lists? who knows, ask them!
You do know what FWIW means :

 

[rrcphoto]

4. Samsung randomly decides to cross comment and mention that some DSLR's in the world have DPAF in their press announcement and have the same technology. They don't mention them by name, but only 3 in the world have it, by canon.

Samsung wants customers to think that the camera in the phone has a similar pedigree as a high end DSLR.
All it is, is marketing "our cameras are as good as DSLR", or "who needs a DSLR when a Samsung phone has the same technology as a DSLR". Implying that it takes as good pictures as a DSLR.

okay sure mr eeyore.

the point being is that why would they mention it was the same technology if it was not. not "similar" the same.

"Dual Pixel technology, which is utilized in selective, high-end DSLR camera models, as well as those of the Galaxy S7"

means the same technology. Not similar technology, the same.

on a press release, which is considered a pretty important document, legally and securities wise.