Samyang unveils lenses with AF

[ahsanford]

http://petapixel.com/2016/05/03/samyang-unveils-first-af-primes-50mm-f1-4-14mm-f2-8-sony/

Only for Sony right now, but one might imagine that could change.

- A

 

[AvTvM]

Finally! Excellent. For mirrorless full frame. 8)
Makes Sony A7II series even more attractive, when there is decent AF glass at decent prices. Not just absurdly priced Sony/Zeiss lenses.

 

[TeT]

Nice.... Samyang is easy to love; cheap with good IQ is the absolute worst that anyone could say about them.

AF is a big step forward... will be watching for the next step...

 

[lholmes549]

This is very interesting!

It seems strange that they would choose the 14mm as one of the first to get AF though, as many who use it are happy to manual focus for their applications...personally I'd love to see the 85mm f/1.4 get the AF treatment next!

 

[ahsanford]

Curious to see what drove the 'We'll try Sony first' business model. Could be any of the below, right?

• A straight off the sensor mirrorless AF system easier to design AF for than an SLR
• The SLR lens space is pretty crowded with comprehensive Canon / Nikon / Sigma / Tamron options, while Sony still has a fairly skinny (native mount) lens lineup
• Sony has dirt cheap lenses and explosively pricey lenses -- the 'porridge is just right' Sigma Art sort of $799 market segment is underserved with (native mount) Sony glass presently

Which do you think drove Samyang to choose Sony first?

- A

 

[kphoto99]

Maybe Sony was willing to license the AF protocol to them at a reasonable price. I think that Canon is not willing to license it to non Japanese firms.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Several Years ago Sony made their AF protocol available to third party lens makers because they wanted more lenses available in a short time. I think Sigma and Tamron took advantage of that, and Zeiss had it as well, since they made lenses for Sony.

That was something unique driven out of desperation to gain a foothold in the camera market at a time when they had just around 2% market share.

 

[Random Orbits]

Curious to see what drove the 'We'll try Sony first' business model. Could be any of the below, right?

• A straight off the sensor mirrorless AF system easier to design AF for than an SLR
• The SLR lens space is pretty crowded with comprehensive Canon / Nikon / Sigma / Tamron options, while Sony still has a fairly skinny (native mount) lens lineup
• Sony has dirt cheap lenses and explosively pricey lenses -- the 'porridge is just right' Sigma Art sort of $799 market segment is underserved with (native mount) Sony glass presently

Which do you think drove Samyang to choose Sony first?

- A

It'll be interesting to see whether Sony's decision to license out the AF algorithms hurt them in the long term. Maybe Sony becomes only a camera manufacturer and not a system/lens manufacturer like Canon/Nikon. Canon and Nikon can charge a premium for first party integration. Now Sony has to be price competitive in both bodies and lenses. Might be good for the user in the short term but it may limit their ability to build out their own lens ecosystem.

 

[ahsanford]

Curious to see what drove the 'We'll try Sony first' business model. Could be any of the below, right?

• A straight off the sensor mirrorless AF system easier to design AF for than an SLR
• The SLR lens space is pretty crowded with comprehensive Canon / Nikon / Sigma / Tamron options, while Sony still has a fairly skinny (native mount) lens lineup
• Sony has dirt cheap lenses and explosively pricey lenses -- the 'porridge is just right' Sigma Art sort of $799 market segment is underserved with (native mount) Sony glass presently

Which do you think drove Samyang to choose Sony first?

- A

It'll be interesting to see whether Sony's decision to license out the AF algorithms hurt them in the long term. Maybe Sony becomes only a camera manufacturer and not a system/lens manufacturer like Canon/Nikon. Canon and Nikon can charge a premium for first party integration. Now Sony has to be price competitive in both bodies and lenses. Might be good for the user in the short term but it may limit their ability to build out their own lens ecosystem.

Unless you are Apple and favor a premium closed ecosystem -- which Sony cannot do as a fledgling imaging platform -- you generally want a bigger ecosystem more than you want an exclusive ecosystem. Those other companies' lenses might hurt Sony's native lens margins, but they are building up the options of the brand faster than Sony can by itself. That is vital in amassing new users and (eventually) converting The CaNikon crowd.

- A

 

[9VIII]

Almost as important as the introduction of Samyang lenses with AF: Don't mess with the Beaver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff3Q4VAsi6w


I really, honestly and truly had no idea they were so mobile.
I've come fairly close to beavers in the water many times, but I've never seen one on land. Thank goodness for that.

 

[Random Orbits]

Curious to see what drove the 'We'll try Sony first' business model. Could be any of the below, right?

• A straight off the sensor mirrorless AF system easier to design AF for than an SLR
• The SLR lens space is pretty crowded with comprehensive Canon / Nikon / Sigma / Tamron options, while Sony still has a fairly skinny (native mount) lens lineup
• Sony has dirt cheap lenses and explosively pricey lenses -- the 'porridge is just right' Sigma Art sort of $799 market segment is underserved with (native mount) Sony glass presently

Which do you think drove Samyang to choose Sony first?

- A

It'll be interesting to see whether Sony's decision to license out the AF algorithms hurt them in the long term. Maybe Sony becomes only a camera manufacturer and not a system/lens manufacturer like Canon/Nikon. Canon and Nikon can charge a premium for first party integration. Now Sony has to be price competitive in both bodies and lenses. Might be good for the user in the short term but it may limit their ability to build out their own lens ecosystem.

Unless you are Apple and favor a premium closed ecosystem -- which Sony cannot do as a fledgling imaging platform -- you generally want a bigger ecosystem more than you want an exclusive ecosystem. Those other companies' lenses might hurt Sony's native lens margins, but they are building up the options of the brand faster than Sony can by itself. That is vital in amassing new users and (eventually) converting The CaNikon crowd.

- A

I agree that Sony did it to increase its footprint quickly, but they have also had a lot of good momentum by increasing the feature set of their cameras. High DR -- check. IBIS -- check. Those are things that many people are willing to pay for. But now all the low hanging fruit is gone. What is next -- 1/6 stop at high ISO? At some point, a large percentage of A7 users will think that what they have is good enough, so then what? Canon and Nikon have large margins on their higher end lenses, but they can charge more because their lenses AF better on their bodies. How many people try Sigma lenses and then go back to the first party option because of AF even if it costs more? If Sony licenses the AF algorithms, it won't have that luxury, and its margins on lenses will smaller or they will sell a lot fewer of them than their competitors.

 

[ahsanford]

I agree that Sony did it to increase its footprint quickly, but they have also had a lot of good momentum by increasing the feature set of their cameras. High DR -- check. IBIS -- check. Those are things that many people are willing to pay for. But now all the low hanging fruit is gone. What is next -- 1/6 stop at high ISO? At some point, a large percentage of A7 users will think that what they have is good enough, so then what? Canon and Nikon have large margins on their higher end lenses, but they can charge more because their lenses AF better on their bodies. How many people try Sigma lenses and then go back to the first party option because of AF even if it costs more? If Sony licenses the AF algorithms, it won't have that luxury, and its margins on lenses will smaller or they will sell a lot fewer of them than their competitors.

Agree completely. Sony has crowdsourced it's lens development in a classic tradeoff.

Upside: They get lenses more quickly / less expensively than they could pull off in house --> this could accelerate building their brand overall ('rising tide lifts all boats') and could start to pry professionals from CaNikon over sooner, which is a hugely profitable coup.

Downside: Will be much harder to lock 3rd parties out AF-wise (a la Canon / Nikon) down the road, 3rd parties aren't going to round out a lens portfolio strategically or intelligently -- they will flock to high runners / margin opportunities rather than systematically build up what is missing, there will be a huge challenge to maintain margins on first party products with legitimate AF cheaper options available, etc.

I'd probably do the same if I were Sony. They'll only have a FF mirrorless advantage for so long, best to roll the dice and go big ASAP before Canon and Nikon join the fray.

- A

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I agree that Sony did it to increase its footprint quickly, but they have also had a lot of good momentum by increasing the feature set of their cameras. High DR -- check. IBIS -- check. Those are things that many people are willing to pay for. But now all the low hanging fruit is gone. What is next -- 1/6 stop at high ISO? At some point, a large percentage of A7 users will think that what they have is good enough, so then what? Canon and Nikon have large margins on their higher end lenses, but they can charge more because their lenses AF better on their bodies. How many people try Sigma lenses and then go back to the first party option because of AF even if it costs more? If Sony licenses the AF algorithms, it won't have that luxury, and its margins on lenses will smaller or they will sell a lot fewer of them than their competitors.

Sony gave away the AF information five years ago for E mount lenses. There was discussion on all the camera forums at the time.


Wikipedia:


On 8 February 2011 Sony announced the release of the specifications for the E-mount lens system allowing for third-party lens makers to create lenses for the NEX cameras without having to pay royalties. The mount specifications have been released to registered parties since April 2011.[18] Getting a license for the specifications requires approval by Sony and the signing of a non-disclosure agreement.[19]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_E-mount

 

[ahsanford]

Sony gave away the AF information five years ago for E mount lenses. There was discussion on all the camera forums at the time.


Wikipedia:


On 8 February 2011 Sony announced the release of the specifications for the E-mount lens system allowing for third-party lens makers to create lenses for the NEX cameras without having to pay royalties. The mount specifications have been released to registered parties since April 2011.[18] Getting a license for the specifications requires approval by Sony and the signing of a non-disclosure agreement.[19]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_E-mount

Did not know that. Thank you!

- A

 

[AvTvM]

Unless you are Apple and favor a premium closed ecosystem -- which Sony cannot do as a fledgling imaging platform -- you generally want a bigger ecosystem more than you want an exclusive ecosystem. Those other companies' lenses might hurt Sony's native lens margins, but they are building up the options of the brand faster than Sony can by itself. That is vital in amassing new users and (eventually) converting The CaNikon crowd.

+100 8)
best strategy for Sony. And even better strategy from customer's vantage point. Most people are sick and tired of being locked into proprietary systems. A well-documented open standard really is best of all worlds.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Unless you are Apple and favor a premium closed ecosystem -- which Sony cannot do as a fledgling imaging platform -- you generally want a bigger ecosystem more than you want an exclusive ecosystem. Those other companies' lenses might hurt Sony's native lens margins, but they are building up the options of the brand faster than Sony can by itself. That is vital in amassing new users and (eventually) converting The CaNikon crowd.

+100 8)
best strategy for Sony. And even better strategy from customer's vantage point. Most people are sick and tired of being locked into proprietary systems. A well-documented open standard really is best of all worlds.

It was very much unlike Sony to do this, they were and are always coming up with proprietary standards that no one else makes.

 

[ahsanford]

Update:
http://petapixel.com/2016/05/04/real-life-photos-af-test-pricing-info-new-samyang-50mm-lens/

Wow. Between $400-600. That'll even undercut Sigma.

- A

 

[bsbeamer]

Unfortunately, there still are not a great selection of fixed aperture zoom lenses available for the Sony cameras... it's gotten better, but that's really what is needed if they are going to get Canon/Nikon converts who have a large selection of lenses already.

 

[AvTvM]

Update:
http://petapixel.com/2016/05/04/real-life-photos-af-test-pricing-info-new-samyang-50mm-lens/
Wow. Between $400-600. That'll even undercut Sigma.

excellent! seems like *pigs can fly* ... sometimes!
the closer price is to $ 400, the better!

what type is the AF-system? ring-USM ? or stepper motor ? or linear drive (like most sony FE lenses)? if the latter than 1,2 or 4 "motors"? performance is described as slower than FE 55/1.8 ...

could this be the pink unicorn ahsanford 50/1.4-whatever? ... but unfortunately not for Canon EF-mount .. oh boy!

 

[ejenner]

Maybe showing my age, but perhaps they learned from the Betamax experience.