Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF

[shizam1]

My wife and I shot a wedding yesterday, we brought two 5DII bodies, and one 5DIII body. I didn't bring out the 5DIII until the reception because I didn't want to use it for the critical stuff until I've spent more time with it. For the reception ( private room inside restaurant ) we were using the 85 f/1.2L II, 35 f/1.5L and 50 f/1.4. I lost many good shots because the 5DIII took 2-3 seconds to focus. I tested focusing in the low light with all the lenses, and the results were similar ( well, the 85 was even slower, because that lens is just slow focusing ). For AF, I had "one shot" selected, and the center point with the 4 surrounding points. I couldn't easily do a side by side because I didn't have two of any one lens, but I did switch lenses between the bodies and played around some. The 5DIII was as slow, or possibly even slower than the 5DII to achieve focus. The amout of natural light in the reception was around ISO1600, f/1.4 and 1/60. Oh, and I had a flash on, putting out that red focus assist as well during all this testing! Anyway, just giving people a heads up on what I experienced, and I've seen some others post the same. I've also seen people post results of miraculous AF improvement with the 5DIII...

 

[Bart van Dieken]

One thing that might be the problem is that the focus assist beam is pointed at the center of the image and therefore only helps the center AF points...not the outer AF points.

 

[BillyBean]

Well, my paranoia is starting to kick in now. I can get a 5D2 for £1500, get decent IQ and put up with rubbish AF, or I can get a 5D3 for £3000, get decent IQ and put up with rubbish AF.

Hmmm... tricky choice.

I wonder if improved firmware will make this easier?

 

[shizam1]

One thing that might be the problem is that the focus assist beam is pointed at the center of the image and therefore only helps the center AF points...not the outer AF points.

Yeah, and if you re-read my post, I had center point selected, with the four surrounding points as well

 

[Bart van Dieken]

Billybean i can relate to your difficult choice...

I'm going to buy a 5d MK2 second hand from someone for 1250 euros (with 1 year warranty left) + 16GB 400x CF and an extra battery...and a sunsniper strap.

To me it sounds like a pretty good deal to me plus I got 2250 euros to spare to buy 1 or 2 great lenses!!
I'm so glad that it's finally over for me...5d MK3 is a great cam for someone else who has got loads of money to spare. I actually want more money coming into, then going out of my bank account ;-) A 5D MK1 or MK2 wont be the difference between a normal income from photography or a big income.

 

[shizam1]

Yeah, maybe the AF is much better for tracking moving objects, but it didn't seem to help me much in a normal dark wedding reception. Now I probably won't upgrade my other body, and will get a new lens instead. I wonder if the new 24-70 will focus faster than those primes in a dark situation?

 

[ippikiokami]

Strange... I was shooting a concert where I had to use around 12800 - 25600 iso and had it straight on center point AF and it was focusing amazingly (in that kind of situation my 5d2 wouldn't even try). In what situations did you try the expanded? Not trying to doubt you but it does focus much differently than the 5d2 when you put it on the expanded mode and if you're not used to it then it might have caused you problems.

 

[tt]

Does the focus assist work from the ex II 580 with the mark III?


Did you try central point only?

 

[shizam1]

Strange... I was shooting a concert where I had to use around 12800 - 25600 iso and had it straight on center point AF and it was focusing amazingly (in that kind of situation my 5d2 wouldn't even try). In what situations did you try the expanded? Not trying to doubt you but it does focus much differently than the 5d2 when you put it on the expanded mode and if you're not used to it then it might have caused you problems.

Well, like I said, I had it set to center point, with the af point expansion on. My understanding is it would try to use the center point, but would also use the 4 surrounding points as well if it was having problem with the center point.

But like I said, I also was comparing with the 5DII on center point only, and both were acting pretty similarly.

 

[Alker]

Every new camera seems to have AF problems.
Mine 5D mark iii is superb with his AF

 

[logaandm]

I also find it pretty strange. I just tried my Mark III and it focuses really well in low light unless I am trying to focus on something with low contrast, like black on black. Mind you, I am not using any focus assit beam or a flash. Maybe a flash alters the focus logic.

 

[shizam1]

I also find it pretty strange. I just tried my Mark III and it focuses really well in low light unless I am trying to focus on something with low contrast, like black on black. Mind you, I am not using any focus assit beam or a flash. Maybe a flash alters the focus logic.

Well, I was surprised as well. I was expecting better AF performance in low light than my 5DII, but was getting the same result. It was pretty dark though, I was just expecting better. Even focusing on a red fire alarm panel on a white wall in the venue was taking 1-2 seconds. I'll play around some tonight and see if I get anything different.

 

[agierke]

i have been under the impression that the primes are not fast auto focusing lenses. i dont have any yet but i have worked with plenty of people who have. i have especially heard the 85mm L is a bit of a dog with AF. i'm on the fence right now about incorporating them into my work but even if i do i cant see myself not continuing to rely on the 24-70 and the 70-200.

i wonder if a more accurate test of the new AF system might be performed using the 70-200mm F2.8L? anyone have more experience that could enlighten us on this matter?

 

[shizam1]

i have been under the impression that the primes are not fast auto focusing lenses. i dont have any yet but i have worked with plenty of people who have. i have especially heard the 85mm L is a bit of a dog with AF. i'm on the fence right now about incorporating them into my work but even if i do i cant see myself not continuing to rely on the 24-70 and the 70-200.

i wonder if a more accurate test of the new AF system might be performed using the 70-200mm F2.8L? anyone have more experience that could enlighten us on this matter?

Yeah, I have the 70-200 f/2.8L II, but no way I'm using that in a small,crowded reception area!

Wedding photographers like to use fast primes in dark areas, for more natural looking photos with minimal flash. I will usually shoot those primes anywhere from f/1.2 to f/2.0 so that's a 1-2 stop improvement ( 2 to 4 times as much light ).

 

[JR]

Strange... I was shooting a concert where I had to use around 12800 - 25600 iso and had it straight on center point AF and it was focusing amazingly (in that kind of situation my 5d2 wouldn't even try). In what situations did you try the expanded? Not trying to doubt you but it does focus much differently than the 5d2 when you put it on the expanded mode and if you're not used to it then it might have caused you problems.

Well, like I said, I had it set to center point, with the af point expansion on. My understanding is it would try to use the center point, but would also use the 4 surrounding points as well if it was having problem with the center point.

But like I said, I also was comparing with the 5DII on center point only, and both were acting pretty similarly.

Was your 5d mkii also using point expansion? I know when i tried the mkiii i did not get good result with point expansion. I preferred using single center point with no expansion. Did you tried that?

For the shots you did have good focus, were you happy with image quality?

Jacques

 

[shizam1]

You have some very fast lenses, I have the 85L1.2ii as well, I'm surprised you didn't opt to use single spot/point AF ??? Were you using the widest aperture?

I was normally shooting between wide open and f/2.

Well, I was using the center AF point, but with expansion, so that is supposed to mean it will use the 4 surrounding points if it can't lock AF with the center. So that SHOULD be similar performance to using just the center point, but with the added benefit of if it can't lock on, it will try with the other points.

 

[shizam1]

Was your 5d mkii also using point expansion? I know when i tried the mkiii i did not get good result with point expansion. I preferred using single center point with no expansion. Did you tried that?

For the shots you did have good focus, were you happy with image quality?

Jacques

I use center point for 5DII, I don't think there's any sort of expanion with that camera. It's either pick a point, or pick all. I didn't try just center... if that does better I will be surprised and dissapointed, because it goes against what the literature says.

The AF seems to be very accurate once it does lock on.

 

[Sallivres]

Oh, and I had a flash on, putting out that red focus assist as well during all this testing!

According to the manual page 77:

"With single-point Spot AF, focusing with the Speedlight's AF assist beam may be difficult."

 

[msdarkroom]

Oh, and I had a flash on, putting out that red focus assist as well during all this testing!

According to the manual page 77:

"With single-point Spot AF, focusing with the Speedlight's AF assist beam may be difficult."

He wasn't using single point spot AF.

 

[shizam1]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't have my 5Diii yet) you can select a single focus point (non-central) as well? Bacause I know from experience that centre-spot focus-recompose can be pretty dodgy with the 85L 1.2ii.
at least, definitely at f1.2, f1.4.

Yep, you can select any point. And then, you can select a "mode" to go along with it. By mode, I mean you can tell the camera to take that point you selected, and use JUST THAT POINT, or use 4 points around it ( making a + ), or 8 points around it ( making a square ), or use a zone and not a point at all, or use ALL points.

Focus and recompose can cause difficulty with really shallow DOF, you are correct. But I'm talking about the time to achieve AF, not whether by using focus and recompose you get a bad part of the photo in focus.