Sigma 50mm Art 1.4 Focusing problems

cid said:
And I thought it will be my fast prime in my set :o >:(

sadly there is no way I'm buying lens which has AF focus inconsistency, i they don't solve it, I'll rather give 35A a shot, or wait for 50L II

I had the same issue with the 35A, and I'm not alone in that.

If my new 50A doesn't work, I'll get my money back, and start saving for the lens I really had been waiting for, the 35 L II.
 
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Viggo said:
cid said:
And I thought it will be my fast prime in my set :o >:(

sadly there is no way I'm buying lens which has AF focus inconsistency, i they don't solve it, I'll rather give 35A a shot, or wait for 50L II

I had the same issue with the 35A, and I'm not alone in that.

If my new 50A doesn't work, I'll get my money back, and start saving for the lens I really had been waiting for, the 35 L II.

sad to hear that, except for these AF issue both these lenses look awesome ... well probably got to save for some canon (or maybe zeiss) glass
 
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cid said:
Viggo said:
cid said:
And I thought it will be my fast prime in my set :o >:(

sadly there is no way I'm buying lens which has AF focus inconsistency, i they don't solve it, I'll rather give 35A a shot, or wait for 50L II

I had the same issue with the 35A, and I'm not alone in that.

If my new 50A doesn't work, I'll get my money back, and start saving for the lens I really had been waiting for, the 35 L II.

sad to hear that, except for these AF issue both these lenses look awesome ... well probably got to save for some canon (or maybe zeiss) glass

If you want some Zeiss, look into the 50mm f2 mp, it's fantastic and doubles as a macro. Only reason I sold it is because I simply can't get enough sharp shots with MF ..
 
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Viggo said:
cid said:
Viggo said:
cid said:
And I thought it will be my fast prime in my set :o >:(

sadly there is no way I'm buying lens which has AF focus inconsistency, i they don't solve it, I'll rather give 35A a shot, or wait for 50L II

I had the same issue with the 35A, and I'm not alone in that.

If my new 50A doesn't work, I'll get my money back, and start saving for the lens I really had been waiting for, the 35 L II.

sad to hear that, except for these AF issue both these lenses look awesome ... well probably got to save for some canon (or maybe zeiss) glass

If you want some Zeiss, look into the 50mm f2 mp, it's fantastic and doubles as a macro. Only reason I sold it is because I simply can't get enough sharp shots with MF ..

I know, I already had the opportunity to try it ;)
 
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cid said:
Viggo said:
cid said:
Viggo said:
cid said:
And I thought it will be my fast prime in my set :o >:(

sadly there is no way I'm buying lens which has AF focus inconsistency, i they don't solve it, I'll rather give 35A a shot, or wait for 50L II

I had the same issue with the 35A, and I'm not alone in that.

If my new 50A doesn't work, I'll get my money back, and start saving for the lens I really had been waiting for, the 35 L II.

sad to hear that, except for these AF issue both these lenses look awesome ... well probably got to save for some canon (or maybe zeiss) glass

If you want some Zeiss, look into the 50mm f2 mp, it's fantastic and doubles as a macro. Only reason I sold it is because I simply can't get enough sharp shots with MF ..

I know, I already had the opportunity to try it ;)

That is what I really liked about the 50A, it could to very close shots with the same IQ as further away, something I hated that the 50 L couldn't do. And the 50A is completely distortion free and it did 1.4, something I disliked about the Zeiss. So of aaaall the 50's I have tried and owned, the 50A is seriously that optimal 50, in every way epic, IF the AF will work...
 
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Viggo said:
That is what I really liked about the 50A, it could to very close shots with the same IQ as further away, something I hated that the 50 L couldn't do. And the 50A is completely distortion free and it did 1.4, something I disliked about the Zeiss. So of aaaall the 50's I have tried and owned, the 50A is seriously that optimal 50, in every way epic, IF the AF will work...

It's simply sad, it's like owning brand new bugatti veyron, but only with two wheels, so if you want to move it, you simply have to tow it ...
 
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IsaacImage said:
Here is some update for the problem of this gorgeous lens.

After 5 days in service Sigma rep said "there is nothing to do with this right now and they waiting for firmware update for this lens."

Whole story on my blog with bunch of samples.

http://www.isaacimage.com/sigma-50mm-f1-4-dg-hsm-art/

Thanks for sharing. Interesting that they are working on a firmware update. And it's further supporting my thoughts about their utilizing, or rather not, of the cross type and double cross type AF points.

Interesting they say, "nothing to do right now" my new copy is 1800 pictures old and it's not hit and miss at. all.
 
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IsaacImage said:
Here is some update for the problem of this gorgeous lens.

After 5 days in service Sigma rep said "there is nothing to do with this right now and they waiting for firmware update for this lens."

Whole story on my blog with bunch of samples.

http://www.isaacimage.com/sigma-50mm-f1-4-dg-hsm-art/

In this thread, Viggo posted a hypothesis that, at least in some copies, the lens is not using the left and right AF points properly. He asked it very informally, sort of thinking out loud.

Yet you, Issac, state it almost factually in your blog: "And it looks like Sigma can’t utilize the cross type of far right and far left and simply uses cross type in the center instead of double cross type sensors of 1dx and 5d mark 3 auto focus system."

C'mon. This was one experienced photographer throwing out an idea.

And you seem to suggest that there is some kind of limitation to the lens when Sigma told you to use AFMA for the center point only. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we always use the center point for AFMA on all lenses?

Furthermore, you go on to use at least one more quote from this thread, attributing it to "Somebody said," rather than properly citing your sources. It's one thing to throw around rumors on a forum dedicated to RUMORS, but when you blog, you risk losing lots of credibility by not writing more...well, credibly. Or professionally.

I can't help worrying about what my experience will be when I finally get mine, but I also can't help feeling that, with talk of going through five copies, "somebody" might just be a little over zealous in trying to find something wrong with the lens. Something this new, makes sense to try one, try another, but I think you've lost some of the strength of whatever you were trying to accomplish in the first place.

Issac, I'm not trying to attack you or your integrity. I'm merely pointing out, that in online battles for perception, companies often employ tactics of fear, uncertainty, and doubt--and quite effectively. Corporations have been using "actors" for years to praise and criticize products. And some brand loyalists are nutty enough to take it upon themselves. It is only fair that claims good and bad be questioned, even met with skepticism.

Think about it. This lens cannot be attacked because of image quality, an attribute way too easy to display by simply posting. So the way to create doubt is to go after something less concrete, an ephemeral but potentially fatal AF problem.

What's my stake in this? I want a freakin' 50mm that works with great wide open performance. I have several great L lenses, including the 85 and 135--and if a colleague and a legion of reviews hadn't put me off it, I'd have gone with the Canon 50mm 1.2 L. I just know I wouldn't like the problems with close distance focusing, with CA, and with distortion, so I passed on it, using the 50mm 1.4 and other lenses instead. That's it. I want a lens that works, and I'm very happy Tamron and Sigma compete with Canon to put some price and quality pressure on.

You might very well feel the same way I do, yet on this site and others, I see crazy rants about how independent lens makers can never make decent lenses. So I take EVERY post with a grain of salt until a critical mass of truthfulness and credibility is reached.
 
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Having had three sigma Art lenses and two of them useless with the same problem, I don't really doubt buying 5 from the first batch and they all show the same issue. Mine was also +17 and Eldar and others have had the same issue.

It's not a small single issue. It's a bunch of copies from the 35 and 50 Art. I didn't want them to be bad and all of us bought them to use them because the IQ is great.

It's almost offending to not believe our findings. And the thing about AF points is not a random statement, it's almost has to be that way when comparing to Canon lenses like the 85 L. Go from center towards the edges and it's clearly worse than the canon towards the edges. I know the 1dx AF system, and it's not fully functional with the 50 Art.
 
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Viggo, please don't take offense. But please do understand how we all have to sort through a lot of misinformation on the web. You've made quite clear with your long history of posts that you are sincere and knowledgeable.

Challenging findings and claims is the ONLY way to sort things out.
 
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I have read lots and lots of threads here with people having AF problems with the 50A, but so far all of them had these issues with their 1D series camera, most notably the 1Dx.

Can someone confirm that these issues also affect other cameras as well?
 
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IsaacImage said:
Here is some update for the problem of this gorgeous lens.

After 5 days in service Sigma rep said "there is nothing to do with this right now and they waiting for firmware update for this lens."

Whole story on my blog with bunch of samples.

http://www.isaacimage.com/sigma-50mm-f1-4-dg-hsm-art/

Sorry to hear such reports. I'm going to stick with my now old 50/1.2L. It's not a perfect 50, but it does its job and often makes a good photo. It's actually one of my favorite lenses.
 
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Rudeofus said:
I have read lots and lots of threads here with people having AF problems with the 50A, but so far all of them had these issues with their 1D series camera, most notably the 1Dx.

Can someone confirm that these issues also affect other cameras as well?

IsaacImage also mentioned having difficulties on the 5DIII, which has a similar AF system. Being able to nail thin DOF shots with outer focus points is such a advantage that I don't think I'm willing to go back to using centerpoint only (i.e. 5DII) even if the lens is superior.
 
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Random Orbits said:
Rudeofus said:
I have read lots and lots of threads here with people having AF problems with the 50A, but so far all of them had these issues with their 1D series camera, most notably the 1Dx.

Can someone confirm that these issues also affect other cameras as well?

IsaacImage also mentioned having difficulties on the 5DIII, which has a similar AF system. Being able to nail thin DOF shots with outer focus points is such a advantage that I don't think I'm willing to go back to using centerpoint only (i.e. 5DII) even if the lens is superior.

Yes it's exactly the same issues with 5d mk III
 
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YuengLinger said:
IsaacImage said:
Here is some update for the problem of this gorgeous lens.

After 5 days in service Sigma rep said "there is nothing to do with this right now and they waiting for firmware update for this lens."

Whole story on my blog with bunch of samples.

http://www.isaacimage.com/sigma-50mm-f1-4-dg-hsm-art/

In this thread, Viggo posted a hypothesis that, at least in some copies, the lens is not using the left and right AF points properly. He asked it very informally, sort of thinking out loud.

Yet you, Issac, state it almost factually in your blog: "And it looks like Sigma can’t utilize the cross type of far right and far left and simply uses cross type in the center instead of double cross type sensors of 1dx and 5d mark 3 auto focus system."

C'mon. This was one experienced photographer throwing out an idea.

And you seem to suggest that there is some kind of limitation to the lens when Sigma told you to use AFMA for the center point only. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we always use the center point for AFMA on all lenses?

Furthermore, you go on to use at least one more quote from this thread, attributing it to "Somebody said," rather than properly citing your sources. It's one thing to throw around rumors on a forum dedicated to RUMORS, but when you blog, you risk losing lots of credibility by not writing more...well, credibly. Or professionally.

I can't help worrying about what my experience will be when I finally get mine, but I also can't help feeling that, with talk of going through five copies, "somebody" might just be a little over zealous in trying to find something wrong with the lens. Something this new, makes sense to try one, try another, but I think you've lost some of the strength of whatever you were trying to accomplish in the first place.

Issac, I'm not trying to attack you or your integrity. I'm merely pointing out, that in online battles for perception, companies often employ tactics of fear, uncertainty, and doubt--and quite effectively. Corporations have been using "actors" for years to praise and criticize products. And some brand loyalists are nutty enough to take it upon themselves. It is only fair that claims good and bad be questioned, even met with skepticism.

Think about it. This lens cannot be attacked because of image quality, an attribute way too easy to display by simply posting. So the way to create doubt is to go after something less concrete, an ephemeral but potentially fatal AF problem.

What's my stake in this? I want a freakin' 50mm that works with great wide open performance. I have several great L lenses, including the 85 and 135--and if a colleague and a legion of reviews hadn't put me off it, I'd have gone with the Canon 50mm 1.2 L. I just know I wouldn't like the problems with close distance focusing, with CA, and with distortion, so I passed on it, using the 50mm 1.4 and other lenses instead. That's it. I want a lens that works, and I'm very happy Tamron and Sigma compete with Canon to put some price and quality pressure on.

You might very well feel the same way I do, yet on this site and others, I see crazy rants about how independent lens makers can never make decent lenses. So I take EVERY post with a grain of salt until a critical mass of truthfulness and credibility is reached.

Wow this post bigger than my blog post, are you boring or something ?
All written it's my personal thoughts and my personal experience and not scientific statement of official Canon rep.

I'm not telling you that I have enough experience even if I do have some ;), it's just make sense if you know when the cross type AF points and where double once and where Siggy is missing the target on 1dx body.

aLso had a bunch of troubles with 50L that's why I don't own one.
Cheers

George
 
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I long ago was bit by Sigma. I had several EOS compatible lenses that would not work on DSLR's. Sigma charged me $100 to fix one of them, the others were out of production, and paperweights.

Reverse engineering a lens Autofocus is extremely difficult. The lens must give a camera a Canon lens code, and then the camera applies corrections and limitations based on a data table in the camera, so different camera generations might have some issues. If the code given is for a lens that supports limited focus points, then you will only be able to use those points.

Assuming that you can use the Sigma Dock to get the lens perfect on a 5D MK III, it may still be horrible on a 7D or 1D MK IV. That's the limitation of the dock, it adjusts for one camera only.
 
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
Assuming that you can use the Sigma Dock to get the lens perfect on a 5D MK III, it may still be horrible on a 7D or 1D MK IV. That's the limitation of the dock, it adjusts for one camera only.

Actually no, it adjusts the lens not the lens to a body. So the only thing you adjust is the normal afma. If my 1dx is at 0 and the lens adjusted at each distance to match that in camera adjustment, only thing I adjust on the 5d2 is the difference between those two bodies like I would any other lens. My gf's 5d2 is around -5 off the 1dx values. Dock adjusted lens and -5 in camera and it works.
 
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Viggo said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
Assuming that you can use the Sigma Dock to get the lens perfect on a 5D MK III, it may still be horrible on a 7D or 1D MK IV. That's the limitation of the dock, it adjusts for one camera only.

Actually no, it adjusts the lens not the lens to a body. So the only thing you adjust is the normal afma. If my 1dx is at 0 and the lens adjusted at each distance to match that in camera adjustment, only thing I adjust on the 5d2 is the difference between those two bodies like I would any other lens. My gf's 5d2 is around -5 off the 1dx values. Dock adjusted lens and -5 in camera and it works.

It adjusts the lens to match the camera its on. That's what I was saying. It then can be close, or way off on a different camera. It depends on the actual adjustment accuracy of the camera you adjust it to.

I had a new 35mmL that was -2 on my 5D MK II but +17 on my 1D MK III. Canon adjusted it for me, and it was right-on for both, and also at 0 AFMA when I upgraded to a 5D MK III. I never could understand that.

At plus five for the 5D MK III, that's fine. But, if the lens changes over time, as some suggest, you have to recalibrate everything.
 
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Cameras are awesome devices, but they don't work by magic. Knowing a little bit about how the body and lens interact can be helpful in understanding and evaluating potential problems. The body detects how much out-of-focus an image is and sends a signal to the lens to adjust it, in one go in case of phase AF. The lens has to interpret this signal correctly and adjust properly; therein lies the software challenge for Sigma. The lens does not care how the body came to the conclusion that the particular adjustment was needed; ergo choosing focus point etc is entirely a body issue and has nothing to do with the lens (except in fringe cases such as the lens not illuminating the whole image plane - i.e. clearly a broken lens). As a corollary, the lenses' role for AF in low-light conditions is also questionable. Sure, faster lenses should give the body an easier time with more photons, but that's about it.

About AFMA, I would have expected the USB dock with AFMA to fix the relative AFMA of a lens, and the body to fix the absolute AFMA with respect to that particular body. You seem to say differently,Mt Spokane Photography. Why? Is this your expectation or actual experience? Once I get the dock and some time I could test multiple bodies with a single lens and FoCal to see how they correlate. Perhaps someone else has already tried that.
 
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