Some Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR2]

[slclick]

If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish.

then go get a GH5..
: : :

Seriously. If you...

• Don't need to shoot north of ISO 800
• Don't need a depth of field smaller than 1 ft / 30 cm for portraiture
• Don't need more than 20 MP
• Don't need to nail moving targets
• Don't need access to the world's largest portfolio of lenses, flashes and third party accessories

...then knock yourself out and get a GH5.

The rest of us kind of do need some of things above and aren't so petty or binary as to declare a product DOA unless it is perfectly tailored to our sensibilities and priorities.

- A

DOA rumor specs posts always get me popping popcorn. Keep 'em coming!



edit: Any minute now someone will say it's DOA for not having AFMA customizable for different C1-3 settings.

 

[Aussie shooter]

If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish. I'm not loyal to any camera company and I don't mind dumping glass if need be. As a wedding photographer and videographer I need convenience quality. I use two cameras for still and 3 for video. 4k allows my wide camera to act like two cameras (2x crops) during the ceremony, intros, and toasts. I was a photojournalist for 10 years for The New York Times, Associated Press etc and today this camera with 4k video, frame grabs would be a must for in photojournalist (many PJ's shoot photo and video now). There is NO need for in increase in MP! Wedding photographers and photojournalists do NOT need more MP...a wedding photographer shoots 2500-5000 raw images at a wedding and we don't need to process more MP....20MP is plenty (and is even enough for 8K video!). We also love to shoot images at the lowest available lighting situations handheld and more MP equals more noise...save the giant MP cameras for another specialty line of cameras. I'm buying a panasonic GH5 and wish the 6D or 5D4 had similar specs (I own a 5D3 and prefer the video straight out of my 70D)....5D4 is a lemon. yes...the gh5 is a small sensor but so is my 70D and it shoots clean video and I use faster glass. I son't get Canon? revoultionize the market and then start a new Cine line and make a ton of $...then stick a slow SD card slot in the 5D3, be forced by magic lantern to change 5d3 firmware, 5D4 gets a crappy 4k codec and 1.7 crop, (make a 70D with sharper cleaner video, swivel screen, touch screen AF) then a camera that costs more (5d3)? ...shadow highlight depth of Nikon...nope. I'm looking at you Panasonic and Sony and thankful that you have stepped up to the batters box and are home run hitters with a high batting average...may be time to bench Canon.

No offense but if you are a pro then fork out and buy a pro camera. Stop asking for all the bells and whistles which end up making an entry level camera into an unafordable pro camera.

 

[privatebydesign]

If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish. I'm not loyal to any camera company and I don't mind dumping glass if need be. As a wedding photographer and videographer I need convenience quality. I use two cameras for still and 3 for video. 4k allows my wide camera to act like two cameras (2x crops) during the ceremony, intros, and toasts. I was a photojournalist for 10 years for The New York Times, Associated Press etc and today this camera with 4k video, frame grabs would be a must for in photojournalist (many PJ's shoot photo and video now). There is NO need for in increase in MP! Wedding photographers and photojournalists do NOT need more MP...a wedding photographer shoots 2500-5000 raw images at a wedding and we don't need to process more MP....20MP is plenty (and is even enough for 8K video!). We also love to shoot images at the lowest available lighting situations handheld and more MP equals more noise...save the giant MP cameras for another specialty line of cameras. I'm buying a panasonic GH5 and wish the 6D or 5D4 had similar specs (I own a 5D3 and prefer the video straight out of my 70D)....5D4 is a lemon. yes...the gh5 is a small sensor but so is my 70D and it shoots clean video and I use faster glass. I son't get Canon? revoultionize the market and then start a new Cine line and make a ton of $...then stick a slow SD card slot in the 5D3, be forced by magic lantern to change 5d3 firmware, 5D4 gets a crappy 4k codec and 1.7 crop, (make a 70D with sharper cleaner video, swivel screen, touch screen AF) then a camera that costs more (5d3)? ...shadow highlight depth of Nikon...nope. I'm looking at you Panasonic and Sony and thankful that you have stepped up to the batters box and are home run hitters with a high batting average...may be time to bench Canon.

No it isn't! 8K is 33MP or 7680 x 4320 pixels.

 

[ahsanford]

No offense but if you are a pro then fork out and buy a pro camera. Stop asking for all the bells and whistles which end up making an entry level camera into an unafordable pro camera.

That's not quite what he's asking for.

He's asking Canon to stop adding pixels to SLRs and prioritize video as the end-all be-all -- a Nikon D700 level of detail with a Sony A7S II level of video capability, if you will. You actually can make something like that camera for $2k. (It's called the GH5.)

His request is not out of place. It's just out of place for a FF SLR, a segment which has yet to demonstrate that business is won or lost without 4K despite what many people choose to rant about on online forums. This segment still cares much much more about stills quality than it does about video.

Mind you -- I'm not belittling the legitimacy of his personal need or his worldview. I'm simply saying he's in a decided minority for this (6D2) class of camera.

- A

 

[unfocused]

...With the release cycle of the xD cameras, not only does this new 6D2 need to look good today, it needs to hold up and look good 3 years from now. The current 6D when it debuted came with a weak AF system. Today it looks quite dated. I suspect Canon won't make that mistake this time.

Hmmm. Currently Number 11 on Amazon's best selling DSLR list. 5DIV is #5 and 5DIII is #6. The next closest full frame competitor (other than Canon) is the Nikon D750 at #16. So, as "quite dated" as it is, it is still outselling any other brand's full frame body and holding it's own against the 5DIV. I'm sure Canon would be quite happy to repeat that "mistake."

 

[ahsanford]

Hmmm. Currently Number 11 on Amazon's best selling DSLR list. 5DIV is #5 and 5DIII is #6. The next closest full frame competitor (other than Canon) is the Nikon D750 at #16. So, as "quite dated" as it is, it is still outselling any other brand's full frame body and holding it's own against the 5DIV. I'm sure Canon would be quite happy to repeat that "mistake."

Sure, the 6D sold well, but consider the 6D did not retain it's initial asking price nearly as well as other cameras it sells. That's not 'proof' the 6D AF is a problem, so much as a testament that the camera is on aggregate less sexy than it could be, that other products offer more value in comparison, etc.

And the last time Canon underpegged an AF system on a FF rig -- the 5D2 -- they listened to their customers and improved it considerably. Though they are different class-level products, there are parallels between the 5D2, 7D1 and 6D1 AF situation -- people want more and Canon gave it to them with the next model. So I expect Canon to make a nontrivial AF upgrade with the 6D2.

- A

 

[Loswr]

If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone).

Egad, man...you have critical information like this and you're not going to act on it? Call Canon. Go to Tokyo and shout it from the rooftops. You have a social and ethical responsibility to all those Canon workers whose families will starve unless you get this critical knowledge to Canon before it's too late and they're doomed!!!!!

:

 

[FramerMCB]

Any word on upgrades to the focus system? That's my biggest complaint about the current 6D and what (in my opinion) really needs an upgrade.

If the 6D Mk II is getting a touchscreen LCD along with DPAF, the autofocus has to be upgraded to utilize this technology. Especially if it will have (assumed to be so) the ability to autofocus where you touch the screen... It remains to be seen however, if it will have both DPAF as well as PDAF like the 5D Mk IV.

 

[rrcphoto]

If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish. I'm not loyal to any camera company and I don't mind dumping glass if need be. As a wedding photographer and videographer I need convenience quality. I use two cameras for still and 3 for video. 4k allows my wide camera to act like two cameras (2x crops) during the ceremony, intros, and toasts. I was a photojournalist for 10 years for The New York Times, Associated Press etc and today this camera with 4k video, frame grabs would be a must for in photojournalist (many PJ's shoot photo and video now). There is NO need for in increase in MP! Wedding photographers and photojournalists do NOT need more MP...a wedding photographer shoots 2500-5000 raw images at a wedding and we don't need to process more MP....20MP is plenty (and is even enough for 8K video!). We also love to shoot images at the lowest available lighting situations handheld and more MP equals more noise...save the giant MP cameras for another specialty line of cameras. I'm buying a panasonic GH5 and wish the 6D or 5D4 had similar specs (I own a 5D3 and prefer the video straight out of my 70D)....5D4 is a lemon. yes...the gh5 is a small sensor but so is my 70D and it shoots clean video and I use faster glass. I son't get Canon? revoultionize the market and then start a new Cine line and make a ton of $...then stick a slow SD card slot in the 5D3, be forced by magic lantern to change 5d3 firmware, 5D4 gets a crappy 4k codec and 1.7 crop, (make a 70D with sharper cleaner video, swivel screen, touch screen AF) then a camera that costs more (5d3)? ...shadow highlight depth of Nikon...nope. I'm looking at you Panasonic and Sony and thankful that you have stepped up to the batters box and are home run hitters with a high batting average...may be time to bench Canon.

No offense but if you are a pro then fork out and buy a pro camera. Stop asking for all the bells and whistles which end up making an entry level camera into an unafordable pro camera.

this.

I'd be surprised if it has 4K at all.

Until Canon managed to merge DIGIC DV and DIGIC 7-8-9-10 whathaveyou together into one package, and get the firmware working for that, we're probably S.O.L. or have backed 4K options such as with the 1DXII and 5DIV.

continually begging and acting as if a stills camera is DOA because it doesn't act like a camcorder seems.. stupid.

not to mention, if you want a hybrid, get a mirrorless - a optical viewfinder camera simply isn't as good. period.

which is another reason I wonder why people whine about video on the canon / nikon DSLR's.

 

[rrcphoto]

...With the release cycle of the xD cameras, not only does this new 6D2 need to look good today, it needs to hold up and look good 3 years from now. The current 6D when it debuted came with a weak AF system. Today it looks quite dated. I suspect Canon won't make that mistake this time.

Hmmm. Currently Number 11 on Amazon's best selling DSLR list. 5DIV is #5 and 5DIII is #6. The next closest full frame competitor (other than Canon) is the Nikon D750 at #16. So, as "quite dated" as it is, it is still outselling any other brand's full frame body and holding it's own against the 5DIV. I'm sure Canon would be quite happy to repeat that "mistake."

This.

the 6D sold well, because it simply worked and was a charm to use according to it's fans. I doubt that canon will change that strategy much. it will work, people will say it's a flop, DOA, dumb Canon, stupid Canon, I'm giving up and moving to Sony/Nikon/Panasonic/Fuji/Kodak/Tonka/Lego/Ikea .. and a few months will pass, and people that actually bought it will discover it's a great camera to use.

Rinse and repeat for every canon camera release.

 

[Woody]

If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish.

Panasonic market shares for MILCs in Japan:
2010 - 38.7%
2011 - 29.3%
2012 - 23.3%
2013 - 14.2%
2014 - 11.9%
2015 - negligible, below top 3
2016 - negligible, below top 3

Canon market shares for MILCs in Japan:
2010-2014 - negligible, below top 3
2015 - 13.6%
2016 - 18.5%

Hmmm... Looks like 4k video in GH4, GH5 ain't helping Panasonic. So, tell me again, who is perishing?

 

[Luds34]

...With the release cycle of the xD cameras, not only does this new 6D2 need to look good today, it needs to hold up and look good 3 years from now. The current 6D when it debuted came with a weak AF system. Today it looks quite dated. I suspect Canon won't make that mistake this time.

Hmmm. Currently Number 11 on Amazon's best selling DSLR list. 5DIV is #5 and 5DIII is #6. The next closest full frame competitor (other than Canon) is the Nikon D750 at #16. So, as "quite dated" as it is, it is still outselling any other brand's full frame body and holding it's own against the 5DIV. I'm sure Canon would be quite happy to repeat that "mistake."

My apologies. I got confused and thought this was photography gear enthusiast site. I didn't realize this was a Canon shareholder meeting. Toyota sells a ton of Camry's, doesn't mean it's a vehicle any car enthusiast would want to own.

But I'll bite for a moment. Let's play corporate America. Let's throw out that you are using completely flawed ranks from Amazon with no real numbers behind it (#1 camera at one point in a category was unreleased). The Canon 6D was a success. However, how much more of a success would it have been, how much more money would they have made if they hadn't intentionally crippled the AF system so much? From a pure bill of materials perspective I can't imagine the actual unit cost being much greater with 19 or 40 something AF system. But the value it adds in the consumer's eyes? Geez, 6D's might still be retailing for close to $2k instead of going for $1200.

So, just because a product is selling and making a company money, a success if you will, doesn't mean they played it optimally, that they didn't leave money on the table. Canon probably knows as well as anyone and I'm sure they hit pretty close to target... but I'm guessing they know they went too conservative on the AF system and it cost them in the margins they made on each unit and the number of units sold.

$2k is a good chunk of money for a camera, especially body only. Competition has some strong offerings out there. And Canon invests some pretty good coin into market research, voice of the customer, market segmentation. I think we'll all be pretty happy with what actually gets delivered with the 6D2. I suspect it will be a very solid camera and it will come with a pretty good AF system. You know, because as I said earlier, Canon won't want to repeat the mistake of misjudging and overly crippling the AF as they did in the mark 1.

 

[Luds34]

...With the release cycle of the xD cameras, not only does this new 6D2 need to look good today, it needs to hold up and look good 3 years from now. The current 6D when it debuted came with a weak AF system. Today it looks quite dated. I suspect Canon won't make that mistake this time.

Hmmm. Currently Number 11 on Amazon's best selling DSLR list. 5DIV is #5 and 5DIII is #6. The next closest full frame competitor (other than Canon) is the Nikon D750 at #16. So, as "quite dated" as it is, it is still outselling any other brand's full frame body and holding it's own against the 5DIV. I'm sure Canon would be quite happy to repeat that "mistake."

This.

the 6D sold well, because it simply worked and was a charm to use according to it's fans. I doubt that canon will change that strategy much. it will work, people will say it's a flop, DOA, dumb Canon, stupid Canon, I'm giving up and moving to Sony/Nikon/Panasonic/Fuji/Kodak/Tonka/Lego/Ikea .. and a few months will pass, and people that actually bought it will discover it's a great camera to use.

Rinse and repeat for every canon camera release.

I don't believe you were implying I was saying "flop, DOA, dumb Canon, stupid Canon", just more speaking in general to the Canon haters. However in case you were I just want to reiterate I was merely making a couple simple points.

One, Canon has some of the longest product release cycles in the industry. Right... so on the higher end stuff, we're looking at 5 years or so. Therefore what they release needs to "hold up", "be competitive", etc. for a while.

Two, obviously it's technically a subjective statement, but one I feel many would agree with, the current 6D has a "quite dated" AF system. Aka, the AF system they chose at design time did not hold up as well through the life of the product as I'm sure Canon would have initially hoped. And please understand, as a whole I really enjoy my 6D and the glass I mount on there. But, I think that even solid Canon fans, if they paused and were honest, would agree with my statement. For the class of camera it is... the AF system is showing it's age and then some, especially where the competition has gone since the development and release of the original 6D.

Therefore, I think the AF on the new 6D2 will be quite satisfactory, at least for myself, and my use cases. I'm frankly looking forward to it and may even break my typical pre-order rule.

 

[tron]

If it's not 4k then it's already dead.

Can I have an already dead 6DMkII with 24-28Mp, 6fps, better DR and high iso performance? Thanks ;D

 

[dflt]

People demand all kinds of features for an entry level FF dslr, but they are not market specialists, they don't have statistics, proper numbers for what people want. Canon does. And yet they slam themselves into the ground if their expectations are not met.

 

[LesC]

We all have different requirements too - for example I only ever use the centre focus point (& recompose) on my 6D & I've never used thew video function .....

 

[Diko]

My take is:

* 28 MP.
* A stop below 5D4 in ISO.
* DR as 5D4 (same tech in CMOS censor)
* DPAF
* Stupid DualRAW ver. 1.2
* DIGIC7 -> here we can observe a few new software tricks and ideas due to the new CPU functions encoded
* Tilt 3.2" or 3" screen (I bet on 3" due to smaller body)
* Single card reader (this is an entry level FF, remember?)
* Plastic-is-fantastic body
* 5 fps
* Wifi
* GPS (bonus.... eventually, but I bet there'll be)
* same battery as in 5D4
* 2000 $, €, £.

-> No 4K!

Nothing more, nothing less. A little bit higher than the previous one as promised. But not enough to cannibalize 5D4.

 

[Steve Balcombe]

the 6D sold well, because it simply worked and was a charm to use according to it's fans. I doubt that canon will change that strategy much.

The 6D sold (sells) well because Canon realised there was a market for a body with an excellent full frame sensor and not much else of note, for what is by full frame standards an entry-level price.

The 6D2 needs to continue in the same spirit, and I am sure it will. Expectations are much higher now than in 2012 of course, and give or take a few details the 'full frame 80D' many of us are anticipating will fit the bill.

 

[IglooEater]

I'm with you 100% on the $1,300 question.

But even mid-level crop rigs like the 80D got 1/8000 shutter, so one expects the 6D2 to get it as well.

Sync speed is all over the map for Canon:

1D series = 1/250
5D series = 1/200
6D1 = 1/180
7D series / XXD = 1/250 (Why?! Because crop needs faster shutter speeds?)

My guess is the 6D2 will be 1/180 again as a petty nerf to the 5D4.
- A

I agree, I'd love to see 1/8000 too. No, the sync speed is very logical. The aps-c sensor is smaller - therefore the shutter doesn't have to travel as fast to sync. Take a flash shot at 1/250 on the 6D and I'm willing to bet you'll have at least an aps-c sized section of the sensor illuminated.

Edit: Thought I might affirm that I too would love to see higher sync speeds. Maybe 1/500 as in the original 1D, along with 1/16,000 second ;D

 

[IglooEater]

My take is:

* 28 MP.
* A stop below 5D4 in ISO.
* DR as 5D4 (same tech in CMOS censor)
* DPAF
* Stupid DualRAW ver. 1.2
* DIGIC7 -> here we can observe a few new software tricks and ideas due to the new CPU functions encoded
* Tilt 3.2" or 3" screen (I bet on 3" due to smaller body)
* Single card reader (this is an entry level FF, remember?)
* Plastic-is-fantastic body
* 5 fps
* Wifi
* GPS (bonus.... eventually, but I bet there'll be)
* same battery as in 5D4
* 2000 $, €, £.

-> No 4K!

Nothing more, nothing less. A little bit higher than the previous one as promised. But not enough to cannibalize 5D4.

You missed the most critical specification. The only important aspect is the AF system. I'd be happy enough with the 6D exactly as it is with a 45 point af thrown in. In 2017 the competition at </=2000 is not the D610, but the the D750, with its 51point af and 6.5 fps