Sony Announces the Sony A7 V

[EOS 4 Life]

It's pretty clear that Canon wanted to slightly eclipse the Sony A7V with every spec

I am not sure how Canon or Sony would even know what the other was going to come out with.
Each camera was a reasonable upgrade.
The only advantage that Sony had is that they knew the Canon price ahead of setting theirs.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

In full earnest now: What you just wrote about Sony's ergonomics is absolutely true, these cameras are only usable with baby-sized hands.

In all honesty, I do know people with smaller hands who prefer Sony.
Although, their cameras have gotten much bigger over the years.
They are smart enough to keep making the a7C to retain those people.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

The well known Sony Cripple Hammer.

The 15 FPS limit was never an issue with people buying at this level before, since their cameras were crippled.
Now it has really come to light.
Plus, Sigma is making high-end lenses that people at the a1 and a9 level would be interested in now.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

They know they are only a few iterations away from making a camera that most people wont need to upgrade from and that is bad for future business.

Not if your business is selling lenses.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

The EF mount was open - kind of maybe but people could mount Sigma and other lenses on their EF DSLR cameras and that did not prevent Canon from remaining the #1 manufacturer for decades.

Canon was #1 because the EF mount was the standard for cinema cameras with autofocus.
Now everyone has their own mirrorless mount.
Canon only has itself and whatever RED cameras are still on the RF mount.
There is no foreseeable way of them getting that lens market share again.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

DJI got my money and Hasselblad will get my money.

DJI and Hasselblad are far from open.
Fuji is far more open than Hasselblad if that is your goal.

 

[roby17269]

DJI and Hasselblad are far from open.
Fuji is far more open than Hasselblad if that is your goal.

Unless you're talking Inspire or bigger drones (15 grands or above), all consumer camera drones have fixed cameras. Why would they need to be open? Do you complain that phone makers do not make their phones "open"?
You can adapt some lenses to HC. And I use medium format for very specific use cases and the lenses available are ok - and I much prefer Hassy's color science to Fuji's (not dissing Fuji: I like a lot of what they are doing in MF). I use RF for a much wider variety of use cases and therefore I want a much larger variety of lenses.

In any case why would those matter about the discussion about the openness of Canon's RF? Other systems being more or less open does not affect my desire for a 35 1.2 (e.g.) on RF.

 

[roby17269]

Canon was #1 because the EF mount was the standard for cinema cameras with autofocus.
Now everyone has their own mirrorless mount.
Canon only has itself and whatever RED cameras are still on the RF mount.
There is no foreseeable way of them getting that lens market share again.

Are you saying that the cinema market was so big to affect those statistics? Ok sure. So what?
There is a dissonance here: I am pushing my own desires and wants, you are defending a corporate strategy. Don't think we'll ever get to an agreement

 

[roby17269]

Canon has a great management for that. You can map a button to “lock” and then press delete all files (except for the ones picked with “lock”) and you keep the one or two best.

But I need to see the images on a big screen to decide which ones are the best ones... so not sure that would work for me.

I didn’t mean the Sigmas are bad. I meant suitable for a person. I use the 14-35 f/4, 28-70/2.8 and 70-200 f/4 and other systems have worse variants FOR ME. I also use the 600mm f/11, also a lens that I like and don’t see in other systems.
I totally understand that other people have other preferences and therefore they choose different systems

That's absolutely fine I am a big proponents of everyone's individual needs and wants being valid and important!
I am a self-professed prime snob so a few of the recent Sigma offerings do tickle my fancy. But again, if Canon had competing lenses, I would have no doubt about which ones I would go for... native first!

 

[roby17269]

The Z9 is essential a Z8 in a larger body. They are both direct competitors to the R5mii. If you want the larger body on the R5mii then just add the battery grip. All three of these cameras are 45MP.

Disagree with you here: for me there is a value in a gripped body, so Z9 and Z8 are not the same camera, albeit I agree that Nikon differentiates those much less than Canon

I don't see this as the case for resolution. 8k tv sales peaked in 2022 and have declined ever since leading companies like Sony exited the market. 12K cameras are used in high end filmaking in order to be able to stablize and reframe the content later. Again you can buy an SSC Tuatara that is street legal and goes 295 mph. But this is an incredibly niche market, as will anything more than 8k will likely be.

Luxury and professional are different types of market. In any case whether you see the need for > 4K or not is immaterial: 12K / 8K may be limited to big Hollywood productions right now, but they will eventually trickle down. It took time for 4K to become mainstream. But 4K was a reality for professional production while we all were watching TV on 720p screens

The human eye can only see so much detail. It's hard to commoditize something you cant see or use, which is exactly why companies like Sony stopped making 8k tvs. For a 75" tv you would need to be sitting 3 - 4 feet away from the tv to even be able to notice a difference. But sitting that close to that size TV would be uncomfortable. Meanwhile in the real world most people are viewing content on their 6" smartphone.

I watch content on a 8'' (foldable) phone and Samsung just announced the trifold which will have a 10'' screen
In terms of TV size, we went from 55'' being the sweet spot to 65'' and now 77''
All these changes take time for them to go from high-end to consumer-level, and sometimes the changes are fast and sometimes they are slow. And a specific change may depend on many others to happen (e.g. powerful enough computers becoming mainstream for image / video processing).
While we don't necessarily see it, a lot of advances are being pushed by AI nowadays.
But short of catastrophes, progress will progress

 

[masterpix]

It all comes to "brand", as today, both cameras are very good, and the diffrerences are small to non exist. What matters is the glass you have and your creativity. Once you ahve glass of one brain you are not likely to change brand cause glass last much longer than the camera body. For instance, I still use EF glass on RF camera.

 

[rombe3jr]

I am not sure how Canon or Sony would even know what the other was going to come out with.
Each camera was a reasonable upgrade.
The only advantage that Sony had is that they knew the Canon price ahead of setting theirs.

And Sony still priced the A7V $100 (USD) above the Canon R6 III. That's with less features, no Open Gate, etc. Sony are asking customers, especially new ones, to take a closer look at Canon. This is all good for Canon.

 

[snapshot]

It all comes to "brand", as today, both cameras are very good, and the diffrerences are small to non exist. What matters is the glass you have and your creativity. Once you ahve glass of one brain you are not likely to change brand cause glass last much longer than the camera body. For instance, I still use EF glass on RF camera.

i agree, my EF lenses are still very useful. In fact, i use them frequently with the VND adapter. (Huge reason to choose EF on RF). I am not sure that lenses will outlast cameras for very much longer though. most of my camera purchases have been attempts to gain some function and allow me to get the pictures i want more reliably. I have yet to wear out a camera (I have dropped some point and shoots in the sand). they day is coming when I wont see value in a new camera. For a lot of folks, that day may already have come.

 

[masterpix]

i agree, my EF lenses are still very useful. In fact, i use them frequently with the VND adapter. (Huge reason to choose EF on RF). I am not sure that lenses will outlast cameras for very much longer though. most of my camera purchases have been attempts to gain some function and allow me to get the pictures i want more reliably. I have yet to wear out a camera (I have dropped some point and shoots in the sand). they day is coming when I wont see value in a new camera. For a lot of folks, that day may already have come.

Not sure that wearing the camera is the right word, but with new features, 4-6 years in camera "cycle" brings HUGE evolution steps, while lenses tends to taek much longer to make such huge lhow cameras bodies evolved since while the RF 28-70 still eap. the RF 28-70 F2 was introduced with the first RF camera, while the 28-70F2 still didn't get mark-II

 

[Traveler]

But I need to see the images on a big screen to decide which ones are the best ones... so not sure that would work for me.

It really depends on what you're shooting. I can choose to shoot 1 frame or 40fps. If I shoot 40fps and pick the "winner" right away and delete the rest then I probably end up with a better pick than if I just shoot a random 1 frame or shoot 3fps. I totally understand what you're saying because for a long time I also resisted to shoot more fps.
It's really easy to check the pics (usually it's just about choosing the right moment and you see it even on the small LCD or in the EVF), you can even quickly check if it is in focus (the zoom button can be set so it magnifies 100% to the AF point so it is just one click).
The most dificult part is deleting the rest of the pics but if you think that you wouldn't get that perfect moment with a single frame anyways, then it's easy.
BTW, I always keep the keepers on my primary card and still leave the rest on the second card. That way I keep my primary card "tidy" but still have all the pics on the second card just in case. And yes, my second card is much larger.

Maybe it is not for you but I guess it can inspire other readers here.

 

[rombe3jr]

There are a few lenses on my radar over on the Sony "E" mount: Sirui 85mm f/1.4 ($440 USD) and the Sirui 35mm f/1.4 ($550), mostly just curious about the quality to price ratio. The Tamron 35-150 f/2-2.8 ($1,600) for its versatility. Then there are the Sony FE 50-150 f/2 ($4,000) and the Sony FE 28-70 f/2 ($3,350). The only lens that Canon has on this list to directly compete on a dollar for spec basis is the 28-70 f/2 (the "OG"), but Sony managed to get the weight down by 1.15 pounds then they went and extended the same fixed focal length to 150mm in their next lens, the FE 50-150 f/2, leapfrogging our own "OG" lens, twice really. Traditionally Sony falls a few bucks more expensive on a lens to lens comparison of "G-Master" to "L" lenses, and Sony had to go and rub salt in the wound by charging a few bucks less for the 1.15 lb lighter FE 28-70 f/2 as well. Its nice that Canon is making a 45mm f/1.2 lens for only $470 (we need kids to have a reason to climb the Canon ladder. I don't want to die being the only Canon shooter around). But I would like to see Canon working on some mid-range to high end lenses too.

 

[DBounce]

Ignoring video and appreciating the well balanced photo specs of this A7V, the one major downside left is ergonomics: I tried one out (again) this weekend and I agree with you, I almost cannot use it. It is as if they design the grip without ever mounting a lens on the body... A1II/A9III got that almorst right! What's stopping Sony to bring that shape to the A7 line?

The A9III and A1II are Sony flagships. That body is one of the signature features of the flagsships... Similar to how to the R1 has a larger "Pro" body.

 

[snapshot]

Not sure that wearing the camera is the right word, but with new features, 4-6 years in camera "cycle" brings HUGE evolution steps, while lenses tends to taek much longer to make such huge lhow cameras bodies evolved since while the RF 28-70 still eap. the RF 28-70 F2 was introduced with the first RF camera, while the 28-70F2 still didn't get mark-II

i am not so much into video, but what would cause me to buy another camera after r52?
* better rolling shutter/global shutter? yes. but r52 is way better than r5 which is way better than 5d4. i still havent bought the A93.
* better operation in hot summer days? maybe, r52's thermometer gets to about 1/2 during august sports shoots @ 12 FPS w/precapture.
* faster card writes? maybe, if i decide that something more that 12 FPS is practicable.
* dual cfe? probably not.
* higher resolution? no. both 45 and 30 are enough for me.
* better auto-focus? maybe but r52 is pretty good, and r5 was not bad and i did ok with 5d4 and 5d2.
* foveon? this sounds super cool to me also.
* better dynamic range? is 2 stops better even possible?
* better battery life? possible, i carry 4 batteries for r52 and only carried 2 for 5d4.
* square sensor? i like the idea, but RF mount contacts are probably in the way.
* super nifty software? photo-pro could be better for sure, wish it could do all the stuff the phones do...
* support for magic lantern / other open firmware development?

 

[masterpix]

i am not so much into video, but what would cause me to buy another camera after r52?
* better rolling shutter/global shutter? yes. but r52 is way better than r5 which is way better than 5d4. i still havent bought the A93.
* better operation in hot summer days? maybe, r52's thermometer gets to about 1/2 during august sports shoots @ 12 FPS w/precapture.
* faster card writes? maybe, if i decide that something more that 12 FPS is practicable.
* dual cfe? probably not.
* higher resolution? no. both 45 and 30 are enough for me.
* better auto-focus? maybe but r52 is pretty good, and r5 was not bad and i did ok with 5d4 and 5d2.
* foveon? this sounds super cool to me also.
* better dynamic range? is 2 stops better even possible?
* better battery life? possible, i carry 4 batteries for r52 and only carried 2 for 5d4.
* square sensor? i like the idea, but RF mount contacts are probably in the way.
* super nifty software? photo-pro could be better for sure, wish it could do all the stuff the phones do...
* support for magic lantern / other open firmware development?

 

[masterpix]

I will probabaly spend my not so big account on lenses, 24-70 when the Z will come, the 70-200Z and the 200-800...