Sony does it again, A7 II with 5-axis in-body stabilization

[Rupp1]

I've already tried the A7r + 55/1.8 + adapted lenses experiment for a few months and decided I just didn't care for the whole setup. It had/has some advantages. But the disadvantages and frustrations I had outweighed the positives which has led the rig out of my door.

That being said, the A7II is really intriguing with the updated AF and IBIS. My interest is piqued once again.

That's pretty much where I am. Wanted to take gear on a motorcycle trip, so I got an a7r. Although the 55mm is quite good, I find the camera to be slow, and very finicky. The 35mm is OK (but I had to glue the sun shade back together after it separated for no good reason). The telephoto zoom was only the second lens that I have ever returned in my life. IMHO not great at many apertures, and far too many speeds. I'd like to see if Sony can improve it, but I see no reason to dump my Canon gear which is good for almost everything, if heavier. Now I wonder if I should get a 5D III to go with the 1Dx, or wait for a new full frame.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Also, am I going to have to look at trying to upgrade my outdated camera body every year?

Why would you upgrade if your current model does what you need it to do?

Just because a new model comes out does not make the previous model "out dated". Of course that is what the camera manufacturers want you to believe.

Because there is a good portion of me that is a gear head/gear snob/whore for technological advancement that I don't do a very good job of ignoring all the time. ;D

That same question could be asked of most of the things that I have upgraded/replaced over the years. Why would I? Because I can, want to, and inherently need to since I am aware that there is something better. lol.

Put it this way. Had I bought the A7 at any point since it was released, I'd be pissed right now as two of the main changes/additions/features are very significant to me. There is nothing that would lead me to believe that if I allowed myself to get sucked in again that we won't be having this conversation on November 20, 2015 again. Except at that point, I would actually have the burden of trying to get rid of a Sony body.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

That's pretty much where I am. Wanted to take gear on a motorcycle trip, so I got an a7r. Although the 55mm is quite good, I find the camera to be slow, and very finicky. The 35mm is OK (but I had to glue the sun shade back together after it separated for no good reason). The telephoto zoom was only the second lens that I have ever returned in my life. IMHO not great at many apertures, and far too many speeds. I'd like to see if Sony can improve it, but I see no reason to dump my Canon gear which is good for almost everything, if heavier. Now I wonder if I should get a 5D III to go with the 1Dx, or wait for a new full frame.

Slow and finicky definitely sums up a lot of my feelings about it. The handling and UI just don't do it for me along with a few other issues. If any of the a7x bodies handled like my X-T1, I would be much more inclined to give it another go. That, and I would need them to add a 35/1.4 to their ecosystem. As it stands, they have nothing that remotely covers my needs except for the 55 (which is still not exactly what I want).

 

[sdsr]

Also, am I going to have to look at trying to upgrade my outdated camera body every year?

Why would you upgrade if your current model does what you need it to do?

Just because a new model comes out does not make the previous model "out dated". Of course that is what the camera manufacturers want you to believe.

Right, though in this particular case the addition of OM-D style IBIS is, as far as I'm concerned, much more than a minor tweak of the sort that tends to distinguish camera lines that get regular updates; I seldom use anything but primes on my mirrorless Sonys and, aside from two Canon primes, none of the ones I own has IS. As others have said, it's helpful to have stabilization as good as Olympus's best for whatever lens you attach (presumably, as with Olympus, if you attach a lens with IS you choose which version of stabilization you want to disable the other; you don't use both together). I'll certainly buy one.

 

[zlatko]

Canon is only "asleep" if you must downsize to a mirrorless-sized body, must have in-body IS, or must have a Sony sensor for some reason. Otherwise, they make a highly functional camera system with so many great components and options. I'd love to see a great Canon mirrorless that looks very much like this A72, but I'm not sure there's a compelling reason for Canon to make one. It will be sweet if and when they do.

 

[zlatko]

Slow and finicky definitely sums up a lot of my feelings about it. The handling and UI just don't do it for me along with a few other issues. If any of the a7x bodies handled like my X-T1, I would be much more inclined to give it another go. That, and I would need them to add a 35/1.4 to their ecosystem. As it stands, they have nothing that remotely covers my needs except for the 55 (which is still not exactly what I want).

Does anyone know whether the newer A7S is slow and finicky too? For some reason, Sony wants a lot more money for the A7S than for the A7 or A7R. Does this mean it's speedier and better in operation?

 

[AcutancePhotography]

Because there is a good portion of me that is a gear head/gear snob/whore for technological advancement that I don't do a very good job of ignoring all the time. ;D

I applaud your honestly. LoL Bottom line is that is the way many of us really feel deep down. We just don't always have the guts to confess. ;D

 

[JohnDizzo15]

I applaud your honestly. LoL Bottom line is that is the way many of us really feel deep down. We just don't always have the guts to confess. ;D

LOL. I'd say that is one of the elephants in the room when it comes to a forum about anything that involves tech, rumors, and development.

In this case though, the IBIS and the claimed improvement in AF speed are huge advancements for my needs. So while it simultaneously scratches the gear head itch of mine, it is something I actually would have great use for.

BTW, I say claimed AF speed as I have learned way too many times as of late that all these mirrorless companies love to claim the same thing since they know it is a big knock on the body type. "25% faster," "30% faster," "Fastest AF to date," "Fastest in the market." That all means nothing to me at this point. Show me accuracy and speed in all the lighting conditions people actually shoot in and I'll start sipping the kool-aid. But until then, all I have to say is that all those proclamations have been nothing more than headline/attention grabbers.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

If your current whatever does what you need then why do you need the latest?

As I have stated, I am a gear whore. But in this case, the jump from A7 mark 1 to 2 is a leap. A leap which provides features that I would love and need.

Do you update your computer every year?

No, but this is apples and oranges. If there were a technological leap year over year, the answer would be yes. But the fact of the matter is, anyone who knows anything about computers knows that they merely bleed out the 10% bump in performance every year which with current tech doesn't really help me much until I get to about the 3 or 4 year mark.

Do you get a new car every year?

If it only cost me a few thousand dollars and was a leap from the previous car I had, yes. But again, apples and oranges as there are many variables that differ with car purchases.

When it comes to anything "hi-tech", products are generally obsolete the minute that they go on sale because there is already newer technology being developed and on the way to becoming a newer version of said products already.

Very true. And I learned to accept that a long time ago e.g. computers. But that doesn't apply here since the leap from year to year in the A7 has yielded significant changes.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Why would you be pissed?
Because the manufacturer improved the way a feature worked and released an updated model?
How can you be angry with them for that?

A. If it were merely the AF speed improvement and nothing else, this could be done in firmware as Sony themselves have stated that it is a result of a change in algorithm. Fuji improves AF speed via firmware even in previous generations of the same cam.
B. In this case, I would moreso be angry with them for the IBIS specifically.

Because they didn't put it in the model/version that you bought?
See above
There are limitations as to what a company can develop and deliver in any given period of time for a new product. The same is true for Canon.

To pick a simple example, if you bought a 5D Mark II when it first came out, how long did you have to wait for the 5D Mark III in order to get the in-camera leveling tool? With Canon, this problem is worse because you wait twice as long for the same quantity of updates.

No product is perfect, so why be angry with a manufacturer for releasing a better product of the one that they already sell?

Nobody would be forcing you to sell...

 

[RLPhoto]

Incremental sync speed is vastly over rated and not the panacea many seem to think it is. Besides, the 1D from 2002 synced at 1/500 and the 1D MkIV syncs at 1/300 AND, speedlites like the 600-EX-RT, 580 EX II, Nikon SB910 etc have full power flash duration in the 1/250-1/350 range anyway, shorter shutter speeds actually cut your power even when you are not in HSS.

I disagree. A FF camera with a sync speed @ 1/500th at that price would be a game changer. The X100 is already a hit with many strobists. It means I can stress my speedlites less, better battery life, and less headaches of battery pack swaps.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

@Dilbert - Re the car analogy, fixes to minor issues is one thing. Adding IBIS to any camera body that didn't previously have it is another. The better car analogy would be if the same car from the same company went from 250hp in 2012 to 300hp (a la AF speed increase) with a newly developed 7 speed transmission (IBIS) for the exact same price as the previous year's model.

IBIS for the record, is an astronomically large addition/development to the A7 body. It is the first IBIS in a full frame body which also makes it ground breaking. So it is by no means merely an incremental bump.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

It is the first IBIS in a full frame body which also makes it ground breaking. So it is by no means merely an incremental bump.

I think the SLT-A99 also had IBIS. But the a7 is the first with this 5 axis IBIS though

 

[JohnDizzo15]

It is the first IBIS in a full frame body which also makes it ground breaking. So it is by no means merely an incremental bump.

I think the SLT-A99 also had IBIS. But the a7 is the first with this 5 axis IBIS though

You're absolutely correct. My mistake. I was too quick to parrot an annoucement I read re the A72.

 

[jaayres20]

Even if a mirrorless camera had the same great AF performance I would not buy one because it is too small. How am I supposed to wear one of those little cameras hanging off of my shoulder with a flash attached and a large lens like my 70-200 or 200mm for extended periods of time and not break the camera? I need a camera that feels good with big gear. Frankly it can't see a mirrorless having the same AF performance at a high frame rate for a long while yet. We are supposed to overlook a lot of inconveniences with this sony just so we can get a little better IQ via more DR at base ISO.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

@Dilbert - Re the car analogy, fixes to minor issues is one thing. Adding IBIS to any camera body that didn't previously have it is another. The better car analogy would be if the same car from the same company went from 250hp in 2012 to 300hp (a la AF speed increase) with a newly developed 7 speed transmission (IBIS) for the exact same price as the previous year's model.

That sounds like a huge win for consumers.

IBIS for the record, is an astronomically large addition/development to the A7 body. It is the first IBIS in a full frame body which also makes it ground breaking. So it is by no means merely an incremental bump.

So what is there to be upset about?

While it may not be a problem for people that are new to the Sony market, it is a problem for people that are already a part of the market (i.e. already own a Sony rig). This is mainly due to the fact that they are presenting large jumps in tech for the same price in a short span of time. What this does is depreciate the value of what you had already purchased very recently. It also doesn't serve to create consumer satisfaction as many buyers will be discontent year over year once seeing that they paid the same price not too long ago for something that is nowhere near as good as the new one. Again, we are not talking incremental improvements. Consequently making me uneasy about holding onto any Sony body for too long.

I may be way off on this theory as I do not know the mass market personally. But just speaking from my vantage point, anticipation of devaluation and the presentation of something much better pushed me to get rid of the A7r rig I had quickly as I didn't want to be left with it once the mark 2 came out months later. I had realized I wasn't completely happy with it and just pulled the trigger on getting rid of it (much like a hot potato). Otherwise, I probably would have played with it for a few more months.

To me, it just feels like Sony is hitting the market with a barrage of varying products essentially throwing tons of stuff against the wall to see what sticks. That, at least for me is definitely not confidence building.

 

[infared]

Yeah...its impressive..yes...Canon is sound asleep...but I still can't get from a sony what I can get image-wise with my 5DIII with my Sigma 50mm f/1.4, Canon 85mm f/1.2 etc......from the standpoint of low DOF ...etc....Sony just doesn't have the wide f-stop lenses with AF....but man...that body just keeps getting sweeter and sweeter. Canon....WAKE UP!

So far as I know, the Sigma 50/1.4 Art Sony A mount version is available for pre-order:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1045485-REG/sigma_311205_50mm_f_1_4_dg_hsm.html

OK...and there is supposed to be an AF improvement....but the lens choices are still lacking..and so many complain about how the camera handles....and then return or sell it.... I just don't think that the whole camera/system has gelled yet.. I am going to stay with my full MFT kit (EM1) and my FF Kit (MarkIII) ...for the time being... Even with the 5-Axis (which is GREAT in my EM1)... I don't think that the Sony experience is "there there" yet. ....but I will continue to read up on it and follow the innovations. I am just not ready to cash in my two systems (they are both fluid photographers tools), to go "all in" on the Sony.... ..but to each his own.

 

[privatebydesign]

Incremental sync speed is vastly over rated and not the panacea many seem to think it is. Besides, the 1D from 2002 synced at 1/500 and the 1D MkIV syncs at 1/300 AND, speedlites like the 600-EX-RT, 580 EX II, Nikon SB910 etc have full power flash duration in the 1/250-1/350 range anyway, shorter shutter speeds actually cut your power even when you are not in HSS.

I disagree. A FF camera with a sync speed @ 1/500th at that price would be a game changer. The X100 is already a hit with many strobists. It means I can stress my speedlites less, better battery life, and less headaches of battery pack swaps.

Of course you do.

However the X100 sync is a work a round that has it's own limitations, anything short of a true shutterless sensor read exposure and very short flash duration is. The real game changer in this area for serious pros has not been the X100 but the Profoto B1 Air kit, sync at any speed and any aperture, true HSS with a decent amount of power.

And now the Chinese are coming out with their own versions of powerful HSS enabled integrated battery powered studio strobe crossovers at a fraction the price, that is where the strobists that want to push boundaries should be looking, not at leaf shutter hacks.

 

[drjlo]

Personally, I was waiting for A7R II with quiet shutter, faster frame rates, and non-lossy RAW files. A smalish 35 mm f/2. lens like on RX1/R would have helped the cause greatly as well.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

However the X100 sync is a work a round that has it's own limitations, anything short of a true shutterless sensor read exposure and very short flash duration is. The real game changer in this area for serious pros has not been the X100 but the Profoto B1 Air kit, sync at any speed and any aperture, true HSS with a decent amount of power.

And now the Chinese are coming out with their own versions of powerful HSS enabled integrated battery powered studio strobe crossovers at a fraction the price, that is where the strobists that want to push boundaries should be looking, not at leaf shutter hacks.

Very good point regarding what the best option for strobists may be. There are definitely limitations even with the x100 setup. However, the kit you're referring to starts at just shy of $4,000. I would love to have it. But for mere mortals like myself, a used x100 runs about 400-600 bucks nowadays (x100s for 800-950).

Haven't read anything about the chinese knockoff versions. But you definitely have my interest piqued. Although I don't know what price range they would fall into as even 25-50% of the cost of the name brand kit would be too expensive more many.

BTW, can you point me in the right direction with some names of the knockoffs? Thanks in advance.