Sony finally offers big/fast zooms

[ahsanford]

I love the prospect of owning a mirrorless rig someday. I love my 5D3 and am in no hurry to replace it. But in 5 years time, I could see myself owning a mirrorless rig.

I've ranted and raved about how the mirrorless market needs to decide if it will be focused on being smaller than a comparable SLR or if it will be focused on doing everything an SLR can (and someday, more).

Sony has withheld f/2.8 zooms from it's users for some time, but no more:

http://photorumors.com/2016/02/03/sony-launches-new-g-master-brand-of-interchangeable-lenses/

As expected, Sony is playing for the latter/red camp above, but it underscores how pursuing the "do everything an SLR can" crusade can completely torpedo keeping it small. Physics it physics and all, and those fast zooms are anything but small.

Curious to see how that 70-200 f/2.8 handles with a Rebel-sized grip on a long day of shooting...

- A

 

[AvTvM]

yep. Sony really bringing down the mirrorless hammer on CaNikon. Will be interesting to see, how they'll fare in the market. By now it is extremely clear to me that my Canon 5D 3 is *definitely* the last mirrorslapper I've bought.


btw: nothing "torpedoed" mirrorless size & weight advantage is still intact. As opposed to any [humongous] mirrorslapper, with a mirrorless camera you CAN go small, light and unbtrousive whenever you want and small/slower/fixed focal lenses are fine for the task at hand. And when needed, *** but only then *** you can mount those fast, large lenses. I still call that one of the many great mirrorless advantages.

I prefer to have one camera, one lens system, one sort of flash protocol etc. only. Causes far less hassle. re different batteries, differet memory cards, different chargers, different raw/post-processing workflows etc. - so my next camera will be the smallest bodied, fully featured, Full Frame sensored mirrorless system I can get my hands on.

 

[ahsanford]

yep. Sony really bringing down the mirrorless hammer on CaNikon. Will be interesting to see, how they'll fare in the market. By now it is extremely clear to me that my Canon 5D 3 is *definitely* the last mirrorslapper I've bought.


btw: nothing "torpedoed" mirrorless size & weight advantage is still intact. As opposed to any [humongous] mirrorslapper, with a mirrorless camera you CAN go small, light and unbtrousive whenever you want and small/slower/fixed focal lenses are fine for the task at hand. And when needed, *** but only then *** you can mount those fast, large lenses. I still call that one of the many great mirrorless advantages.

I prefer to have one camera, one lens system, one sort of flash protocol etc. only. Causes far less hassle. re different batteries, differet memory cards, different chargers, different raw/post-processing workflows etc. - so my next camera will be the smallest bodied, fully featured, Full Frame sensored mirrorless system I can get my hands on.

I hear you. My slow prime walkaround play is the 5D3 + EF 28 f/2.8 IS USM. Small, sure, but it absolutely could be smaller without the mirror and with a native FF mirrorless mount lens. The closest A7 play in the camera size database I could make is the 35mm f/2 Loxia or the 28mm f/2 Sony:

http://j.mp/1KqhRKJ

Yes, both A7 scenarios are a stop faster, so I appreciate it's not apples to apples.

But I do see it somewhat like you do. I want one system, and I'd love it to be small for simple walkaround needs but also stout enough for my 70-200 f/2.8L IS II (which is the biggest lens I'll ever own).

But I'll never migrate, so that future FF mirrorless rig will undoubtedly be Canon's. I can wait.

- A

 

[Loswr]

yep. Sony really bringing down the mirrorless hammer on CaNikon.

Lol. Off your meds again?

I prefer to have one camera, one lens system, one sort of flash protocol etc. only. Causes far less hassle. re different batteries, differet memory cards, different chargers, different raw/post-processing workflows etc. - so my next camera will be the smallest bodied, fully featured, Full Frame sensored mirrorless system I can get my hands on.

Well, you should be just thrilled with Sony's awesome selection of lenses and flashes. Have fun!

 

[AvTvM]

Well, you should be just thrilled with Sony's awesome selection of lenses and flashes. Have fun!

That is the problem .. standing between myself and Sony. Canon doesn't have the right bodies, Sony does not have the right lenses ... although they are getting there as far as FE [FF] is concerned. APs-C is a disaster zone.

How I'd wish I could get that A6300 sensor plus EVF plus AF-system in the shape of a Canon "EOS-M4"... and mount my EF-M lenses on it. And my 600EX-RTs would also work then.

But who knows, by the time I'm through with my 5D 3, Sony A7 III or IV will be around and a nice range of FE lenses. While Canon will likely still have no FF MILC and no native short-flange back lenses.

 

[ahsanford]

Well, you should be just thrilled with Sony's awesome selection of lenses and flashes. Have fun!

That is the problem .. standing between myself and Sony. Canon doesn't have the right bodies, Sony does not have the right lenses ... although they are getting there as far as FE [FF] is concerned. APs-C is a disaster zone.

How I'd wish I could get that A6300 sensor plus EVF plus AF-system in the shape of a Canon "EOS-M4"... and mount my EF-M lenses on it. And my 600EX-RTs would also work then.

But who knows, by the time I'm through with my 5D 3, Sony A7 III or IV will be around and a nice range of FE lenses. While Canon will likely still have no FF MILC and no native short-flange back lenses.

I'm with Neuro on this (for the most part). As much as I want a smaller rig for walkaround, I want Canon's lenses, ergonomics, service, personal level of trust, and lack of of migration costs far far far more.

Canon only needs to offer two things to get me what I need -- a crappy first FF mirrorless offering and then a basically competitive next iteration and I'll be in on it. Sony has much more to do as I will not adapt lenses -- I want native glass that focuses 98% as quickly/accurately as my EF USM glass.

So, all in all, my chips are all sitting on Canon FF mirrorless.

- A

 

[Loswr]

That is the problem ...

Well, it's your problem.

 

[Larsskv]

That is the problem ...

Well, it's your problem.

I would like to add to that...

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/04/tearing-down-the-sony-24-70-f4-za-oss-vario-tessar

Summary, the Sony 24-70 f/4 uses glue to connect moving parts in the AF system... It seems like every A7 owner with a native lens, will have a (lens) problem at some point, probably sooner than later...

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

That is the problem ...

Well, it's your problem.

I would like to add to that...

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/04/tearing-down-the-sony-24-70-f4-za-oss-vario-tessar

Summary, the Sony 24-70 f/4 uses glue to connect moving parts in the AF system... It seems like every A7 owner with a native lens, will have a (lens) problem at some point, probably sooner than later...

Sony does not have a repair facility in the US. They contract to Precision Camera, or the lenses are sent back to Japan. Repairs are so expensive in any event, that they are disposable items.

The use of glue to hold that coil is going to cause problems for products used in extreme environments, thermal expansion and contraction along with movement of the AF motor is going to eventually loosen the coil, and then, a drop of glue costs $900!

Sony may look good on paper, but in practice, the fine details can get you.

 

[Larsskv]

That is the problem ...

Well, it's your problem.

I would like to add to that...

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/04/tearing-down-the-sony-24-70-f4-za-oss-vario-tessar

Summary, the Sony 24-70 f/4 uses glue to connect moving parts in the AF system... It seems like every A7 owner with a native lens, will have a (lens) problem at some point, probably sooner than later...

Sony does not have a repair facility in the US. They contract to Precision Camera, or the lenses are sent back to Japan. Repairs are so expensive in any event, that they are disposable items.

The use of glue to hold that coil is going to cause problems for products used in extreme environments, thermal expansion and contraction along with movement of the AF motor is going to eventually loosen the coil, and then, a drop of glue costs $900!

Sony may look good on paper, but in practice, the fine details can get you.

And we are still being gentle with Sony here. We haven't even talked about the lens quality variations...

 

[rs]

These lenses will balance really nicely on the small A7 bodies :

 

[ahsanford]

1) Forgive me for posturing -- I didn't start this thread as a cause to bolt, flip, migrate, or happy dance. I just find the offering a step towards a Sony having a more fully fleshed out lens portfolio.

2) I have no delusions whatsoever that these lenses will perform across the board as well as their closest Canon counterparts. They are likely to be sharp for their ~ $2k asking prices (the 70-200 has no price as of this moment!), but other than that, all bets are off. I highly doubt they are as well-built and well thought through as current L lenses.

3) I also ran a quick weight assessment for fun (source: B&H):

The small walkaround setup:
5D3 + 28mm f/2.8 IS USM = 1,121g
A7R II + 35mm f/2.8 + 2 extra batteries = 835g

The pickle jar setup:
5D3 + 24-70 2.8L II = 1,665 g
A7R II + 24-70 2.8 GM + 2 extra batteries = 1,616g

So it's a nice little weight savings for a tiny prime, but that gets blown to hell with these fast zooms. Such is the conundrum of mirrorless. IMHO, it's only attractive for pedestrian needs -- now I love me an f/2.8 or f/2 small walkaround setup, so I find that first option appealing as a 2nd body, but there's no way I'll migrate to Sony for it.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

These lenses will balance really nicely on the small A7 bodies :

I used to put my 70-200 f/2.8L IS II on my old Rebel T1i, and it was some form of wrist torture device.

Consider the 'chunky' A7R II grip in comparison:
http://j.mp/1PB5k7L

- A

 

[Dylan777]

Will add all 3 G Master lenses to my Sony kit.

To me, Canon lenses are still unbeatable from pricing to IQ. I recently sold my 400f2.8 IS II - wonderful, wonderful glass.

I will give the new 70-200 G Master spin once it available. If the IQ is good enough for my needs, I'm more likely commit to mirrorless 100%. Will sell my 1Dx and my last 200f2.

There is no perfect camera/lenses. Pick the ones that fit your shooting style guys

 

[Don Haines]

1) Forgive me for posturing -- I didn't start this thread as a cause to bolt, flip, migrate, or happy dance. I just find the offering a step towards a Sony having a more fully fleshed out lens portfolio.

2) I have no delusions whatsoever that these lenses will perform across the board as well as their closest Canon counterparts. They are likely to be sharp for their ~ $2k asking prices (the 70-200 has no price as of this moment!), but other than that, all bets are off. I highly doubt they are as well-built and well thought through as current L lenses.

3) I also ran a quick weight assessment for fun (source: B&H):

The small walkaround setup:
5D3 + 28mm f/2.8 IS USM = 1,121g
A7R II + 35mm f/2.8 + 2 extra batteries = 835g

The pickle jar setup:
5D3 + 24-70 2.8L II = 1,665 g
A7R II + 24-70 2.8 GM + 2 extra batteries = 1,616g

So it's a nice little weight savings for a tiny prime, but that gets blown to hell with these fast zooms. Such is the conundrum of mirrorless. IMHO, it's only attractive for pedestrian needs -- now I love me an f/2.8 or f/2 small walkaround setup, so I find that first option appealing as a 2nd body, but there's no way I'll migrate to Sony for it.

- A

This is just it...... when talking about weight, it all comes down to the glass. No mater who makes it, lenses of the same focal length and aperture are going to weigh about the same. Bring along lots of glass and it does not matter much which body you choose.....crop or FF, mirrorless or mirrored, the full kit weighs about the same...

 

[Gnocchi]

Yup big and fast zooms, same size and weight of canons stuff.

 

[candc]

i think the sony cameras are more suited for use with small fast primes. i really like using some of the old fd lenses. the only sony lens i have is the fe 55 and it is really good. its super sharp, well built and the af is fast.

this new 85 looks promising but there is already the zeiss batis 85. it will be tough to top that lens. most of the reviews put it right up there with the otus.

none of these new zooms really interest me. i will probably always have several cameras so i don't see the need to use big dslr type zoom lenses on a milc. cameras all have their uses. there doesn't have to be "one camera to rule them all"

 

[Dylan777]

i think the sony cameras are more suited for use with small fast primes. i really like using some of the old fd lenses. the only sony lens i have is the fe 55 and it is really good. its super sharp, well built and the af is fast.



none of these new zooms really interest me. i will probably always have several this new 85 looks promising but there is already the zeiss batis 85. it will be tough to top that lens. most of the reviews put it right up there with the otus.cameras so i don't see the need to use big dslr type zoom lenses on a milc. cameras all have their uses. there doesn't have to be "one camera to rule them all"

Batis 85 is not a bad lens, shot with a7s:
https://dylannguyen.smugmug.com/Events/Share-with-Public/n-2pr3NV/i-t2pGNCQ/A

I'll put new G Master 85 to the test(vs Batis 85). Will keep one at the end...

 

[candc]

i think the sony cameras are more suited for use with small fast primes. i really like using some of the old fd lenses. the only sony lens i have is the fe 55 and it is really good. its super sharp, well built and the af is fast.



none of these new zooms really interest me. i will probably always have several this new 85 looks promising but there is already the zeiss batis 85. it will be tough to top that lens. most of the reviews put it right up there with the otus.cameras so i don't see the need to use big dslr type zoom lenses on a milc. cameras all have their uses. there doesn't have to be "one camera to rule them all"

Batis 85 is not a bad lens, shot with a7s:
https://dylannguyen.smugmug.com/Events/Share-with-Public/n-2pr3NV/i-t2pGNCQ/A

I'll put new G Master 85 to the test(vs Batis 85). Will keep one at the end...

very nice. those portraits really show off the lens. i don't really use the fl length much or i would definitely be looking at the batis.

 

[Gnocchi]

i think the sony cameras are more suited for use with small fast primes. i really like using some of the old fd lenses. the only sony lens i have is the fe 55 and it is really good. its super sharp, well built and the af is fast.



none of these new zooms really interest me. i will probably always have several this new 85 looks promising but there is already the zeiss batis 85. it will be tough to top that lens. most of the reviews put it right up there with the otus.cameras so i don't see the need to use big dslr type zoom lenses on a milc. cameras all have their uses. there doesn't have to be "one camera to rule them all"

Batis 85 is not a bad lens, shot with a7s:
https://dylannguyen.smugmug.com/Events/Share-with-Public/n-2pr3NV/i-t2pGNCQ/A

I'll put new G Master 85 to the test(vs Batis 85). Will keep one at the end...

That's very nice