Sony officially announces the Alpha a7c, the world’s smallest and lightest full-frame camera.

Surab

Olympus OM-D E-M5II
Aug 22, 2020
21
23
The only 2 things it does better than the RP are battery life and AF, but I can live with a few extra batteries and the RP AF is good enough.

Pretty much anything else is bested by the RP and I get the RP and the 24-105 L as a kit for the same price....

What is this even Sony?
 

privatebydesign

Garfield is back...
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,061
3,176
120
Watched a couple reviews on the features. 4k crop, viewfinder blows, one card slot, IS sucks...yaddayaddayadda. I really don't see the appeal and at this price point I don't see too many buying it. Just my two cents.
But isn’t that negativity symptomatic of all camera reviews (and probably reviews of other stuff)? Negativity secures funding for the reviewer as it gets more clicks, the viewers get an ‘excuse’ to not buy something they either didn’t want or need or could afford.

Meanwhile you can’t buy the most vilified recent camera release it is so back ordered, people don’t seem to realize ten people cheer when they say they are going to cancel their order because it moves all of them up one on the waiting list!

Personally I wish Sony a lot of luck with this camera, I always liked the look of the RX1R as a stand out travel camera but they seem to have collectors price tag and I just don’t get on with Sony ergonomics. This is effectively a much cheaper version of the RX1R with an interchangeable lens, what’s not to love?
 

Shellbo6901

EOS M50
Jan 16, 2015
37
8
The name itself just shows that it’s not gonna be so great. But if Sony continues to pop these out as fast as the a7’s then I can see by 2022 for them to have a product that is worthy of that price and then this will be of the RP price, but until then if canon were to have something like this aka a FF M with RF amount, I can 99% see myself purchasing that. SONY could have won me over with this but failed miserably. But I also rented their first alpha and hated it and just kept using my old rebel without video until the R came around and made the jump because my rebel basically croaked. As for the lens if Sony could have come out with a compact and long zoom and not up to just 60, I would be impressed with it but anything below 200, no thx.
 

Billybob

800mm f/11 because a cellphone isn't long enough!
May 22, 2016
116
211
Fro is already giving it a hard time :)
Thanks for sharing. He fully and completely shot down all the arguments I had in favor of this new camera. I still have much of my Sony gear (loving the R5), and there are certain pieces of my Sony kit I won't be letting go anytime soon. One of them is the Sigma 24-70, featured in this video, which is possibly the best 24-70 I've ever used. I haven't shot it against the EF 24-70L 2.8, which I still own, but when I trim down, the Sigma is likely to stay with the EF on the chopping block. I also have no intention of purchasing the RF version. No need to duplicate or replace true excellence.

Sony still has an advantage in that their native lens selection at every price point is incomparable. Yes, Canon has put out some incredible high-end RF glass, but I can't buy great Sigma 14-24 f2.8, 24-70, f/2.8, and (soon) 70-200 f2.8 all for under $1500 each in RF mount. I didn't even mention primes like the 35mm 1.2 or the great Samyang 85mm 1.4 (okay, Canon RF has that one too).

These lenses will come in RF mount, but it will probably be 3-5 years before Canon catches up. In the meantime, Sony needs to stop squandering its advantage on half-hearted efforts like this A7c. Sony can't hold back with the A7 IV release, which needs to (significantly) outperform the R6. And since the A7R line has gotten ridiculous in terms of MP, Sony should finally release an A9R to fill the gap. This camera should have 32-36MP (I'd be okay if it went to 45MP; anymore than that would be counterproductive) with all the performance features of the A9 line.

Competition is wonderful! Canon, with the R5 and R6, has laid a stake in the ground. It's now time for Sony to provide a serious response.
 
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SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
1,622
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Competition is wonderful! Canon, with the R5 and R6, has laid a stake in the ground. It's now time for Sony to provide a serious response.
Note to S*ny: Sending out a bunch of obnoxious trolls to slime the competition does not constitute a serious response.
 
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Dantana

EOS RP
Jan 29, 2013
303
154
Los Angeles, CA
www.flickr.com
But isn’t that negativity symptomatic of all camera reviews (and probably reviews of other stuff)? Negativity secures funding for the reviewer as it gets more clicks, the viewers get an ‘excuse’ to not buy something they either didn’t want or need or could afford.

Meanwhile you can’t buy the most vilified recent camera release it is so back ordered, people don’t seem to realize ten people cheer when they say they are going to cancel their order because it moves all of them up one on the waiting list!

Personally I wish Sony a lot of luck with this camera, I always liked the look of the RX1R as a stand out travel camera but they seem to have collectors price tag and I just don’t get on with Sony ergonomics. This is effectively a much cheaper version of the RX1R with an interchangeable lens, what’s not to love?
I agree. The price of the R1XR was what kept me from seriously looking at it for a compact 2nd camera (ended up with an LX100). This looks pretty cool for what it is. It would be very cool if down the line somewhere there was a similar RF body, though that would also depend on Canon releasing a few more small RF lenses.
 

Surab

Olympus OM-D E-M5II
Aug 22, 2020
21
23
But isn’t that negativity symptomatic of all camera reviews (and probably reviews of other stuff)? Negativity secures funding for the reviewer as it gets more clicks, the viewers get an ‘excuse’ to not buy something they either didn’t want or need or could afford.

Meanwhile you can’t buy the most vilified recent camera release it is so back ordered, people don’t seem to realize ten people cheer when they say they are going to cancel their order because it moves all of them up one on the waiting list!

Personally I wish Sony a lot of luck with this camera, I always liked the look of the RX1R as a stand out travel camera but they seem to have collectors price tag and I just don’t get on with Sony ergonomics. This is effectively a much cheaper version of the RX1R with an interchangeable lens, what’s not to love?
I don't know. This camera is completely overpriced for what it offers and should be rightfully squashed. If we just allow companies to do whatever they want without outcry then 1/3 of the current Canons would not have 24p in some of their modes..

The A7c lacks dials, buttons, and joystick compared to the A7III or even A6600, it does not get the UI nor full touch, it has a borderline use-less EVF, apparently really bad IBIS and still comes in at only $200 less than the A7III. The only things it has to offer which are great at the very least are the battery, excellent sensor, and the AF performance (hopefully, though there might be processing limits there too?).

Those 3 things are better or equal (AF has to be seen in real world) to the RP and they are important, but the RP has good enough IQ and spare batteries are not the end of the world, but it will be much more usable with large lenses or people with glasses and it costs half the price. Canon's bigger problem is the lack of small lenses, especially zooms.
 

Bert63

EOS RP
CR Pro
Dec 3, 2017
780
1,564
It's appeal it's that it's small except it isn't. Put a decent lens on and whatever minuscule gain it realized by gutting itself is gone. I honestly don't know who would buy this when the real deal (A73) is only a couple of hundred more...
 

amorse

EOS RP
Jan 26, 2017
704
869
www.instagram.com
It's appeal it's that it's small except it isn't. Put a decent lens on and whatever minuscule gain it realized by gutting itself is gone. I honestly don't know who would buy this when the real deal (A73) is only a couple of hundred more...
I think it all comes down to use case, and this will fit the need for some people - if I was a Sony shooter, I'd happily buy this as a second body over an a7III. If I was a Sony shooter, I'd likely be using an a7RIV with plenty of non-size conscious lenses, and would be perfectly happy to carry one of these in my bag as a backup if the a7RIV dies or is broken. Considering that I shoot really slowly and almost only on a tripod, the key things I want from a backup body are for it to have the same mount as the main camera, take the same batteries as the main camera, be as small/light as possible, and obviously cheaper is better. I'd be fine without a viewfinder/EVF and with clunky controls if the other criteria are fit properly. Not having the EVF hump makes it more pocketable in my opinion, but I'm sure that's a dealbreaker for others.

I've considered the M6II for the equivalent reasons on Canon's ecosystem, but eventually chose not to because I know I'll transition to RF soon enough and it won't fit the use case with RF lenses. I'd look at the RP for the same use, but again it isn't a perfect fit because it uses a different battery than the R5.

It's kind of a niche camera in my opinion, but I do think there's a use case out there for it.
 

privatebydesign

Garfield is back...
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,061
3,176
120
I don't know. This camera is completely overpriced for what it offers and should be rightfully squashed. If we just allow companies to do whatever they want without outcry then 1/3 of the current Canons would not have 24p in some of their modes..

The A7c lacks dials, buttons, and joystick compared to the A7III or even A6600, it does not get the UI nor full touch, it has a borderline use-less EVF, apparently really bad IBIS and still comes in at only $200 less than the A7III. The only things it has to offer which are great at the very least are the battery, excellent sensor, and the AF performance (hopefully, though there might be processing limits there too?).

Those 3 things are better or equal (AF has to be seen in real world) to the RP and they are important, but the RP has good enough IQ and spare batteries are not the end of the world, but it will be much more usable with large lenses or people with glasses and it costs half the price. Canon's bigger problem is the lack of small lenses, especially zooms.
You believe outcry equals action? I don't, I believe sales or lack of them results in a company taking action.

I also believe Sony are happy to push out a product and let their customers tell them what to improve, if they see a marketable result they will introduce a much improved MkII pretty soon, and then a MkIII if needed not long after that, but when the 'porridge is just right' they will leave well alone for quite a while. To me it is obvious Sony are testing the water with this α7c, old menu, one card slot, smooth 'grippy' material, etc etc. If there is enough interest expect a vastly improved MkII next year, if there isn't, and that will depend on sales and real data not forum outcry, then the idea/niche will be dropped.
 
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Andy Westwood

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 10, 2016
97
115
UK
Yep I agree with most of this, it’s not often Sony miss the boat or cripple a camera, but they have this time.

I was looking forward to the A7C, but the spec is dated before it even hits the selves.

Old menu system, no proper IBIS, poor ergonomics and not even a touch screen … Eh! And still big bucks!

Come on Canon! You can do better with your up and coming super FF compact surely!
 
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Surab

Olympus OM-D E-M5II
Aug 22, 2020
21
23
You believe outcry equals action? I don't, I believe sales or lack of them results in a company taking action.

I also believe Sony are happy to push out a product and let their customers tell them what to improve, if they see a marketable result they will introduce a much improved MkII pretty soon, and then a MkIII if needed not long after that, but when the 'porridge is just right' they will leave well alone for quite a while. To me it is obvious Sony are testing the water with this α7c, old menu, one card slot, smooth 'grippy' material, etc etc. If there is enough interest expect a vastly improved MkII next year, if there isn't, and that will depend on sales and real data not forum outcry, then the idea/niche will be dropped.
Well for me it does, but I'm not sure it does for everyone.

Very fair points in your bigger paragraph, but Sony is already getting feedback for the MkII. To me the A7c is meant to do push A7III and the future A7IV sales as well as leave plenty of gaps open to allow for a striking MkII.
 

tmroper

EOS 90D
Sep 22, 2016
162
56
Finally, Sony have figured out how to make a flip-out screen. And for a small form-factor camera like this, it will make a huge difference. It becomes a very useful point of contact, when needed.
 

mangobutter

EOS 90D
Dec 11, 2014
157
66
www.e46mango.com
The EOS RP is still lighter at 485 grams vs the A7C's 508 grams.

Also Sony doesn't really have a native small prime to go with it like Canon does w/ the RF 35.

Win: Canon

I like the concept though. I think Canon has a patent for a similar product. I'd love a recessed sensor with the RF 35 reworked to be a fixed lens. Hell yes.
 

blackcoffee17

EOS RP
Sep 17, 2014
462
498
Finally, Sony have figured out how to make a flip-out screen. And for a small form-factor camera like this, it will make a huge difference. It becomes a very useful point of contact, when needed.
They still not figured out how to make decent ergonomics and fully functional touch screens.
 
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tmroper

EOS 90D
Sep 22, 2016
162
56
They still not figured out how to make decent ergonomics and fully functional touch screens.
That's a good point. With my Lumix, I can hold onto the flipped-out LCD while also using its on-screen menu with my thumb. If that's not possible with the Sony (due to a bad menu system), then the usefulness of a flip-out is seriosly diminished, the way I see it.
 

slclick

Cyclist, photog, drummer & sardonic haiku writer
Dec 17, 2013
4,168
2,158
Aesthetically, it's more Fuji than Sony to me and that's ok