Stock Notice: Canon EOS 5DS Body in Stock at B&H Photo and Amazon

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
CR Pro
Aug 15, 2014
2,123
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Mandeville, LA
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Maybe I missed something. And certainly there's a lot of people in here far more knowledgable than I on the subject... but do we know what the productions figures were for the two body variations? Do we even know what the ratios were? 5DS vs 5DSR?

Let's say there were (all made up numbers for the sake of academic argument):

1000 5DS & 250 5DSR units produced.

There were 750 pre orders for each.

Ergo, there is a glut of 5DS at present but a backlog (and there obviously IS a backlog) of 5DSR.

This doesn't mean the line was a failure. It simply means Canon obviously misjudged the demand based on variation. We don't have enough information to render an informed verdict at this point. I'd be happy to eat my hat if someone can share hard numbers!

We debate the decision of Canon to yield two models the same as Nikon did, but that alone doesn't make the release a dud. It seems obvious to me based on prevalent anecdotal evidence (the backlogs) that Canon is presently ramping UP 5DSR production vs 5DS
 

kphoto99

EOS RP
Nov 7, 2012
317
1
PureClassA said:
Maybe I missed something. And certainly there's a lot of people in here far more knowledgable than I on the subject... but do we know what the productions figures were for the two body variations? Do we even know what the ratios were? 5DS vs 5DSR?

Let's say there were (all made up numbers for the sake of academic argument):

1000 5DS & 250 5DSR units produced.

There were 750 pre orders for each.

Ergo, there is a glut of 5DS at present but a backlog (and there obviously IS a backlog) of 5DSR.

This doesn't mean the line was a failure. It simply means Canon obviously misjudged the demand based on variation. We don't have enough information to render an informed verdict at this point. I'd be happy to eat my hat if someone can share hard numbers!

We debate the decision of Canon to yield two models the same as Nikon did, but that alone doesn't make the release a dud. It seems obvious to me based on prevalent anecdotal evidence (the backlogs) that Canon is presently ramping UP 5DSR production vs 5DS

I would hope that Canon had access to the pre-order numbers (the retailers placed orders with Canon based on pre-orders). I know there is a lag between production and arrival at the retailer, but there is sill same heads up that Canon had. So there should be no reason why the 5DSR is so backlogged.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
CR Pro
Aug 15, 2014
2,123
824
Mandeville, LA
Shields-Photography.com
Lots of reasons. Unless you can give me the average production time of 100 units. Then multiply that by 10 or 100 even. Canon may have assumed far larger 5DS sales (and evidence suggests that's precisely what they did) and even after getting the first 2-4 weeks of pre-orders, didn't have enough time to make up the deficit. The 5D3 has been selling even better since the drastic price drop. You can bet your ass that rig is made in the SAME factory as the 5DSR and 5DS. So if they had to ramp up 5D3 production (a model already released) to meet a spike in demand, then that would put the unexpected pre-order numbers for a 5DSR even further behind. Just a theory that happens to fit the facts. Not necessarily true, but certainly perfectly plausible

kphoto99 said:
PureClassA said:
Maybe I missed something. And certainly there's a lot of people in here far more knowledgable than I on the subject... but do we know what the productions figures were for the two body variations? Do we even know what the ratios were? 5DS vs 5DSR?

Let's say there were (all made up numbers for the sake of academic argument):

1000 5DS & 250 5DSR units produced.

There were 750 pre orders for each.

Ergo, there is a glut of 5DS at present but a backlog (and there obviously IS a backlog) of 5DSR.

This doesn't mean the line was a failure. It simply means Canon obviously misjudged the demand based on variation. We don't have enough information to render an informed verdict at this point. I'd be happy to eat my hat if someone can share hard numbers!

We debate the decision of Canon to yield two models the same as Nikon did, but that alone doesn't make the release a dud. It seems obvious to me based on prevalent anecdotal evidence (the backlogs) that Canon is presently ramping UP 5DSR production vs 5DS

I would hope that Canon had access to the pre-order numbers (the retailers placed orders with Canon based on pre-orders). I know there is a lag between production and arrival at the retailer, but there is sill same heads up that Canon had. So there should be no reason why the 5DSR is so backlogged.
 

bitm2007

EOS RP
May 20, 2013
368
7
As I thought, the cameras are not in such high demand as a new 5D MK IV would be. All three big online sellers with new cameras in stock when they are released? Canon had to come up with a high MP camera, and its undoubtedly a good one, but its not a general purpose camera, and they obviously overestimated its appeal while leaving a boatload of cash on the floor that they could have had by producing a 5D MK IV.

That's good news for the budget conscious photographer. Lower than expected demand, normally means quicker price reductions and earlier cashback (rebates) from Canon. Might get one, at a heavy discounted price, for my trip to Scotland in October after all.
 

wallstreetoneil

EOS M50
May 8, 2015
29
0
I think this is already clear, but this is what I know about my own order from a big store who know me very well as I'm a very good customer. I was the very first person to place an order for the 5DSr - when I did, there were already 5 orders for the 5DS - this was months ago the first day pre-orders were being accepted. I went by the store on Friday to ask if I could have it as soon as the store opens this morning - only to find out that I am not 1st in line but 5th (which is bs) and I heard a name of a well known local photog who is now ahead of me.

My guess is that the 5Ds is now going to be a complete zero - nada. And that every single order is likely getting converted to a 5DSr - and that is now a big, big problem because all the initial 5DS production is causing a huge problem because no one wants them.

I have seen enough pre-production images to see the moire is not going to be a real problem so their 4:1 or 5:1 guess of S>Sr is now going to be reversed = major problem.
 

flux capacitor

I'm New Here
Feb 5, 2015
23
0
wallstreetoneil said:
My guess is that the 5Ds is now going to be a complete zero - nada. And that every single order is likely getting converted to a 5DSr - and that is now a big, big problem because all the initial 5DS production is causing a huge problem because no one wants them.

Well, I have to disagree on this one.
I actually changed my order from a 5Ds R to a 5Ds. When shooting fine detailed fashion, the last thing I wan't worry about is moire. Which can even happen on unicolor Clothing with a certain fabric like swimsuits or Sportclothing.
IMHO the 5Ds R is the perfect Landscape Camera. For Studiowork and Portraitwork the 5Ds seems to be the right choice.
 

gary samples

EOS RP
Apr 15, 2013
399
0
Well I called B&H my order for the SR would not be completed until mid July so I changed it to an S model be here tomorrow I also threw in 100 MM macro L for a $200 discount I'm a happy camper I will try and post some shots as soon as I get my Len's dialed in
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
CR Pro
Aug 15, 2014
2,123
824
Mandeville, LA
Shields-Photography.com
Initially I had a 5DS on order and changed to the R. The more I investigated the less concerned I became about Moire. If a 36MP Nikon without the LPF hasn't caused great unrest, I couldn't imagine a 50MP sensor would either. There's tons of studio/portrait work being done without an LPF right now.
 

lichtmalen

EOS M6 Mark II
May 8, 2015
72
0
www.florianbieler.de
wallstreetoneil said:
My guess is that the 5Ds is now going to be a complete zero - nada.

Why would it? I'd rather have the 5Ds because I don't want to risk any more Moire than necessary. Of course the S is not as popular and is available everywhere (well, at least on your side of the ocean) whilst the R isn't, but it still has a right to exist. Now if I would only be able to get my hands on it... Canon Germany states that they were released today and are available at the pro partners, but no shop actually received them and mine doesn't know more than they should've been here already.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
CR Pro
Aug 15, 2014
2,123
824
Mandeville, LA
Shields-Photography.com
It won't. Neither will. Canon has so little R&D invested in this by comparison to other models because it's the same exact camera as a 5D3 with a few minor tweaks except for the sensor. They will sell very well for their purpose. As well as a 5D3 or 5D4? Heck no. Of course not. But they aren't intended to. Some folks are just looking at them from the wrong perspective. Now if you want to claim the 5DS will be a "zero" as compared to the 5DSR... ehhhh... maybe a bit more debatable but "zero" is still far from accurate. I do think over time the R will overtake the S in sale figures. Or some folks are just here to pee on Canon's campfire all the time....

lichtmalen said:
wallstreetoneil said:
My guess is that the 5Ds is now going to be a complete zero - nada.

Why would it? I'd rather have the 5Ds because I don't want to risk any more Moire than necessary. Of course the S is not as popular and is available everywhere (well, at least on your side of the ocean) whilst the R isn't, but it still has a right to exist. Now if I would only be able to get my hands on it... Canon Germany states that they were released today and are available at the pro partners, but no shop actually received them and mine doesn't know more than they should've been here already.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Mar 25, 2011
16,792
1,759
Canon Rumors said:
Grey market imports have become a juggernaut for sales on places like ebay.

I thought MAP pricing was a good idea when it was introduced a few years ago, but all it has done is shifted sales from large authorized resellers to unauthorized sellers. I know the idea was to help smaller retailers compete with the big ones, but I don't think that has gone as planned. The small retailers don't have the breadth and depth of products to compete with what the big stores have, and they can't compete on pricing vs ebay and other grey market sellers.

We have a small local camera store that employees photographers (Wow- A thing of the past). They cannot compete on price with B&H much less ebay. Just the same, if its a new product and I have to pay full price anyway, I order it from them and they get it very quickly for me.

We also have a larger local camera store that sells on line (Onecall.com). They will match prices, but really can't compete with B&H either. They do stock common pro gear, so I can go down and try Canon or Nikon or Sony or Fuji or most of them. The salesmen are reasonably knowledgeable, but no longer do they hire Pro photographers as they did in years past. They have been around for over 100 years, since 1908! They are switching to high end Home Theater, and provide full service deliver and setup. I used to buy cameras there, but now only occasionally buy one, preferring the small shop instead. We also have some Best Buy stores, but they are losers.
 

Dholai

EOS M6 Mark II
CR Pro
Feb 5, 2014
70
10
Per mail from B and H, my 5DsR has been shipped and will arrive tomorrow :D
 
Mt Spokane Photography said:
We have a small local camera store that employees photographers (Wow- A thing of the past). They cannot compete on price with B&H much less ebay. Just the same, if its a new product and I have to pay full price anyway, I order it from them and they get it very quickly for me.

We also have a larger local camera store that sells on line (Onecall.com). They will match prices, but really can't compete with B&H either. They do stock common pro gear, so I can go down and try Canon or Nikon or Sony or Fuji or most of them. The salesmen are reasonably knowledgeable, but no longer do they hire Pro photographers as they did in years past. They have been around for over 100 years, since 1908! They are switching to high end Home Theater, and provide full service deliver and setup. I used to buy cameras there, but now only occasionally buy one, preferring the small shop instead. We also have some Best Buy stores, but they are losers.

While I have no idea how profitable they are, my local store is doing an awesome job trying to be a strong resource for the community. Plenty of training classes, manufacturer demos, seminars, contests, and even trade old gear for credit days has been packing the store so well its hard to find an open rep. So I do think local stores can build a customer base without summarily dumping themselves on the temple of washing machines and fridges - exactly what led to the demise of electronic stores.
 

benperrin

EOS RP
Feb 10, 2012
263
1
benjaminperrinphotography.com
Just received an email to say that my 5dsr would have an eta of June 22. This is from a camera store in Australia though and I don't believe the camera is being released here till the 19th. Still, I'm one happy camper. Saved quite a few hundred dollars by purchasing through a company that buys overseas models.