Teardown: Canon EOS 5Ds

[Canon Rumors]

Roger at <a href="http://www.lensrentals.com" target="_blank">LensRentals.com</a> figured it’d be a good time to take apart the brand new Canon EOS 5Ds. He was curious as to whether or not things had changed inside the camera, or if it was identical to the EOS 5D Mark III. He also notes areas where Canon has improved some of the design.</p>
<blockquote><p>Outside of the stuff we already know about the new Canon cameras, there were not many surprises looking inside, and the few surprises we had were positive. There was Canon’s usual very clean design and layout. There were incremental improvements in the engineering, like the separated I/O system, more robust tripod mount assembly, and improved inner tapes and shields. I have a little concern about the lens release pin, but it probably will not be an issue. After all, I’m known to be paranoid.</p></blockquote>
<p>On a side note, we received our EOS 5DS and and are looking forward to shooting with it this weekend.</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/06/canon-5ds-teardown" target="_blank">Read the full article with pictures</a> | Canon EOS 5DS Body $3699: <a href="http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DS.html?kbid=64393" target="_blank">Adorama</a> | <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1119026-REG/canon_0581c002_eos_5ds_dslr_camera.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296" target="_blank">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T3ERPT8/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00T3ERPT8&linkCode=as2&tag=canorumo-20&linkId=C3LAZKJCU4IRBJUF" target="_blank">Amazon</a></strong></p>
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[1982chris911]

How is the weather sealing compared to 5d MK III ? Did it stay the same or is it worse ?

 

[dolina]

It appears to be the same and Roger wouldnt bring it out in the rain unless it is covered by a plastic bag. If the weather sealing actually worked manufacturers would extend their warranty for it.

 

[1982chris911]

It appears to be the same and Roger wouldnt bring it out in the rain unless it is covered by a plastic bag. If the weather sealing actually worked manufacturers would extend their warranty for it.

Well the 5d MKIII which I own was quite good till now ... While with the 5d MK II and 7d MK I I would be much much more careful under humid conditions

 

[douglaurent]

Been using my 5DsR for a day now and tried to test the dozen new features. The real sensation (that nobody including Canon did seem to have mentioned yet) is that it does have video autofocus as first Canon full frame camera. It seems to works with any full frame lens that has autofocus, including Sigma and Tamron products. Surprisingly as video camera the 5DsR looks a bit better than expected and also the timelapse options are welcome, while as photo camera it is a bit disappointing. Compared it with the D810, and as all Canon cameras the 5DsR pictures are significantly darker than on all Nikon cameras (while using the same lens (Otus 55) and exactly the same settings). Aside from that disadvantage, at ISO 1600 the 5DsR photos already become pretty unuasable, while the D810 works quite well until 6400. The extra amount of pixels in the Canon compared to all the D800 models is only visible through more or less extreme pixelpeeping. Right now i wished Canon would have stayed below 40MP and didnt sacrifice lowlight capabilities. It will be interesting to look into the A7RII. The outlook for the 5D4 seems to be that it will definitely have video autofocus that by then might be promoted right through Canon and give them a partly lead over the competition.

 

[privatebydesign]

Been using my 5DsR for a day now and tried to test the dozen new features. The real sensation (that nobody including Canon did seem to have mentioned yet) is that it does have video autofocus as first Canon full frame camera. It seems to works with any full frame lens that has autofocus, including Sigma and Tamron products. Surprisingly as video camera the 5DsR looks a bit better than expected and also the timelapse options are welcome, while as photo camera it is a bit disappointing. Compared it with the D810, and as all Canon cameras the 5DsR pictures are significantly darker than on all Nikon cameras (while using the same lens (Otus 55) and exactly the same settings). Aside from that disadvantage, at ISO 1600 the 5DsR photos already become pretty unuasable, while the D810 works quite well until 6400. The extra amount of pixels in the Canon compared to all the D800 models is only visible through more or less extreme pixelpeeping. Right now i wished Canon would have stayed below 40MP and didnt sacrifice lowlight capabilities. It will be interesting to look into the A7RII. The outlook for the 5D4 seems to be that it will definitely have video autofocus that by then might be promoted right through Canon and give them a partly lead over the competition.

Just downsample! Then compare the 36MP Nikon to a 36MP 5DSR file and low and behold, very similar noise.

 

[dolina]

Been using my 5DsR for a day now and tried to test the dozen new features. The real sensation (that nobody including Canon did seem to have mentioned yet) is that it does have video autofocus as first Canon full frame camera. It seems to works with any full frame lens that has autofocus, including Sigma and Tamron products.

I also noticed this on the 7D Mark II. It is nice to be able to leave the camera be and let it follow focus the face of a stationary performer on stage when he sways.

Going back to topic... anyone learn anything interesting about the 5Ds from the teardown?

 

[douglaurent]

Just downsample! Then compare the 36MP Nikon to a 36MP 5DSR file and low and behold, very similar noise.
[/quote]

Doesnt work, the 5DsR picture details between ISO 1600 and 6400 already look too destroyed. 50MP compared to 36MP also sounds more than it feels like in reality. 7360 x 4912 pixels already is a lot.

 

[douglaurent]

I also noticed this on the 7D Mark II. It is nice to be able to leave the camera be and let it follow focus the face of a stationary performer on stage when he sways.

Now having the very first video autofocus on full frame is something really newsworthy. It seems like Canon wants to avoid in any way that any Video guy does buy these 5Ds products when they don't even mention it, so they have to jump on the 5D4 or C100/C300II.

 

[privatebydesign]

Just downsample! Then compare the 36MP Nikon to a 36MP 5DSR file and low and behold, very similar noise.

Doesnt work, the 5DsR picture details between ISO 1600 and 6400 already look too destroyed. 50MP compared to 36MP also sounds more than it feels like in reality. 7360 x 4912 pixels already is a lot.
[/quote]

The downsampled comparisons I have seen all look very very close, so without images to back up your claim, I don't believe you.

Look here at 4:45 to see this exact scenario, 6,400iso downsampled to 36MP, his opinion is that the 5DSR is "a noticeable but slight upgrade from the D810 even when used with a modest zoom lens".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq3ISUHsfsQ

There are 385 MB of RAW files downloadable at that link too.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Been using my 5DsR for a day now and tried to test the dozen new features. The real sensation (that nobody including Canon did seem to have mentioned yet) is that it does have video autofocus as first Canon full frame camera. It seems to works with any full frame lens that has autofocus, including Sigma and Tamron products.

No one else has mentioned continuous autofocus during video. Other Canon FF cameras will only autofocus during video when you push the AF button, but not continuous AF.

Can you link to a video showing AF following a subject when you point the camera at items at different distances?

The 70D has DPAF, which lets the camera AF during video, but it also has limitations.

 

[douglaurent]

Been using my 5DsR for a day now and tried to test the dozen new features. The real sensation (that nobody including Canon did seem to have mentioned yet) is that it does have video autofocus as first Canon full frame camera. It seems to works with any full frame lens that has autofocus, including Sigma and Tamron products.

No one else has mentioned continuous autofocus during video. Other Canon FF cameras will only autofocus during video when you push the AF button, but not continuous AF.

Can you link to a video showing AF following a subject when you point the camera at items at different distances?

The 70D has DPAF, which lets the camera AF during video, but it also has limitations.

I have only filmed in private rooms right now, but it works. Only tested a selection of lenses like the 11-24, Tamron 24-70, Sigma 24/1.4 etc, but they all magically have been continously autofocusing without touching anything. You have to be in video mode of course. In menu point #4 "movie servo AF" needs to be set to "enable" and "AF method" needs to be set to "Face + Tracking" and the lens of course needs to have AF on. Unfortunately then it's not possible anymore to zoom in (which is 6x and 16x instead of 5x and 10x now). It might not autofocus as fast as a C100 II with STM lenses, it feels a bit more like when the 650D was new and the first STM lenses came out.

 

[benperrin]

Well the 5d MKIII which I own was quite good till now ... While with the 5d MK II and 7d MK I I would be much much more careful under humid conditions

Is the 5ds/mkIII that much better. I've taken my mkII out in the rain many times with no issues.

 

[Loswr]

No one else has mentioned continuous autofocus during video.

Page 313 of the manual mentions it.

 

[douglaurent]

Just downsample! Then compare the 36MP Nikon to a 36MP 5DSR file and low and behold, very similar noise.

Doesnt work, the 5DsR picture details between ISO 1600 and 6400 already look too destroyed. 50MP compared to 36MP also sounds more than it feels like in reality. 7360 x 4912 pixels already is a lot.

The downsampled comparisons I have seen all look very very close, so without images to back up your claim, I don't believe you.

Look here at 4:45 to see this exact scenario, 6,400iso downsampled to 36MP, his opinion is that the 5DSR is "a noticeable but slight upgrade from the D810 even when used with a modest zoom lens".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq3ISUHsfsQ

There are 385 MB of RAW files downloadable at that link too.
[/quote]

I wish the 5DsR would beat the D810 on high ISO, as i have spent 3700 Euros on the 5DsR and don't necessarily want to upgrade my D800E to a D810. Aside from the attached picture that shows a comparison with both cameras put to the exact same settings (ISO 6400) with the exact same lens etc i can't help much further right now, as of course there are 100 factors in the whole developing process that can influence the results. From further tests my opinion also is that the D810 as well is still too noisy and not that significantly less noisy than the D800 or D810. After checking out several Sony products of the last 18 months i think that right now nobody has real wonder sensors yet, but in camera noise reduction, sharpening etc has been improved by such manufacturers to make the results look improved at first sight. For example, until ISO 25600 the A7S does not deliver better lowlight results than the 1DC, Sony just knew better how to cheat with internal noise reduction algorythms you can't switch off in camera. Compared on an equal basis, after post processing the A7S doesnt win.

 

[privatebydesign]

I don't believe the 5DSR image is downsampled in that comparison.

 

[1982chris911]

Well the 5d MKIII which I own was quite good till now ... While with the 5d MK II and 7d MK I I would be much much more careful under humid conditions

Is the 5ds/mkIII that much better. I've taken my mkII out in the rain many times with no issues.

Well my 5d MKII died on the second day I was in Singapore (of a four weeks trip to NZ and Australia)so I had to use the 7D all the time. And with some friends of mine they told me the same about their 5D MKIIs as well as the canon Rep here on the introduction event for the 5DsR ... all said that to their experience the 5D MK II has quite some issues with humid conditions, while that was more or less solved for the 5D MK III and 7D MK II ... I am just a bit confused as they say in the tear down the camera is a "studio camera" so that is why I am asking if they stepped a step down again on the weather sealing compared to the MK III ...

 

[benperrin]

Well my 5d MKII died on the second day I was in Singapore (of a four weeks trip to NZ and Australia)so I had to use the 7D all the time. And with some friends of mine they told me the same about their 5D MKIIs as well as the canon Rep here on the introduction event for the 5DsR ... all said that to their experience the 5D MK II has quite some issues with humid conditions, while that was more or less solved for the 5D MK III and 7D MK II ... I am just a bit confused as they say in the tear down the camera is a "studio camera" so that is why I am asking if they stepped a step down again on the weather sealing compared to the MK III ...

Well that's actually good to hear then. Considering that I've never had trouble with my mkII the 5dsr should give me no troubles either. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[scyrene]

The thing that struck me is the subtle improvements inside, that nobody talks about, but which seem considered responses to deficiencies in previous models (the arrangement of circuit boards, the stronger tripod mount etc). They didn't need to do that, they won't sell more because of it, but they want to make each camera better than the ones that went before. Making products that break less easily and which are easier to repair - hardly the attitude of a cynical company that just wants to make more money imho.

 

[douglaurent]

I don't believe the 5DSR image is downsampled in that comparison.

The picture of the 5DsR is just app 15% wider and higher than the D810. Downsampling 50 to 36MP will not have the same effect as downsampling 36 to 8MP. I also don't find it that astonishing that more pixels mean more noise. Canon did not have any experience with a high megapixel camera yet and did a good job on the 5Ds, but it's not a spectacular achievement compared to Nikon or Sony. Not only in video functions you can feel that Canon intentionally limits functions to hold back future options. For example you don't need an external timelapse timer anymore, but the internal menu count has only two digits - so you can either shoot "00" for an endless amount of photos until the camera dies or you stop it personally, or you can shoot 01-99 pics. Who needs that for a timelapse and how easy would it have been to implement functions like on the GH4, where of course you can decide about a 4-digit amount of pics and start/stop times of your timelapse? Canon didnt seem to realize that their pro users are not stupid to recognize such stupid limitations. I hope they can fix more of such issues in a software update.