Teardown: The Canon EOS R5 gets an autopsy

[Bert63]

The author of the article plans to go to court if Canon doesn't do a recall.

He seems to be a bit of a little drama princess.

" So it is very confusing to me why it is on shop shelves marketed as a professional C300 III B-cam! "

I never heard/read anything of the sort.

 

[lbeck]

Imagine when people start using the R5 to take real pictures and video instead of stupid half baked tests with YouTube analysis for the masses.

That'll be the day ...

 

[flip314]

There is definitely no venting for heat to escape

If there was any venting, the camera would get eviscerated for its lack of weather-proofing...

 

[mppix]

I’m fine with the cutoffs. This isn’t a cinema body. It isn’t an A-Cam or B-Cam body. This is for specialty situations, or for those of us that mix a little video with photo work. I prefer Canon protecting the longevity and reliability of the camera and sensor. I like knowing that this will be the same on every job.

Poor/mediocre cooling certainly does not promote longvity.

 

[TAF]

That was fascinating. My guess is that Mod 2 will contain an aluminum plate that sticks through the back under the LCD (weather sealed, of course), with conductive tape to the heat sink at the next layer. That should get more of the internal heat out. You'll just have to leave the LCD deployed to permit better airflow.

Then Canon can come out with the CFcooler(R) Card for the second slot. And actively cooled card that chills the connector to assist in heat removal, as well as cooling the card mounting area. With a new card door so the heat sink can stick out into free air. With a gasket, of course.

After all, no one needs two cards, but having the second slot will be convenient place for the accessory cooling adapter (Canon, $499, in stock in 2022).

 

[sanj]

So many knowledgeable people in this forum. Nice! I learn from you all.

 

[marathonman]

I can't get through a single thing from EOSHD. That guy is so full of ego and states his opinions as facts without sufficient logic or substantiation. Having a following doesn't make someone right. He typically makes emotional stabs at anyone in his forum who dares to disagree with him, however civilly they are discussing a matter.

Certain people always focus on the negative and are always victims no matter how much logic is applied.

Well said.
I can't quite imagine living life in as negative a frame of mind and as permanently indignant as Mr Reid is. Really.
It feels like he believes Canon owe him something because he named his 3rd rate blog after them

What a time to be alive, with so many great options. If you can't work around the strengths and weaknesses of the R5, then there are many other great options to choose from. And yes, they too have pros and cons that need to be considered.

 

[cornieleous]

Thermal pads(once Canon seems to be using(compared to Hitachi HM03 and other graphite pads) are not a good medium to transfer heat, for low power components like RAM, VRM they are fine for higher power components they literally are $hit compared to decent thermal paste.

Notice the massive soldermask pads on the circuit board surrounding the Digic? That is likely a copper fill . Do you have information about the processor thermals that we don't? Unless you presume to be performing a full thermal analysis in 3D and about to deliver your detailed conclusions, comparison to your computer processor are useless. All this armchair speculation will go nowhere.

 

[mppix]

He seems to be a bit of a little drama princess.

" So it is very confusing to me why it is on shop shelves marketed as a professional C300 III B-cam! "

I never heard/read anything of the sort.

Canon UK on EOS R5: "shoots comfortably on high-end production sets - ideal partner to C300 Mark III" - Why overheating is unintentional - EOSHD.com - Filmmaking Gear and Camera Reviews

Back in April, Canon announced the video specs of the EOS R5 with much hubris. The camera was indeed intended to shoot reliably in 8K and 4K alongside Cinema EOS cameras… According to Canon themselves. So I don’t think Canon intended the EOS R5 overheating to be a purposeful cripple hammer. I...

www.eoshd.com

 

[Bert63]

Canon UK on EOS R5: "shoots comfortably on high-end production sets - ideal partner to C300 Mark III" - Why overheating is unintentional - EOSHD.com - Filmmaking Gear and Camera Reviews

Back in April, Canon announced the video specs of the EOS R5 with much hubris. The camera was indeed intended to shoot reliably in 8K and 4K alongside Cinema EOS cameras… According to Canon themselves. So I don’t think Canon intended the EOS R5 overheating to be a purposeful cripple hammer. I...

www.eoshd.com

Never saw the claim until now, and he's still a drama queen. (he got promoted after I read that article)...

" It makes a lot more sense to use the Panasonic S1H or Sony A7S III instead. "

Then by all means, have at it. While you pursue your lawsuit.

 

[mppix]

Never saw the claim until now, and he's still a drama queen. (he got promoted after I read that article)...

" It makes a lot more sense to use the Panasonic S1H or Sony A7S III instead. "

Then by all means, have at it. While you pursue your lawsuit.

Yes, he is a dramaqueen and I dont see a HW recall or lawsuit happening.
However, I also think Canon underengineered the thermals for whatever reason (partially confirmed by the teardown) and dropped the ball when they led the announcement with video specs.
Just my 2c.

 

[NorskHest]

I can't get through a single thing from EOSHD. That guy is so full of ego and states his opinions as facts without sufficient logic or substantiation. Having a following doesn't make someone right. He typically makes emotional stabs at anyone in his forum who dares to disagree with him, however civilly they are discussing a matter.

As for making assumptions on the teardown and materials of R5? Are any of these talking heads or random people with angry opinions (because they can't buy a cinema camera for $4000) actually electronics engineers or have ever done a thermal analysis? If so, I expect more rigor than they are presenting. I have plenty of knowledge in this area and will leave it at that, but I'm not here making speculations despite my knowledge. Unless I know the power dissipation of all components in all modes, the thermal resistivity in each material, and run a 3D thermal analysis myself, I know better than to guess. There is no point acting like we know what the problem fully is. Sure, testing might yield some results, but people acting like Canon are idiots are being unfair....The assumption that armchair engineering is better than a dedicated team that cares about the product at Canon is ridiculous.

Regarding calling for legal action because people cannot read a spec sheet? Good luck in court with that weak argument and your 'righteous' anger. Pretty hard to make a legal case when you were told prior to purchase there are limits with the camera video modes, and that other camera activity could also downgrade the recording time.

Yes, if all you care about is a dedicated video camera that does all this incredible footage in a tiny MILC body, it is not for you, grab a Sony and enjoy life and 12MP stills. You are also unrealistic for thinking a full frame high MP camera with IBIS in a weather sealed body would NOT have some heat issues doing all that. As the mirrorless 5D5 this camera delivers incredible stills and light duty video. I'm having a blast with it and already producing great images.

Certain people always focus on the negative and are always victims no matter how much logic is applied.

Andrew whines a lot, he thinks he has done wonders for the film world. Maybe back in the day when people were hacking 5d's his blog was relevant but now he is just a human that bitches. Yes I am critical of canon but I also will not being buying canons mirrorless bodies. They will not work for me or probably for humans that do work similiar to what I do so people like me use 1d's and cinema bodies and or a7's. Back to your point of Andrew always whining, I wonder if he actually films or captures anything worth a shit? Yes it is good to have people to go after companies and keep them honest but his R5 bitching is like a breakup gone waaaaay bad, he is soooooooo butt hurt

 

[Mike9129]

Someone get LTT on this so he can watercool it

 

[cornieleous]

Complete and likely useless speculation here, but:

I am fairly sure CFExpress uses SERDES 8b10b or 128b/130b encoding for AC line balancing. On some SERDES interfaces, idle characters must flow for skew sync and clock recovery which in this case would essentially be running the card when doing nothing. The data rate never changes even when idle and channel bonded. Perhaps there is a reason to stay in this idle mode at all times rather than disable interfaces to the cards completely. Also once hot, the cards are not going to cool just sitting there in a little toaster slot. Anyone an expert at the latest CFExpress application and physical layer? That would be actually a useful discussion since we know the cards in simple tests are part of the issue. In the end, even this will be speculating and just about useless compared to knowing the full details of the engineering compromises Canon was faced with.

A lot of Nikon users on various retailer reviews stated their CFE cards getting HOT in readers even with small transfers. I think CFE may have been necessary for the data rates needed, but a bad choice. Not sure if the SD slot is showing the same issues when doing 4K60 IPB. Mine overheated predictably, but did not seem to warm until placed in the sun and ran at high rate video. I don't even have CFE, readers or GPUs enough for 8K yet. 4K60 will be plenty for my needs. In most cases if I need slow mo, it doesn't have to be 4K or full frame, and I have several other products for that.

I'm fairly confident Canon can improve this situation, even more confident it was not deliberate (deliberate is a 30 minute recording limit). In the meantime, it is already a great camera for it's intended use, and the best hybrid on the market.

 

[cornieleous]

Andrew whines a lot, he thinks he has done wonders for the film world. Maybe back in the day when people were hacking 5d's his blog was relevant but now he is just a human that bitches. Yes I am critical of canon but I also will not being buying canons mirrorless bodies. They will not work for me or probably for humans that do work similiar to what I do so people like me use 1d's and cinema bodies and or a7's. Back to your point of Andrew always whining, I wonder if he actually films or captures anything worth a shit? Yes it is good to have people to go after companies and keep them honest but his R5 bitching is like a breakup gone waaaaay bad, he is soooooooo butt hurt

Yep and even despite the attitude I am willing to listen if he does produce rigorous results, but right now it seems vindictive and speculative.

I am totally with everyone frustrated that there is not yet a perfect hybrid, and even with those who think Canon could have put a smarter tone on the advertising, but they never really misled anyone, marketing is always fluff designed to make you feel like the product will make you a better person or artist. The fact that spec sheets and wording were out about the real capabilities prior to purchase tells me people had enough info to realize this is not a reliable video workhorse. Although, when you look at memory card price and an Atomos is cheaper, with better codecs and a monitor, seems that could fix the problem for many who just want the HQ4K modes. Maybe Canon will have a hardware or firmware or both improvement, but the situation is already vastly better for the camera in all uses that when this controversy first started.

 

[DBounce]

I’m fine with the cutoffs. This isn’t a cinema body. It isn’t an A-Cam or B-Cam body. This is for specialty situations, or for those of us that mix a little video with photo work. I prefer Canon protecting the longevity and reliability of the camera and sensor. I like knowing that this will be the same on every job.

Do you own the R5?

 

[DBounce]

Speaking from the comfort of my armchair, I can say it’s clearly defective if just scrolling through menus can cause a device to overheat and shut down. Is there any product outside of this where anyone can site this as acceptable behavior? And if no, why is it acceptable here?

 

[koch1948]

As an EOS 5D Mark IV replacement, I assumed the the EOS R5 would be approximately the same physical size as the EOS 5D Mark IV. However, for some reason Canon engineers chose to make this new camera body more compact. It seems like a larger body would have allowed space for additional heat mitigation design.

 

[SteveC]

Speaking from the comfort of my armchair, I can say it’s clearly defective if just scrolling through menus can cause a device to overheat and shut down. Is there any product outside of this where anyone can site this as acceptable behavior? And if no, why is it acceptable here?

I don't think it's doing that though--It's locking you out of high end video, perhaps, but it's hardly turning into a brick.

 

[nchoh]

Thermal pads(once Canon seems to be using(compared to Hitachi HM03 and other graphite pads) are not a good medium to transfer heat, for low power components like RAM, VRM they are fine for higher power components they literally are $hit compared to decent thermal paste.

And where would the thermal paste transfer the heat to??? It basically boils down to... if you don't or can't vent the camera, then you it doesn't matter how much or how good your thermal paste is.