The 5D Mark III Fix

[steven63]

I've been around long enough to remember the 1dmIII focus issues. As I recall very few if any, photographers would have been affected by that. Yet, it became an issue and trying to sell the camera required that you list the serial # to show whether or not it was an affected unit.

Now we have this.

I have little doubt the camera will perform flawlessly with the tape. And I have less doubt anybody would have ever been affected by the issue had it never been discovered. However, I 100% certain Canon will NOT incorporate the tape as a permanent solution and keep it in the next generation camera.

It is an engineering design flaw. Period. Deny that would you?

The problem here is, I KNOW about the tape. Had I never known about the tape I wouldn't care. But now I KNOW. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. And I am not interested in plunking down $3500 for a piece of equipment with a design flaw fixed by tape. Thank you very much.

I think your expectation is not inline with the price you are paying. Although I get your point that you want great engineering for the product for $3500, you are expecting perfect engineering beyond the expected use of the product. To achieve that, you won't be paying $3500 but more like $7000 (or beyond) to have all the test cases, even situation the camera isn't intend to do like taking pictures with the lens cap on, addressed.

What is next? Do we need a solution for taking pictures of the sun without filters? Or does it work in zero vacuum environment? Do we reasonably expect the product to perform outside of the specification?

I have to disagree. $3500 for a camera is a lot of money. And correct me if I am wrong, but did the 5dmii have a light leak issue? That camera cost less when it was introduced.

I do agree with you on the point that our expectations, in some cases, are beyond the norm. BUT, that is the way of the consumer world and competition allows such high expectations: If Canon doesn't build it better someone else will, and eventually Canon with either have to raise its standards or go out of business.

Again, I think the original issue is small. I think the fix is appalling (as a consumer). I also think my expectations are high - but it's my money and I can be that way. I don't like somebody (engineer or otherwise) telling me to get over it/get passed it. Sorry, I'd rather have the company rise to the expectation of the customer and make the product worth the money they are asking for it.

In the case of the 5dmiii, I'll wait until either they resolve the tape issue (I see it as a temporary solution) and engineer the product so it doesn't require tape to keep light out, or I'll look elsewhere. It really is that simple for me.

 

[Razor2012]

I'm just curious now. Let's say the 'black tape' was always there, and in a few instances the tape was left out. Now would people still look at the tape as being 'cheap' or take it as just being missed in the assembly line and think nothing of it?

 

[Invertalon]

Ya know I'm getting a bit fed up with all the "engineers" touting that this fix is standard throughout the electronics industry and that we, as consumers, should just deal with it. Well to you I say "stick it where the sun doesn't shine."

Yes I understand you have spent a lot of money and time and sweat on your education and I'm just a poor blue-collar shmuck. I know you have a pretty plaque on the wall that 'says' you know what you are doing. You might even have a sticker on your drivers license to help you convince the cops you are smart. So what.

Don't come on here and try to convince us mere mortals that this is sufficient and 'don't open your computers' because there is tape all inside it. You know what? I have opened my computer...I build my own computers and THERE ISN'T A STITCH OF TAPE ANYWHERE INSIDE IT. Not one small piece.

What you guys are trying to do is, convince the consumer that your way of doing things is sufficient and that our wee-bit of knowlege on the matter is laughable. Shall we revisit your way of doing things? 1. Do it cheaply. 2. Do is sufficiently 3. Do it 'just enough' to make it work. 4. Hope the customer doesn't find out that your company charges a premium for such a mickey mouse fix. 5. Collect a paycheck and straighten the plaque on the wall.

Well I got news for you guys. It's the consumer that decides whether it's good enough. WE decide with our pocketbooks. YOU get to go redesign it if WE tell you it isn't.

I work with engineers everyday. Not in the electronics field, but the manufacturing field. And I'm here to tell you, you guys F@#* stuff up more than you help. Constant rework and on the fly fixes by the guy without the degree while the guy with the degree looks down smugly over his glasses and his CATIA program; never actually putting things together.

Tape. That's the fix for a $3500.00 camera light leak issue. Personally I'm disgusted and as consumers we shouldn't have to settle for it.

They couldn't design it correctly to begin with, so they hot patched it. And you engineer types claim we should be thrilled.

Just one question: If you engineer types are so smart why the heck does the camera need to be fixed with tape to correct how it was engineered?

U MAD BRO?

Wow, somebody is extremely bitter about something... Having worked on the largest aluminum forging presses in the world to working on military and commercial airfoils all the way to high precision medical CT, MRI and PET equipment, you would be surprised how much stuff gets "overlooked" and requires simple repairs you will never see. You are complaining about some tape in a camera to simply act as a light shield? Seriously?

Get over yourself.

 

[steven63]

Ya know I'm getting a bit fed up with all the "engineers" touting that this fix is standard throughout the electronics industry and that we, as consumers, should just deal with it. Well to you I say "stick it where the sun doesn't shine."

Yes I understand you have spent a lot of money and time and sweat on your education and I'm just a poor blue-collar shmuck. I know you have a pretty plaque on the wall that 'says' you know what you are doing. You might even have a sticker on your drivers license to help you convince the cops you are smart. So what.

Don't come on here and try to convince us mere mortals that this is sufficient and 'don't open your computers' because there is tape all inside it. You know what? I have opened my computer...I build my own computers and THERE ISN'T A STITCH OF TAPE ANYWHERE INSIDE IT. Not one small piece.

What you guys are trying to do is, convince the consumer that your way of doing things is sufficient and that our wee-bit of knowlege on the matter is laughable. Shall we revisit your way of doing things? 1. Do it cheaply. 2. Do is sufficiently 3. Do it 'just enough' to make it work. 4. Hope the customer doesn't find out that your company charges a premium for such a mickey mouse fix. 5. Collect a paycheck and straighten the plaque on the wall.

Well I got news for you guys. It's the consumer that decides whether it's good enough. WE decide with our pocketbooks. YOU get to go redesign it if WE tell you it isn't.

I work with engineers everyday. Not in the electronics field, but the manufacturing field. And I'm here to tell you, you guys F@#* stuff up more than you help. Constant rework and on the fly fixes by the guy without the degree while the guy with the degree looks down smugly over his glasses and his CATIA program; never actually putting things together.

Tape. That's the fix for a $3500.00 camera light leak issue. Personally I'm disgusted and as consumers we shouldn't have to settle for it.

They couldn't design it correctly to begin with, so they hot patched it. And you engineer types claim we should be thrilled.

Just one question: If you engineer types are so smart why the heck does the camera need to be fixed with tape to correct how it was engineered?

U MAD BRO?

Wow, somebody is extremely bitter about something... Having worked on the largest aluminum forging presses in the world to working on military and commercial airfoils all the way to high precision medical CT, MRI and PET equipment, you would be surprised how much stuff gets "overlooked" and requires simple repairs you will never see. You are complaining about some tape in a camera to simply act as a light shield? Seriously?

Get over yourself.

Why is it everyone who thinks they are somebody has to start out by listing their credentials? Got an e-peen issue?

I am, at the very least, fed up with people who consider themselves 'experts' in the matter, espousing their displeasure with anyone else who finds the issue to be a substandard solution. Especially when it's my dollars that they are attempting to win. They can go jump off a cliff.

You? Well you can put your headphones back on and log onto WoW and type 'U MAD BRO' like all the other 12 year olds, to your hearts content.

 

[llcanon]

In the case of the 5dmiii, I'll wait until either they resolve the tape issue (I see it as a temporary solution) and engineer the product so it doesn't require tape to keep light out, or I'll look elsewhere. It really is that simple for me.

I don't think you will ever be able to find out what's in your camera unless you open it up. Canon may use something else later as the "fix" (probably even cheaper) but I don't think they will tell you. And I doubt our wonderful LensRental guys would open up one for each batch of 5D3's received from Canon just to find out what the fix is. So your only choice to look elsewhere - maybe D800??

Poor Canon.

 

[thepancakeman]

Canon should use tape to fix the real problem here...

Now the engineer that can design and patent THAT fix will be a wealthy individual!

 

[bp]

Steven, good god - sell all you gear and buy a nikon. Just don't EVER open it up because they use the same kind of shielding in several places as well. This was already pointed out. Great, you build computers, congrats - do you frequently take apart laptops? Apparently not. I have ZERO credentials to spout, I'm not an engineer, but I am a dumb tinkerer, and this is not surprising to me in the least. I do, however, own a 5D Mark III, and I'm not in the least bit bothered by this fix. I DID shell out $3500. According to your signature, you don't even own a 5d3, so what the hell are you so worked up about?

 

[thepancakeman]

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

Pretty sure if that were true there would be a lot more blissful people out there. :

 

[shockwave1111]

I've been around long enough to remember the 1dmIII focus issues. As I recall very few if any, photographers would have been affected by that. Yet, it became an issue and trying to sell the camera required that you list the serial # to show whether or not it was an affected unit.

Now we have this.

I have little doubt the camera will perform flawlessly with the tape. And I have less doubt anybody would have ever been affected by the issue had it never been discovered. However, I 100% certain Canon will NOT incorporate the tape as a permanent solution and keep it in the next generation camera.

It is an engineering design flaw. Period. Deny that would you?

The problem here is, I KNOW about the tape. Had I never known about the tape I wouldn't care. But now I KNOW. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. And I am not interested in plunking down $3500 for a piece of equipment with a design flaw fixed by tape. Thank you very much.

I think your expectation is not inline with the price you are paying. Although I get your point that you want great engineering for the product for $3500, you are expecting perfect engineering beyond the expected use of the product. To achieve that, you won't be paying $3500 but more like $7000 (or beyond) to have all the test cases, even situation the camera isn't intend to do like taking pictures with the lens cap on, addressed.

What is next? Do we need a solution for taking pictures of the sun without filters? Or does it work in zero vacuum environment? Do we reasonably expect the product to perform outside of the specification?

I have to disagree. $3500 for a camera is a lot of money. And correct me if I am wrong, but did the 5dmii have a light leak issue? That camera cost less when it was introduced.

I do agree with you on the point that our expectations, in some cases, are beyond the norm. BUT, that is the way of the consumer world and competition allows such high expectations: If Canon doesn't build it better someone else will, and eventually Canon with either have to raise its standards or go out of business.

Again, I think the original issue is small. I think the fix is appalling (as a consumer). I also think my expectations are high - but it's my money and I can be that way. I don't like somebody (engineer or otherwise) telling me to get over it/get passed it. Sorry, I'd rather have the company rise to the expectation of the customer and make the product worth the money they are asking for it.

In the case of the 5dmiii, I'll wait until either they resolve the tape issue (I see it as a temporary solution) and engineer the product so it doesn't require tape to keep light out, or I'll look elsewhere. It really is that simple for me.

So the question should be if the product is worth the money they are asking for. I guess you can also think of it this way. If you can get the D4 or 1DX for $3500, do you think that is cheap? If you get the D4 with a tape fix, is it unacceptable because you paid $3500 (which is a lot of money for a camera)?

I think most people will take the D4/1DX with the tape because the product is worth more then what they are pay for even with the tape solution. Your issue is only a relative because you think a high price product should be free of any significant and insignificant flaws. But for the price point of the 5DIII, it should be reasonable.

 

[hhelmbold]

I am wondering if the risk of opening up the camera and affecting the original weather sealing is worth it, for a problem which in truth doesn't alter exposure on 99.99% of the images I am ever likely to take.

I have to agree with this... there is just something "different" about a brand new camera once it is opened up for surgery and in this case, cosmetic surgery. The issue is a result of someone trying to find fault with a perfect camera.

 

[Loswr]

The problem here is, I KNOW about the tape. Had I never known about the tape I wouldn't care. But now I KNOW. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. And I am not interested in plunking down $3500 for a piece of equipment with a design flaw fixed by tape. Thank you very much.

But if you didn't know, then you'd happily plunk down your cash? Interesting. I wonder how many other expensive products you've bought that have some kludgy fix in them? My guess is you've got a few of them.

According to your signature, you don't even own a 5d3, so what the hell are you so worked up about?

And that's the bulk of the problem, right there. People bitching about something in which they have no stake. How many people now, like steven63, won't buy the 5DIII becuase of 'tape-gate'? Of those, I'd wager that >99% of them weren't going to buy one anyway.

 

[steven63]

In the case of the 5dmiii, I'll wait until either they resolve the tape issue (I see it as a temporary solution) and engineer the product so it doesn't require tape to keep light out, or I'll look elsewhere. It really is that simple for me.

I don't think you will ever be able to find out what's in your camera unless you open it up. Canon may use something else later as the "fix" (probably even cheaper) but I don't think they will tell you. And I doubt our wonderful LensRental guys would open up one for each batch of 5D3's received from Canon just to find out what the fix is. So your only choice to look elsewhere - maybe D800??

Poor Canon.

This is exactly my point. As I said in an earlier post 'ignorance is bliss.' Had I never known or seen the fix the world would be fine. But I saw it. And I don't like it. What's so bad about that? Everyone on here seems to think that because I have an opionion different than theirs, and I outlined WHY I have that opinion, somehow I should be pounced on.

In my view, Canon has a credibility issue. You may not agree with that. Fine. Spend your money the way you want, let me spend mine the way I want. Fair enough?

 

[steven63]

Steven, good god - sell all you gear and buy a nikon. Just don't EVER open it up because they use the same kind of shielding in several places as well. This was already pointed out. Great, you build computers, congrats - do you frequently take apart laptops? Apparently not. I have ZERO credentials to spout, I'm not an engineer, but I am a dumb tinkerer, and this is not surprising to me in the least. I do, however, own a 5D Mark III, and I'm not in the least bit bothered by this fix. I DID shell out $3500. According to your signature, you don't even own a 5d3, so what the hell are you so worked up about?

Apparently you are bothered by someone who has a difference of opinion abou the fix than I do. You don't see me getting defensive, do you? So why are you? Are you a Canon Rep? Jeez I have an opinion and that opinion happens to not jive with your opinion. No, I don't own a 5d3 and no I won't be buying one for the reasons I outlined. I know there are some Canon FanBoys on this site, but they should get used to the idea that other people aren't as easily parted with their money.

Again....AGAIN....had I never seen the fix I wouldn't have cared. But I saw it and I don't like it. Simple stuff, really.

 

[steven63]

I've been around long enough to remember the 1dmIII focus issues. As I recall very few if any, photographers would have been affected by that. Yet, it became an issue and trying to sell the camera required that you list the serial # to show whether or not it was an affected unit.

Now we have this.

I have little doubt the camera will perform flawlessly with the tape. And I have less doubt anybody would have ever been affected by the issue had it never been discovered. However, I 100% certain Canon will NOT incorporate the tape as a permanent solution and keep it in the next generation camera.

It is an engineering design flaw. Period. Deny that would you?

The problem here is, I KNOW about the tape. Had I never known about the tape I wouldn't care. But now I KNOW. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. And I am not interested in plunking down $3500 for a piece of equipment with a design flaw fixed by tape. Thank you very much.

I think your expectation is not inline with the price you are paying. Although I get your point that you want great engineering for the product for $3500, you are expecting perfect engineering beyond the expected use of the product. To achieve that, you won't be paying $3500 but more like $7000 (or beyond) to have all the test cases, even situation the camera isn't intend to do like taking pictures with the lens cap on, addressed.

What is next? Do we need a solution for taking pictures of the sun without filters? Or does it work in zero vacuum environment? Do we reasonably expect the product to perform outside of the specification?

I have to disagree. $3500 for a camera is a lot of money. And correct me if I am wrong, but did the 5dmii have a light leak issue? That camera cost less when it was introduced.

I do agree with you on the point that our expectations, in some cases, are beyond the norm. BUT, that is the way of the consumer world and competition allows such high expectations: If Canon doesn't build it better someone else will, and eventually Canon with either have to raise its standards or go out of business.

Again, I think the original issue is small. I think the fix is appalling (as a consumer). I also think my expectations are high - but it's my money and I can be that way. I don't like somebody (engineer or otherwise) telling me to get over it/get passed it. Sorry, I'd rather have the company rise to the expectation of the customer and make the product worth the money they are asking for it.

In the case of the 5dmiii, I'll wait until either they resolve the tape issue (I see it as a temporary solution) and engineer the product so it doesn't require tape to keep light out, or I'll look elsewhere. It really is that simple for me.

So the question should be if the product is worth the money they are asking for. I guess you can also think of it this way. If you can get the D4 or 1DX for $3500, do you think that is cheap? If you get the D4 with a tape fix, is it unacceptable because you paid $3500 (which is a lot of money for a camera)?

I think most people will take the D4/1DX with the tape because the product is worth more then what they are pay for even with the tape solution. Your issue is only a relative because you think a high price product should be free of any significant and insignificant flaws. But for the price point of the 5DIII, it should be reasonable.

I can't argue anything you said. For me, it really comes down to perception and value. I thought the 5d3 was overpriced already and now for this issue to raise it's ugly head AND for me to know the fix is something I find deplorable I won't be buying. Really simple stuff but some people are taking it way out of context. All I was trying to do is outline my reasoning for my thoughts, which are really real-life experiences with engineers, and apparently there are a few on this site that take exception to an opinionated camera buyer.

That's fine. I see them with the issue not me.

 

[hhelmbold]

The problem here is, I KNOW about the tape. Had I never known about the tape I wouldn't care. But now I KNOW. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. And I am not interested in plunking down $3500 for a piece of equipment with a design flaw fixed by tape. Thank you very much.

Tape is used EVERYWHERE and the only ignorance is turning a blind eye to see that it is the solution. MacBook Pro's use tape to keep cables and connectors in place. (sorry - hope you're not using a MacBook steven63)

The point is that the camera isn't FIXED by tape, it is IMPROVED. People bought the camera and realized that it doesn't take AMAZING pictures all by itself and they still had to do it manually, so they were hoping for a quick and easy refund, but Canon taped that hole closed and now they're upset

 

[steven63]

The problem here is, I KNOW about the tape. Had I never known about the tape I wouldn't care. But now I KNOW. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. And I am not interested in plunking down $3500 for a piece of equipment with a design flaw fixed by tape. Thank you very much.

But if you didn't know, then you'd happily plunk down your cash? Interesting. I wonder how many other expensive products you've bought that have some kludgy fix in them? My guess is you've got a few of them.

According to your signature, you don't even own a 5d3, so what the hell are you so worked up about?

And that's the bulk of the problem, right there. People bitching about something in which they have no stake. How many people now, like steven63, won't buy the 5DIII becuase of 'tape-gate'? Of those, I'd wager that >99% of them weren't going to buy one anyway.

No. I would not have happily plunked down the cash for it. I thought it was overpriced already but WAS considering buying until 'The fix,' - which as I see it, is not acceptable. I posted my opinion of why I thought it was not acceptable - with a few choice jabs at the engineering field in general because that is my real life experience with them. Apparently that bent a few people. Their problem, not mine.

And just because I don't own one doesn't mean I should not have input regarding my perceptions of the camera's build/design quality.

Does everyone realize they are complaining about my decisions and perceptions about this camera and my opinions about why? To me that wreaks of Canon FanBoy-ism.

It's my money. You people can buy the camera if you want. I promise I won't beat you up for it.

 

[LanceF]

My honor has been called in to question and I must defend my opinions to the death because my opinions matter on this subject and must be heard at all costs!

They see me trollin', they hatin!

 

[bp]

I promise I won't beat you up for it.

Whew! That's a relief

I apologize. I didn't mean to harsh your high after honestly venting about the camera you haven't purchased. You're right, it's your money you won't be spending, so you have every right to hold onto questionable expectations about the insides of compact electronics, and none of us should attempt to shatter them

So yes, in that spirit, you're 100% right: tape-like shielding is never used in high quality electronics
high priced restaurants never have messy kitchens
supermodels don't ever poop

 

[steven63]

I promise I won't beat you up for it.

Whew! That's a relief

I apologize. I didn't mean to harsh your high after honestly venting about the camera you haven't purchased. You're right, it's your money you won't be spending, so you have every right to hold onto questionable expectations about the insides of compact electronics, and none of us should attempt to shatter them

So yes, in that spirit, you're 100% right: tape-like shielding is never used in high quality electronics
high priced restaurants never have messy kitchens
supermodels don't ever poop

...and idiots don't have access to computers. Would you like to add anything constructive to the thread other than sarcasm?

 

[Loswr]

No. I would not have happily plunked down the cash for it. I thought it was overpriced already but WAS considering buying until 'The fix,' -

It's overpriced. It has tape inside. The chrome lettering on the front isn't shiny enough. Whatever.

Hey, I'm thinking of buying a new house. In the kitchen, one of the curtains doesn't quite close all the way, and some light gets in. It really bothers me. I mean, I don't plan to sleep in the kitchen, I won't develop B&W film there, it's not like I need it to be dark, but it's a problem and it bothers me. I contacted the owner, and he offered to re-hang the curtain rod. That's total BS. It's a bandaid and a substandard fix to the problem. I demanded that he tear out that wall, rebuild it from scratch with a copletely light-tight curtain - that's the only acceptable, truly high quality engineering fix.

I think that anyone who would not buy the 5DIII over this issue wasn't SERIOUSLY considering buying it anyway. Considering? Sure - just like I have considered buying a Ferrari or Lamborghini.

The bottom line is that this 'problem' isn't one that affects anything approaching a significant proportion of users, or even a tiny proportion of users, it got blown out of proportion, Canon responded even though there was no real need, and now people find that response inadequate despite the fact that it's a perfectly simple and functional solution.

I do think you're making the right choice, and I support you 100% - don't buy a 5DIII. I'm not going to buy that house with the light leak in the kitchen, either.