The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]

[Don Haines]

I really don’t expect to see much of an improvement over the 80D.

4K... of course....

Perhaps 2 more megapixels, a slightly better burst rate, hopefully a faster SD interface..... which becomes an almost unlimited buffer.... and some improvements to the WiFi interface.....

Other than that, we are approaching the limits of the current technology......

 

[Talys]

I love my 80D -- it's easily my favorite camera. It literally has everything I want from a camera for most purposes, including size, EXCEPT that the sensor has too much noise for my taste on most photos shot at higher ISOs.

The one thing that I'm looking for that would make me buy this is visibly better higher ISO performance. If it can be as clean as a 6DII at least at ISO 800, I'll seriously consider it. If it's as clean at 1200-1600, I'll buy it in an instant. Maybe this will happen with a new sensor; don't know.

There are other obvious things from the 77D and 6D2's featureset that will no doubt be brought over... Bluetooth and the ability to remember several wirelessly tethered devices, for example. I would expect usual stuff like minor FPS bump, some resolution bump, who knows, maybe some DR bumpage to make that crowd happy.

If the 90D records 4k, that would make a lot of people very happy, I suppose, and it has the EFS 18-135 nano, which is a good pairing for APSC video.

A "new generation of DPAF" sounds cool, though I almost never use it on my 80D.

One thing, though: if 7DIII doesn't come out in 2018, 90D this would further diminish 7D sales until its release.

 

[slclick]

I guess they will have a little wriggle room with 91D, 92D
The might also go back to 10M when its mirrorless.
Im not sure how dense they can make the MPs on APS-C.
I’m not sure more is desirable. I’d prefer better quality.
I thought the 7D2 and 5DSR overdid it for the technology of it the time.
I meet very few people nowadays with xxD cameras.
A lot of people I know jump to full frame from xxxD.
Maybe it’s more successful and in other countries.
I personally don’t see the point of the range these days.
But I guess others do.

I know quite a few folks who made the jump from the XXD to the 6D series. I also know a great deal more who have the 50D and 60D who love them (esp the 50) The 50D seems to have a special place in many peoples hearts. I myself went from Rebel to 7D to 5D.

 

[Tremotino]

What if all those new rebels are mirrorless and Canon enters the mirrorless market full swing?

The same idea came to my mind.
May it be a mirrorless, a hybrid and a classic rebel.

The 90d I think will have better sensor technology mainly because of the improved dpaf, which I really love on my 70d, smooth, precise and never fails.

 

[9VIII]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canon_EOS_digital_cameras
If you look at the release cycle of Canon's current products there are five bodies that should get a replacement in 2019, and one that would land in late 2018.

1200D lasted 2.25 years, 1300D should be replaced in Q3 2018.
750D and 760D lasted 2 years, 800D and 77D should be replaced in Q2 2019
70D lasted 2.75 years, 80D should be replaced in Q1 2019.
7D lasted 5 years, 7D MkII should be replaced in Q4 2019
5D MkIII lasted 4.5 years, 5DS should be replaced in Q4 2019

(I missed the EOS M6 at a 2.25 year cycle should be replaced Q3 2019, and while the M5 is the first in its category 3 years is probably the best trend to go by, which would put it's replacement in Q4 2019.)

It sounds like some are coming sooner but there should be a lot of new products coming out of Canon in the next two years.

 

[9VIII]

Ok maybe it's easier to put it the other way around, only four out of Canon's current thirteen lines of EOS bodies will go without replacement by the end of 2019.

(Three of those four remaining bodies being Full Frame, basically that means the entirety of Canon's APS-C production is getting revamped. The SL2 is the only current crop body that won't get replaced in the near future.)

 

[Talys]

Yeah, there is no way that 7DII, 77D, 80D, and 5DS are all replaced in 2019 though. It would be malpractice, since there are people who might buy 2 or more of those bodies, and dropping them all at the same time would kill that.

I'm interested in 7D3, 90D, and 5DSRII. I won't buy all 3, but if they're spaced a year apart, I might buy two.

Do I get a 7D3 or a 90D? That's easy; I'll probably be trilled with either, since I love my 80D. So the answer is... whichever comes out first.

Do I get the 5DSRII? If I get excited enough about it, and it hits the mark on the things that prevented me from seriously considering 5DSR... and if it's far enough away from my last camera body spend, because it's going to be a pricey luxury, that I know I don't really need.

 

[Imagewerx]

A bit of an aside but where is Canon going with the naming scheme following the 90D?

15D,25D,35D etc etc......

 

[Imagewerx]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canon_EOS_digital_cameras
If you look at the release cycle of Canon's current products there are five bodies that should get a replacement in 2019, and one that would land in late 2018.

1200D lasted 2.25 years, 1300D should be replaced in Q3 2018.
750D and 760D lasted 2 years, 800D and 77D should be replaced in Q2 2019
70D lasted 2.75 years, 80D should be replaced in Q1 2019.
7D lasted 5 years, 7D MkII should be replaced in Q4 2019
5D MkIII lasted 4.5 years, 5DS should be replaced in Q4 2019

(I missed the EOS M6 at a 2.25 year cycle should be replaced Q3 2019, and while the M5 is the first in its category 3 years is probably the best trend to go by, which would put it's replacement in Q4 2019.)

It sounds like some are coming sooner but there should be a lot of new products coming out of Canon in the next two years.

The replacement cycle gets longer and longer with each successive model range.

My first DSLR was an EOS 10D,and they already had release dates scheduled for the 20D,30D,40D and 50D,all roughly 18 months apart.It was after the the 50D it started to get longer before the next model came out (or at least that's the way I remember it).

 

[mistaspeedy]

The one thing that I'm looking for that would make me buy this is visibly better higher ISO performance. If it can be as clean as a 6DII at least at ISO 800, I'll seriously consider it. If it's as clean at 1200-1600, I'll buy it in an instant. Maybe this will happen with a new sensor; don't know.

Unfortunately this is impossible. Even the best of the best APS-C sensors from Sony and Nikon cannot come close to a full frame sensor. Do not expect that much difference in APS-C sensor performance for at least another 10 years, maybe more... the difference is that big.

https://gyazo.com/f4b8b43e330014ad0088fda4982d499a
Here is a comparison between the 80D, Sony a6500 (best APS-C) and 6D mark II.

Here is another comparison... Canon 10D from 2003 vs Sony a6500
https://gyazo.com/cea02d897a0ccfd5da2b1c6387b88e7d

It took 13 years in sensor technology to make up that gap... and the gap between the 80D and 6D mark II is the same.
Looking at the graphs... unless you want to shoot the Sony a6500 at really really high ISOs like 12800 to 51200, you can't get close to the 6D mark II with an APS-C sensor... but at that point the quality is severely degraded anyway.

Unfortunately that is the decision we are left with... the only real upgrade path with a big difference in performance is full frame, and all the associated expenses with full frame glass.

Last but not least... a funny little comparison between the 1D mark II (from 2004) and the 80D & a6500.
https://gyazo.com/a557806e1be6739564cfc0491e368ec8
Purely from an image noise perspective... the 1D mark II (1.3x crop) from 2004 is damn close to the 80D.
Just goes to show how much of a big difference sensor size makes.

PS: The 80D obliterates the 1D mark II in many many other measurements like dynamic range, resolution etc, I'm not saying they are comparable in everything.

 

[exquisitor]

I am curious, what the three Rebels will be and how they will differentiate. Two of them are probably going to be direct successors of 800D and 77D. But the third one? Will it be more video oriented with 4K?

 

[Sharlin]

The one thing that I'm looking for that would make me buy this is visibly better higher ISO performance. If it can be as clean as a 6DII at least at ISO 800, I'll seriously consider it. If it's as clean at 1200-1600, I'll buy it in an instant. Maybe this will happen with a new sensor; don't know.

Unfortunately this is impossible. Even the best of the best APS-C sensors from Sony and Nikon cannot come close to a full frame sensor. Do not expect that much difference in APS-C sensor performance for at least another 10 years, maybe more... the difference is that big.

Sensors are already less than one stop away from theoretical 100% efficiency at mid to high ISO values. The diminishing returns are evident when considering eg. these DR charts. I added the Nikon D7200 as a reference; its DR curve is very close to optimal.

 

[unfocused]

The one thing that I'm looking for that would make me buy this is visibly better higher ISO performance...

Unfortunately this is impossible. Even the best of the best APS-C sensors from Sony and Nikon cannot come close to a full frame sensor. Do not expect that much difference in APS-C sensor performance for at least another 10 years, maybe more... the difference is that big.

Sensors are already less than one stop away from theoretical 100% efficiency at mid to high ISO values. The diminishing returns are evident when considering eg. these DR charts. I added the Nikon D7200 as a reference; its DR curve is very close to optimal.

Excuse my ignorance, but are dynamic range and noise interchangeable? Can a sensor have better noise control without having more dynamic range? I'm unconcerned about dynamic range, but I would like cleaner files.

 

[zim]

+ 1 for improved noise at mid-high iso, more DR great if it's there but meh otherwise.

For me the biggest dissapointment is no 7D3 in 2018 I don't hold out any hope on that 20% of doubt.
I'll make do with what I've got and if neccessary rent, quite fancy having an excuse to try a 5D4 actually

 

[The Fat Fish]

"There is no mention of the mythical “4K” capability and we don’t want to guess either way"

They'd be the laughing stock of the industry if they didn't. Back when the 80D was released there were already complaints at the lack of 4K as the Sony and Nikons at the time offered it. The 80D was just enough of a camera to get away with it but in 2018 that isn't going to do.

Canon HAVE to break this streak of negative coverage (5DIV video and 6DII).

 

[davidcl0nel]

7D lasted 5 years, 7D MkII should be replaced in Q4 2019
5D MkIII lasted 4.5 years, 5DS should be replaced in Q4 2019

And 1DX II the same...
I think all 3 (7D3, 5D5, 1DX 3) professional comes late 2019 or Spring 2020, just before "their" Olympic Games in 2020 in Tokyo.

 

[mistaspeedy]

Excuse my ignorance, but are dynamic range and noise interchangeable? Can a sensor have better noise control without having more dynamic range? I'm unconcerned about dynamic range, but I would like cleaner files.

To answer your questions...
1) Dynamic range and noise (SNR) are NOT interchangeable.
2) Yes. A good example is 6D mark II vs 80D. The 6D mark II gives much cleaner files (SNR) than the 80D at all ISO levels due to the much bigger full frame sensor. At ISO 100 and ISO 200, the 80D has much better dynamic range. (They are nearly the same at ISO 400, and beyond that the 6D mark II is better.)

Let's say you take a side by side image from both cameras at ISO 100... the daytime sky will have less noise on the 6D mark II, but if you want to brighten the shadows a lot during editing, the 80D will be cleaner in those shadow areas (yet simultaneously have more noise in the sky).

If you take an image and look at the highlights and midtones (everything besides the deep shadows), and evaluate the noise... you are looking at the 'noise' or SNR (signal to noise ratio).
Looking at the noise in deep shadows is talking about dynamic range.

These two metrics are measured separately in DXOmark's tests for a reason.

Many people seem to think that the 6D mark II's sensor is worse in every way than the original 6D, when it is just the dynamic range that has fallen a little bit.
Resolution, SNR, tonal range and color sensitivity have all taken a step forward, especially at ISO 100.

 

[privatebydesign]

Canon HAVE to break this streak of negative coverage (5DIV video and 6DII).

It depends where you get your news from, if its YouTube then the 6D MkII is the new wonder child of achievable vlogging. All the big boys and many up and comers are saying how great it is and how it is the ultimate current vlogging camera.

The 5D MkIV is widely accepted as the best all round ff camera in the world. Seen any press conferences lately? Over 90% of photographers (by visual reference) are using 5D MkIII/IV's, they are used at thousands of weddings every weekend for both stills and video, portrait studios love them too, people like Peter Hurley and Sue Bryce keep the interest and profile of the camera pretty high.

If you look under rocks for your 'news' you will find snakes. If you look at photographers you will find Canon's.

 

[exquisitor]

I love my 80D -- it's easily my favorite camera. It literally has everything I want from a camera for most purposes, including size, EXCEPT that the sensor has too much noise for my taste on most photos shot at higher ISOs.

The one thing that I'm looking for that would make me buy this is visibly better higher ISO performance. If it can be as clean as a 6DII at least at ISO 800, I'll seriously consider it. If it's as clean at 1200-1600, I'll buy it in an instant. Maybe this will happen with a new sensor; don't know.

As mistaspeedy already mentioned this is not going to happen. But it would be nice if 90D would be on par with the current 24 MP Sony sensor at high ISO.

 

[mkabi]

"There is no mention of the mythical “4K” capability and we don’t want to guess either way"

They'd be the laughing stock of the industry if they didn't. Back when the 80D was released there were already complaints at the lack of 4K as the Sony and Nikons at the time offered it. The 80D was just enough of a camera to get away with it but in 2018 that isn't going to do.

Canon HAVE to break this streak of negative coverage (5DIV video and 6DII).

Don't wait, start laughing now....

And, at this point, I honestly don't think 4K will be available in the 90D...

Don't get me wrong, there is an obvious demand for it, although this forum doesn't think so... I'm sure that Canon wants to offer it too, but they can't... may be it is to protect their higher end cams or cinema cams... but I have another theory and that is that they don't know how to... Reason: its this ridiculous codec - MJPEG - that does 500mbps for 4K/24fps & 800mbps for 4K/60fps... Its great for IQ & color correction, but storage is a nightmare. So, the question is, can they be using this codec with their current SD interface?

Its also a big possibility that they bought the older SD interface in bulk, and want to get rid of them as much as possible before moving on.... remember how they had a bunch of 18MP sensors and they put them in everything from the 7D to the SL1.