The Canon EOS R1 may not come until 2024

Every time someone brings that up in an interview, the Canon employee gets very upset and will say the R3 is not the flagship. I don't think the rest of the world agrees with that, though :)
I agree, it's not THE flagship, but for sports it'll probably be... just like the Sony A9II (or iii) is for Sony and the A1 is the overall flagship...
 
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Aug 7, 2018
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I assume that with a high-res sensor they could easily employ a binning mechanism to shoot images at 1/4th or 1/9th of the full resolution.
My PhaseOne IQ180 back has a similar mechanism (it can deliver 80 or 20mp images) and that thing is old :)
Many current flagship phones employ similar mechanisms in their main camera sensors (my Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra has a 108mp main camera but normally shoots 12mp images (1/9th)
I wonder if the dynamic range might suffer though. Four times the resolution sounds nice, but that also means that the signal has to be amplified by four times and the noise with it. Of course noise gets lower if you average four pixels, but that does not work with a lower frequency noise. Also the R5 has some issues with colour shift to green or magenta when you want to recover shadows at high ISO. That does not happen with the R3. Is that just because the R3 has a stacked BSI sensor?

The upside of having four times as many pixels might be that demosaicing the RAW file might work better, as you have one red, one blue and two green pixels for every pixel of the low megapixel result. At the moment camera manufacturers cheat with the megapixel count, as they add all the coloured megapixels separately
 
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Will their flagship sports camera really be a high megapixel one? That seems like a step back for be, as the pixels will become much smaller. As those files have to be transferred within minutes anyway, they will use a low megapixel version anyway.
Is there anything wrong with selecting a smaller JPEG resolution (M or S instead of L), the functionality already present in Canon cameras?
 
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Is there anything wrong with selecting a smaller JPEG resolution (M or S instead of L), the functionality already present in Canon cameras?
Not if the quality still is the same. There also needs to be a smaller RAW format though. Otherwise we are left with those huge RAW files.

I still hope that one day we will see a camera with two sensors. One with low resolution and one with high resolution.
 
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Not if the quality still is the same.
At least in the R3 interface, the compression quality is configurable for each resolution option separately.

There also needs to be a smaller RAW format though.
I don't see the point. Whoever needs a small file for faster transfer, shoots JPEG/HEIF anyway.
 
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entoman

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I think these are conflicting priorities.
Not at all - I hope for a whole bucketload of improvements in the R5 Mkii / R5s, to make it a really worthwhile upgrade.

For example:

90-ish MP but with option to shoot uncropped 45MP and 22MP "RAWs"
ability to bracket exposures in electronic shutter
ability to specify low/medium high speed bursts in electronic shutter
much "stickier" AF tracking, and better subject recognition
"moving subject HDR" - as per R6 Mkii
more powerful processor
much better battery life

I think all of these are perfectly reasonable expectations for the R5 Mkii / R5s, but many of these improvements would require new hardware, so can't be implemented in the current R5.

Meanwhile, the R5 is likely IMO to remain current for another 2 years, so that's plenty of time for Canon to fix the freezes and other bugs in the R5 (and hopefully some extra functionality too, via firmware).
 
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TonyG

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I'm excited. If both Canon and Sony have their flagships ready for the 2024 Olympics, we should get a real treat for a competitive market. A lot of that technology should trickle down and I can only wait and see what the next generation of mirrorless cameras from both brands will bring.
2024 might sound like a long ways to go but don't forget 2022 is just about done. If it is a spring announcement, then we are only a year and a quarter a way.
 
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Not at all - I hope for a whole bucketload of improvements in the R5 Mkii / R5s, to make it a really worthwhile upgrade.
...
Meanwhile, the R5 is likely IMO to remain current for another 2 years, so that's plenty of time for Canon to fix the freezes and other bugs in the R5 (and hopefully some extra functionality too, via firmware).
Given Canon's existing track record, it will be highly unlikely to get any feature updates for R5 once R5II is released.

R5S is another story, but then it "needs" to be somewhat inferior to R5 (slower burst rate, for example) or considerably more expensive.
 
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Just being purely selfish here, but I *HOPE* that the R1 is delayed and that Canon concentrates its priorities instead on:

a) expanding the RF lens range
b) fixing all bugs in existing cameras
c) launching the "R5 Mkii" (which may turn out to be the same thing as the "R5s")
In my world all is fine and I wait for R1.
 
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Michael Clark

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Will their flagship sports camera really be a high megapixel one? That seems like a step back for be, as the pixels will become much smaller. As those files have to be transferred within minutes anyway, they will use a low megapixel version anyway.

Many of us consider the R3 to already be filling that role. It seems to me the R1 will be analogous to the old higher resolution EOS 1Ds series, but without as much of the handling speed penalty the 1Ds series suffered compared to the old lower resolution APS-H EOS 1D series.
 
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Michael Clark

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I can only see a 85+ MB sensor if they go internal recording, similar to the recent Hasselblad. Take 30 fps x 85 MB = 2.55 GB/sec which is above the spec of the Type B CFExpress cards and well above the observed performance.

So, either they are waiting on a Type C CFE card or it is internal recording.

Or they will continue to push those looking to shoot video with such high end equipment to their series of dedicated video cameras. Any of the EOS R1, R3, R5, R7, etc. series of cameras are first and foremost stills cameras as far as Canon is concerned. Yes, the ability to shoot both stills and video is important to many, perhaps even most, users of ILCs in 2022. But Canon wants those looking for a camera purely for shooting video to go to their C-line of products.
 
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Michael Clark

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Every time someone brings that up in an interview, the Canon employee gets very upset and will say the R3 is not the flagship. I don't think the rest of the world agrees with that, though :)

It's not the "flagship", but it is the "sports" body. Just as the higher resolution, FF 1Ds series was the "flagship" and the lower resolution, faster handling APS-H 1D series was the "sports" body from 2002-2012.
 
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Michael Clark

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The R1 not being release until 2024 makes complete sense to me. The Canon 1Dx Mk 3 was released on January 6, 2020 so I would anticipate a Q1 release of the R1 so photographers could have it in hand for the summer 2024 Olympics. WCS I spend more time using my R3.

In terms of specifications I really have no idea, but am guessing greater resolution than the R5 with the ability to pixel bin to capture lower resolution RAW files, cross-type AF, dual CFE type B slots, and metering linked to spot. Honestly, guess specs until Canon gives us a development announcement in late 2023 or early 2024?

Due to the nature of Bayer Masks, pixel binning "raw" files would require 1/8 resolution for the "red" (the filters are actually yellow-orange) and "blue" (the filters are actually about halfway between blue and violet) filters. Only "green" (the filters are actually a slightly yellow tinted green) repeat every other sensel along both the horizontal and vertical axes.
 
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Michael Clark

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I wonder if the dynamic range might suffer though. Four times the resolution sounds nice, but that also means that the signal has to be amplified by four times and the noise with it. Of course noise gets lower if you average four pixels, but that does not work with a lower frequency noise. Also the R5 has some issues with colour shift to green or magenta when you want to recover shadows at high ISO. That does not happen with the R3. Is that just because the R3 has a stacked BSI sensor?

The upside of having four times as many pixels might be that demosaicing the RAW file might work better, as you have one red, one blue and two green pixels for every pixel of the low megapixel result. At the moment camera manufacturers cheat with the megapixel count, as they add all the coloured megapixels separately

Except the filter on Bayer masks are not really "Red", "Green", and "Blue" if by RGB you mean the target RGB output colors of our emissive screens. "Red" isn't even remotely close, all of the cute little diagrams of RGB blocks that are supposed to be Bayer masks plastered all over the internet notwithstanding.

Actual color correct image of a partially removed Bayer mask.
a7s-dsc_0049.jpg

Typical sensitivity of a Bayer masked digital camera sensor.

fvEiG.png

Measured output of a fairly typical RGB monitor.
1571869126420.png

The whole idea that only the two "other" color values must be interpolated from each monochromatic luminance value output by each sensel is grossly misinformed. ALL of the color channel values of each pixel in an RGB (or CIE, or L*a*b, or CMYK) image are interpolated from the monochromatic luminance values in the raw data. Just as with our human retinas, all three filters allow some of all visible light through, they only allow more of the wavelengths near the peak transmissivity of each of the three filter types while they allow less of wavelengths further away from the peak of each filter.

1570410267016.png




Without this overlap between our short, medium, and long wavelength retinal cones our color vision would be impossible. Without the overlap between the "R", "G", and "B" filters over our camera sensors, getting color accurate images from digital cameras would also be impossible. Color is not intrinsic to any wavelength of light, or any other wavelength of electromagnetic radiation, for that matter. Color is a construct of the system that perceives it when certain wavelengths of EMR cause bio-chemical responses in our retinas that are then processed and assigned colors by our brains. In short, color is not a properly of what we call visible light, it is a property of the perception of a narrow portion of the overall EMR spectrum.
 
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Michael Clark

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These are great specs worth waiting for. And if true, it reaffirms my belief that the 1 series were low mpx so far because of a lack of processing power and not because Canon thought that low mpx was preferred.

The 1-Series prior to the release of the 1D X in 2012 was two-tiered from 2002-2012.

The 1Ds models had full frame (relative for the era) high resolution sensors that were limited in terms of handling speed due to available processing power.

The 1D models had APS-H (relative for the era) medium resolution sensors that were significantly faster handling (relative to other cameras in that era).

One of the reasons Canon stated they combined them in the 1D X was that processing power had "caught up" to the resolution needs of imaging professionals with the need for fast handling cameras, particularly sports photographers and other photojournalists.

They then bumped the 5-series resolution, which had not been higher than concurrent 1Ds models, above the 1D X with the simultaneous introduction of the 24 MP 5D Mark III, which also had a vastly improved AF system almost equal to the 1-Series that the first two in the 5-Series lacked. This gave those who had been using 1Ds models in studio setting a high quality option for higher resolution than the 1D X offered.

(Keep in mind that during the development of the 5D3 24MP was considered "high resolution" by most folks. Nikon surprised everyone with the 36MP D800 barely a month ahead of Canon's 5D Mark III announcement. The 36MP Sony α7r didn't come along until late 2013.)
 
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