The Canon EOS R3 will eliminate “Lag” and “Blackout” for stills shooters

perfpix

I'm New Here
Feb 15, 2017
15
29
Wow! That's an impressive burn rate. At 3,000 images per card, that's 60,000 images a weekend, or a shutter replacement every 8 months or so.
Close, I've taken 50,000 images in a weekend. However some weekends I only shoot 1000 depending at the event, and some weekends I don't shoot at all. The key is that for those weekends that I shoot a ton I need 20 cards, so owning less than 20 cards is not doable (I actually own about 50 CF cards and 20 SD cards). Also, I load onto a laptop or server multiple times a day so the need the 20 cards is for organization not capacity. Usually I shoot for myself but when I shoot for others often the requirement is to show up with 20 cards for the same reason.

I've replaced my share of shutters and mirror boxes, however, on 1DXs I can usually get twice the rated clicks out of a shutter. Usually 800,000 clicks or more on a 1DX2. Mirror boxes usually go after 1.2 to 1.5 million clicks. I average 500,000 clicks/year but I have other shooters who use my gear, including my daughter who put another 1/2 million clicks on various bodies per year.

John
 
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RayValdez360

Soon to be the greatest.
Jun 6, 2012
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Close, I've taken 50,000 images in a weekend. However some weekends I only shoot 1000 depending at the event, and some weekends I don't shoot at all. The key is that for those weekends that I shoot a ton I need 20 cards, so owning less than 20 cards is not doable (I actually own about 50 CF cards and 20 SD cards). Also, I load onto a laptop or server multiple times a day so the need the 20 cards is for organization not capacity. Usually I shoot for myself but when I shoot for others often the requirement is to show up with 20 cards for the same reason.

I've replaced my share of shutters and mirror boxes, however, on 1DXs I can usually get twice the rated clicks out of a shutter. Usually 800,000 clicks or more on a 1DX2. Mirror boxes usually go after 1.2 to 1.5 million clicks. I average 500,000 clicks/year but I have other shooters who use my gear, including my daughter who put another 1/2 million clicks on various bodies per year.

John
how do you have time to go through all those photos.
 
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perfpix

I'm New Here
Feb 15, 2017
15
29
how do you have time to go through all those photos.
I usually don't. They either go straight online (lately due to Covid) or straight to a bunch of laptops for onsite viewing and ordering (pre-covid). It is therefore paramount to get it right in the camera as the photos are selected and purchased straight from the camera. 98% of my shooting is indoors under controlled lighting often easy to set exposure & white balance but sometimes not constant as in a stage not evenly lit. Shooting as close to full frame as possible is another skill that sells photos. The crop feature in the R5/R6 is great for getting close crops when needed (something Nikon has had in their DSLR's for more than a decade, but not Canon). Note that selected photos (selected by hitting the lock button on my camera body to identify the image) also are displayed on numerous 50" monitors throughout the venue. These are also straight out of the camera Here are some examples of my work: https://www.flickr.com/photos/154032364@N08/albums (the dance and gymnastics are my high volume events where I shoot 10,000+ images/day).
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,430
2,296
Close, I've taken 50,000 images in a weekend. However some weekends I only shoot 1000 depending at the event, and some weekends I don't shoot at all. The key is that for those weekends that I shoot a ton I need 20 cards, so owning less than 20 cards is not doable (I actually own about 50 CF cards and 20 SD cards). Also, I load onto a laptop or server multiple times a day so the need the 20 cards is for organization not capacity. Usually I shoot for myself but when I shoot for others often the requirement is to show up with 20 cards for the same reason.

I've replaced my share of shutters and mirror boxes, however, on 1DXs I can usually get twice the rated clicks out of a shutter. Usually 800,000 clicks or more on a 1DX2. Mirror boxes usually go after 1.2 to 1.5 million clicks. I average 500,000 clicks/year but I have other shooters who use my gear, including my daughter who put another 1/2 million clicks on various bodies per year.

John

50,000 images in a weekend...two days is 172,800 seconds, so you're basically taking an image, on average every three and a half seconds, 24 hours a day. Probably closer to one every two seconds by the time you figure you're getting sleep in there somewhere.
 

Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
420
505
Orewa , New Zealand
I usually don't. They either go straight online (lately due to Covid) or straight to a bunch of laptops for onsite viewing and ordering (pre-covid). It is therefore paramount to get it right in the camera as the photos are selected and purchased straight from the camera. 98% of my shooting is indoors under controlled lighting often easy to set exposure & white balance but sometimes not constant as in a stage not evenly lit. Shooting as close to full frame as possible is another skill that sells photos. The crop feature in the R5/R6 is great for getting close crops when needed (something Nikon has had in their DSLR's for more than a decade, but not Canon). Note that selected photos (selected by hitting the lock button on my camera body to identify the image) also are displayed on numerous 50" monitors throughout the venue. These are also straight out of the camera Here are some examples of my work: https://www.flickr.com/photos/154032364@N08/albums (the dance and gymnastics are my high volume events where I shoot 10,000+ images/day).
Great photos John , I can see how the mums & dads would be keen to buy them.

Do you shoot them in jpeg ? If it's straight from the camera jpeg would look better wouldn't it ?

The R3 will probably be ideal for your workflow.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
1,047
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The "if you can afford an R3, 1DX3 (insert name here)" camera argument you can afford crazy high priced cards is just wrong. As a pro I need upwards of 20 cards on any given weekend. I don't shoot video, so SD cards are a stellar value. I would one thousand percent rather spend $4000-$5000 on a new body or lens than 20 CFExpress cards, or save the money and take my family on a great vacation! This is one of the main reasons I never upgraded from a 1DX2 to a 1DX3. Didn't want to spend thousands on memory cards.
I agree with your sentiment but I am surprised that SD cards could keep up with the type of shots you posted earlier.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS R
Sep 20, 2020
1,047
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John shoots jpeg so no problem using SD cards
I am not that brave.
I shoot JPEG to an SD card and RAW to CFExpress.
I only use a RAW photo when a JPEG is not good enough.
I plan to do the same with the R3.
If either camera had 2 CFExpress slots then I would shoot RAW + JPEG to both
 

Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
420
505
Orewa , New Zealand
I am not that brave.
I shoot JPEG to an SD card and RAW to CFExpress.
I only use a RAW photo when a JPEG is not good enough.
I plan to do the same with the R3.
If either camera had 2 CFExpress slots then I would shoot RAW + JPEG to both
RAW wouldn't work for his workflow and would look worse unprocessed than jpeg.
Many working pros exclusively shoot jpeg.
 

David - Sydney

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
941
789
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The A1 will get faster CF Express Type A cards in the future as we move on to new revisions. A 8 lane PCIe gen 4 slot has more bandwidth than a gen 1 16x slot. Eventually I expect it’ll be a dual SD Express and CF Express A slot since they both use the same internal bus so you just need something that lets the SD side also read some USB 2 interface for the UHS-1 pins.
The A1 is limited to what card/bus it currently has. Future mark 2 etc may be different but only needed if the camera provides internal raw.
UHS-ii spec came out in 2011 and really only available in 2020 from different suppliers. The industry skipped USH-iii from 2018 to our first SD Express card announced for 2022 with the lower bandwidth.
The SD card form factor will probably evolve for future specifications with higher bandwidth only if there is a need and volume. Currently CFe cards fill the bandwidth requirement with heat generation being the only downside. We are yet to see if SD Express will operate at a lower temperature.
CFe A cards will also need new specifications as they are limited to 1 PCIe lane.

What I am saying is that the vhs vs beta standard could be similar for SD Express/CFe B cards. Once a standard is dominate in the market and is good enough for people then the "best" option may not survive. Dual SD Express and CFe A card form factor looks to be the best solution but probably too late to the market.
 

Codebunny

Elil
Sep 5, 2018
961
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Scotland
The A1 is limited to what card/bus it currently has. Future mark 2 etc may be different but only needed if the camera provides internal raw.
UHS-ii spec came out in 2011 and really only available in 2020 from different suppliers. The industry skipped USH-iii from 2018 to our first SD Express card announced for 2022 with the lower bandwidth.
The SD card form factor will probably evolve for future specifications with higher bandwidth only if there is a need and volume. Currently CFe cards fill the bandwidth requirement with heat generation being the only downside. We are yet to see if SD Express will operate at a lower temperature.
CFe A cards will also need new specifications as they are limited to 1 PCIe lane.

What I am saying is that the vhs vs beta standard could be similar for SD Express/CFe B cards. Once a standard is dominate in the market and is good enough for people then the "best" option may not survive. Dual SD Express and CFe A card form factor looks to be the best solution but probably too late to the market.

You asked how the A1 would work. CF Express A cards work on PCIe and in the future will work on future generations of PCIe. Both SD Express and CF Express type A will be limited by the speed of the current PCIe gen they support. They'll likely produce equal heat with the CF Express card remaining more durable. SD Express will likely end up in consumer cameras like SD cards and CF Express (especially the faster type B) will remain dominate in the professional bodies. As the cards get even faster, they'll get hotter. SD Express may operate at a lower temperature, if they are slower.

CF Express A cards operate as a lower temperature than type B cards. New processes will increate the speed and/or lower the operating temperature of newer generation CF Express and SD Express cards, but it'll depends on the needs of the camera. If 1440 MB/s writing is enough then there is no need to make faster and hotter cards.

On the computer side there have been many instances of these SSD's now using heat spreaders, cooling fans, and even water-cooling in order to reach the performance of PCIe gen 4. But as alway, after a wee bit of time you get the same performance without a requiring additional cooling.
 

Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
420
505
Orewa , New Zealand
In response to Post #14 by amfoto1 saying CF cards should be standard in all cameras:
From my personal perspective, as a stills-only shooter, I don't want to pay for expensive Express CF cards that I don't actually need. That is one of the things that put me off the R5. I am perfectly happy with my two R6 bodies using SD cards. :) The price would need to drop considerably for me to be happy with switching - and one day that will likely happen. By then we may have a quite different body performance as well.
In a way this issue highlights the developing gap between the needs of the stills shooter and videographer having the same body. Video demands performance from components in the camera that still shooters do not need but have to pay for.
CF Express type B cards aren't all that expensive, here's a 64GB one at B&H for USD $100 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...fe_064g_ancnn_64gb_extreme_pro_cfexpress.html

It's the price of the R5 itself I can't afford , you've bought two R6s and yet can't afford one $100 card :ROFLMAO:

Maybe you need a 2TB one like this : https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ces_dcfx1_2tb_2tb_cfexpress_power_memory.html
That one is very expensive at USD $1000 but not sure who needs one that big :eek:
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
420
505
Orewa , New Zealand
I don't live in the US, and in nz the cheapest Express Cf card comes in at about $650.

Furthermore, your are comparing apples and oranges when you consider the cost of the CF against the body against my decision to get R6 bodies. I got the two R6 bodies for other reasons, based on the types of images I create and also, and very significantly, the types of output I create. I shoot with different lenses and I don't change them in the field, so I carry a body for each lens. I don't shoot video, so I don't need the higher video performance of the R5, and the R6 at 20MP works well for my purposes. If I wanted an R5, the cost locally would be close to $6,500NZ plus the cost of two CF cards. Quoting B&H values is invalid as those costs are considerably less to local US consumers. It is not valid to try to import them, due to the exchange rate of around $1=US$0.65, plus a 15% GST added on that, the cost of shipping (which is horrendous) and the fact that the North American warranty doesn't apply here.

One of the biggest mistakes is the assumption that people buy cameras with the same value sets - that is patently not true. People make equipment purchasing decisions for many, many reasons and those have a major impact on the cost/benefit relationship.

So, I am happy that you would get a camera with ECF cards, but for myself there is no cost benefit value.
I live in New Zealand too and you can get a 64GB card locally for NZD$209 : https://www.rubbermonkey.co.nz/SanDisk-64GB-Extreme-PRO-CFexpress-Card-Type-B?fromCategoryId=2804

Buying two R5s would be a lot of money though.

I would like to get an R5 to replace my 7Dii but the $6500 price is a lot of money for my bird photography hobby.
If I do get one though I'd be happy enough buying the CF Express card
 

Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
420
505
Orewa , New Zealand
As I said, I have different value sets and I don't criticize your, please don't criticize mine.
Heh , I'm not criticising you.
I'm only discussing buying choices and pricing.
I just had a look at some images you've posted on here : very nice ! Do you belong to the FB group Birds Auckland ?
Cheers
Noel
 

photo212

EOS M6 Mark II
Feb 14, 2013
80
15
With any digital processing you will have lag. Fact of life. Even the simplest of digital systems will have lag. Let's get the terminology right. It is impossible to eliminate lag for a mirrorless camera. Impossible. You can achieve very tiny amount of lag by clocking your CPU to work small increments of time per cycle. The right terminology is they might be able to reduce the lag to the point most people will not notice it. Personally, I find even that doubtful. They can reduce the lag to the point where many won't care.
 

Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
420
505
Orewa , New Zealand
I have a 7dII as well and still use it. However, for my purposes I must say the animal eye autofocus of the R5 and R6 is a bit of a game changer. I use the R6s with a range of lenses: Canon RF24-105F/4, RF24-240, Rf 100-500, and EF 70-200 f/2.8 IS MkII, all of the EF 70-300 lenses and the Sigma 150-600c and 60-600s lenses. The latter all work perfectly with the adapter.
Nice to know , the R5 & R6 seem to be the best Canons ever for wildlife (and perhaps the best of all cameras as their overall design ergonomics, user interface and build quality is just so great especially compared to Sony) and it'll be interesting to see how the R3 stacks up for wildlife & sports.
 
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koenkooi

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Feb 25, 2015
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[..] Maybe you need a 2TB one like this : https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ces_dcfx1_2tb_2tb_cfexpress_power_memory.html
That one is very expensive at USD $1000 but not sure who needs one that big :eek:
On my vacation last week, the laptop refused to power on on day 2, so I had no good way to get pictures of the CFe card. Since it was a family vacation I didn't do muc heavy shooting, but for future trips I'd like to have more and larger cards in my bag. And also bring my ipad so I can use its USB-C port to backup pictures in case the laptop breaks down again.

Realistically, if I was looking at buying 2 of those 2TB cards I'd be very tempted to buy the Laowa Probe lens instead, since that's the same amount of money.
 
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Chig

Birds in Flight Nutter
Jul 26, 2020
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On my vacation last week, the laptop refused to power on on day 2, so I had no good way to get pictures of the CFe card. Since it was a family vacation I didn't do muc heavy shooting, but for future trips I'd like to have more and larger cards in my bag. And also bring my ipad so I can use its USB-C port to backup pictures in case the laptop breaks down again.

Realistically, if I was looking at buying 2 of those 2TB cards I'd be very tempted to buy the Laowa Probe lens instead, since that's the same amount of money.
Or you could just shoot jpeg , when I run out of space I take out my CF card erase my SD card and set my 7Dii to jpeg with my SD 32GB card and I can shoot 10,000 images more.
 
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koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
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Feb 25, 2015
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Or you could just shoot jpeg , when I set my 7Dii to jpeg with my CF 32GB + SD 32GB cards I can shoot 10,000 images
With the amount of metering 'mistakes' I make, (C)RAW is the way to go, I had too many cases where I went from shooting normally to shooting backlit and didn't think of bumping up exposure compensation at that moment.

I'm learning that small kids are harder to photograph than jumping spiders :)
 
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