The Canon EOS R3 will eliminate “Lag” and “Blackout” for stills shooters

[arbitrage]

What on earth is this article even talking about?
Sometimes I think people that write these things really have never used an R5/6. For one there is no blackout in ES or in 12FPS MS/EFCS. Secondly, what does lag refer to? There are a number of different lags in the R5 and some that exist in all cameras with an EVF. In fact there is shutter lag in all cameras, even DSLRs.

Does lag refer to the slideshow jumpiness on R5/R6 when letting off the shutter in ES? Does lag refer to the wakeup time of the EVF from sleep or even when not in sleep? Does lag refer to the EVF lag present due to the time it takes to bring in the RAW data and send an image to the EVF? Or does lag refer to the shutter lag I mentioned earlier?

When I read this this morning and started reading through this thread the discussion gravitated towards discussing EVF wakeup time. Somehow I don't think that was what the article was referring to...but who knows??

What the R3's stacked sensor is most likely going to fix is slideshow jumpiness when letting off the shutter in ES and the stutter in 12FPS MS/EFCS. It also may decrease the lag in processing and displaying the image in the EVF. It isn't going to eliminate blackout because there is no blackout to eliminate (I guess maybe in the slower FPS MS modes). Canon should do something about the wakeup time though.

I owned the R5 for 6 months. I've been shooting the A1 since I sold it. This past Saturday I shot the R5 for an entire day just to reacquaint myself with the pros and cons. Wakeup lag was annoying (A1 can turn off sleep mode...EVF still goes off after 2s but EVF wakes instantly with the sensor without any pushing buttons ahead of raising it to your eye). Grabbing backgrounds with AF was annoying. The stutter when letting off the shutter during a burst was costing me shots. Not being able to change the ES FPS was annoying. Seeing leaning structures, trees, grass in my backgrounds was annoying. All in all, the R3 has lots of things to improve on over the R5/6 if it wants to compete with the A1. I'm certain it will fix most, if not all, of these things with the stacked sensor. And I'm sure the R1 will fix the MP deficit.

On the positive the R5 on Saturday showed me that the BEAF is still top of the class and the in focus hit rate (when the AF was working and not jumping to the background) was excellent.

 

[nemophoto]

I, personally, want a slight bit of blackout in the viewfinder. It give me a reinforced sense of what I shot. On my R5, the zero blackout at 20 FPS is a bit concerting. What I don't like is the stuttering of the viewfinder, which is better on the R5 than the R. The more it can mimic an SLR/DSLR, the better, in my view.

 

[jam05]

Interestingly there's no posting of any video from the camera. Only still images and burst mode, with scrubbed and edited EXIF files. There will be a few surprises and corrections in a month or so. Same as there was with the R5 last year.

 

[RayValdez360]

This may be a dumb noob question. But here it goes.
Does the lag affect AF tracking, or does it affect the viewfinder only? In other words, does the lag result from processing the input from the sensor, before it does AF calculations and EVF display? Or is the lag a result of slow EVF response?

EVF. You take a photo and it takes time to show up on the EVF. It's an issue if every bit of time counts when getting the next shot like when shooting sports.

 

[maulanawale]

I'm so used to EVF lag now that I'm afraid the day I get a camera with little to no lag, I'll pan too hard when doing BIF. Just like when you think there's more milk left in the carton and knock the sh*t out of the fridge shelf above it

 

[AlanF]

What on earth is this article even talking about?
Sometimes I think people that write these things really have never used an R5/6. For one there is no blackout in ES or in 12FPS MS/EFCS. Secondly, what does lag refer to? There are a number of different lags in the R5 and some that exist in all cameras with an EVF. In fact there is shutter lag in all cameras, even DSLRs.

Does lag refer to the slideshow jumpiness on R5/R6 when letting off the shutter in ES? Does lag refer to the wakeup time of the EVF from sleep or even when not in sleep? Does lag refer to the EVF lag present due to the time it takes to bring in the RAW data and send an image to the EVF? Or does lag refer to the shutter lag I mentioned earlier?

When I read this this morning and started reading through this thread the discussion gravitated towards discussing EVF wakeup time. Somehow I don't think that was what the article was referring to...but who knows??

What the R3's stacked sensor is most likely going to fix is slideshow jumpiness when letting off the shutter in ES and the stutter in 12FPS MS/EFCS. It also may decrease the lag in processing and displaying the image in the EVF. It isn't going to eliminate blackout because there is no blackout to eliminate (I guess maybe in the slower FPS MS modes). Canon should do something about the wakeup time though.

I owned the R5 for 6 months. I've been shooting the A1 since I sold it. This past Saturday I shot the R5 for an entire day just to reacquaint myself with the pros and cons. Wakeup lag was annoying (A1 can turn off sleep mode...EVF still goes off after 2s but EVF wakes instantly with the sensor without any pushing buttons ahead of raising it to your eye). Grabbing backgrounds with AF was annoying. The stutter when letting off the shutter during a burst was costing me shots. Not being able to change the ES FPS was annoying. Seeing leaning structures, trees, grass in my backgrounds was annoying. All in all, the R3 has lots of things to improve on over the R5/6 if it wants to compete with the A1. I'm certain it will fix most, if not all, of these things with the stacked sensor. And I'm sure the R1 will fix the MP deficit.

On the positive the R5 on Saturday showed me that the BEAF is still top of the class and the in focus hit rate (when the AF was working and not jumping to the background) was excellent.

For those who don't know because he rarely posts here nowadays, arbitrage is, among other birding activities, one of the very top BIF guys, specialising in extreme difficult shots, who shoots across Sony (mainly now), Canon and Nikon, and gives unbiased comments. For us less demanding in our speed requirements, the niggles are less significant and the unparalleled eyeAF the transformational feature of the R5. And, as he writes, we don't have to worry about blackout and lag.

 

[Deleted member 381342]

How would the A1 work then as the CFe Type A cards only have one PCIe lane?

The A1 will get faster CF Express Type A cards in the future as we move on to new revisions. A 8 lane PCIe gen 4 slot has more bandwidth than a gen 1 16x slot. Eventually I expect it’ll be a dual SD Express and CF Express A slot since they both use the same internal bus so you just need something that lets the SD side also read some USB 2 interface for the UHS-1 pins.

 

[perfpix]

I have taken 250,000+ shots on rented R5s & R6s. 95% of these shots are in single shot mode timing the photo in 1st curtain electronic shutter mode. Never noticed any lag after getting used to the timing after the first day or 2 of shooting. My biggest complaints are banding and not enough feedback when taking a photo (i.e. nothing telling me that the photo was taken accept an almost in-perceivable flicker in the viewfinder) when using fully electronic shutter. Also much prefer to built in grip on 1DXs. I will be an R3 buyer for sure as I expect/hope that my 2 complaints will be address and it will have a build in grip. The examples below were all taken in single shot mode with electronic 1st curtain shutter. Lag/Timing is not a problem.

 

[perfpix]

I don't understand why Canon would put an SD card slot in a camera like the R3. It would make more sense to provide two Cfexpress slots and anyone who can afford the camera will certainly be able to afford the more expensive type of memory cards.. A camera "built for speed" should have the fastest available memory cards and nothing less.
I have a feeling that the R3 will essentially be the "mirrorless 1DX Mark III", inheriting that camera's "pro sports shooter" role. Further, I bet the R1 is in the works and will be Canon's "megapixel monster", likely with between 75 and 85MP.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens.... And potentially really hard on my credit cards!

The "if you can afford an R3, 1DX3 (insert name here)" camera argument you can afford crazy high priced cards is just wrong. As a pro I need upwards of 20 cards on any given weekend. I don't shoot video, so SD cards are a stellar value. I would one thousand percent rather spend $4000-$5000 on a new body or lens than 20 CFExpress cards, or save the money and take my family on a great vacation! This is one of the main reasons I never upgraded from a 1DX2 to a 1DX3. Didn't want to spend thousands on memory cards.

 

[AlanF]

The "if you can afford an R3, 1DX3 (insert name here)" camera argument you can afford crazy high priced cards is just wrong. As a pro I need upwards of 20 cards on any given weekend. I don't shoot video, so SD cards are a stellar value. I would one thousand percent rather spend $4000-$5000 on a new body or lens than 20 CFExpress cards, or save the money and take my family on a great vacation! This is one of the main reasons I never upgraded from a 1DX2 to a 1DX3. Didn't want to spend thousands on memory cards.

I got on perfectly well as a stills shooter using just the SD slot in the R5, and bought a CFExpress only because there was a very cheap deal. Even though I can afford them, I resent having to buy expensive CFExpress cards when I don't need them. In your case, the cost ism extortionate.

 

[Bahrd]

The 1DX and R3 still haven't matched the pixel density of the last APS-H.

The use of smaller sensors was actually because they provided better yields out of wafers. If the number of bad zones was consistent across wafers but randomly distributed on each, they could get more 'all good' APS-H circuits off a wafer than full-frame. And thus they could afford to push the density higher because they were getting more good circuits.

Also (from Wikipedia):

"Canon selected the intermediate APS-H size, since it was at the time the largest that could be patterned with a single mask, helping to control production costs and manage yields.[18] Newer photolithography equipment now allows single-pass exposures for full-frame sensors, although other size-related production constraints remain much the same."

 

[SHAMwow]

I got on perfectly well as a stills shooter using just the SD slot in the R5, and bought a CFExpress only because there was a very cheap deal. Even though I can afford them, I resent having to buy expensive CFExpress cards when I don't need them. In your case, the cost ism extortionate.

Same. I bought two CF Express cards and I don't ever anticipate buying more while I own my R5. Hated buying them. The value is just insanely terrible regardless of their speed. Matching CFExpress would have pushed me out of the R5.

 

[GoldWing]

I am glad this settles the 'Vari angle, touch screen' not belonging to pro cameras.

They will break in abundance

 

[privatebydesign]

They will break in abundance

That is simply ridiculous. If you are that clumsy and stupid just reverse the screen one time and tape it to the body so it can’t hinge out. Problem solved.

Having said that looking through eBay and Craigslist at the overwhelming number of cameras with broken swivel screens is a good data point. /sarcasm.

Hint: there are very few and there are a lot more Rebels out there than 1 series and the average person is a lot less concerned with their $500 camera than a pro is with their livelihood.

 

[Sporgon]

They will break in abundance

I hope that Canon have designed the electronics in such a way as to allow the rest of the camera to continue to function normally should the screen get snapped off. Which one of mine almost certainly will. Yes, I’m clumsy I managed to snap the pop up flash off on a D200

 

[neuroanatomist]

That is simply ridiculous. If you are that clumsy and stupid just reverse the screen one time and tape it to the body so it can’t hinge out. Problem solved.

Goldwing is probably just overly sensitive to having things that stick out to the side getting broken off. Maybe it happens all the time to him.

 

[SNJ Ops]

I, personally, want a slight bit of blackout in the viewfinder. It give me a reinforced sense of what I shot. On my R5, the zero blackout at 20 FPS is a bit concerting. What I don't like is the stuttering of the viewfinder, which is better on the R5 than the R. The more it can mimic an SLR/DSLR, the better, in my view.

What’s happening is that you are being shown a slideshow of previous shots which was Canon’s way of having “blackout free shooting” To truly eliminate this an EVF with a faster refresh rate is what’s needed.
One of the reasons why the A1 costs so much more than the R5 as its EVF has a fast mode the ups the refresh rate for fast action tracking.

 

[raptor3x]

What on earth is this article even talking about?
Sometimes I think people that write these things really have never used an R5/6. For one there is no blackout in ES or in 12FPS MS/EFCS. Secondly, what does lag refer to? There are a number of different lags in the R5 and some that exist in all cameras with an EVF. In fact there is shutter lag in all cameras, even DSLRs.

In the context of mirrorless bodies, blackout doesn't just mean an actual black frame as would be the equivalent from a DSLR. Blackout means any time that the EVF stops updating. The R5/R6 don't display any black frames during burst shooting, but they do revert to only displaying the previously captured frame rather than a live feed from the sensor. If anything, inserting black frames actually helps with tracking as it minimizes the slideshow effect you otherwise get. This is where cameras like the A9/A1/X-T3/X-T4 have a huge advantage for sports shooting as they are able to keep updating the EVF with a liveview feed at 60fps even during a burst.

 

[unfocused]

...I need upwards of 20 cards on any given weekend....

Wow! That's an impressive burn rate. At 3,000 images per card, that's 60,000 images a weekend, or a shutter replacement every 8 months or so.

 

[perfpix]

Wow! That's an impressive burn rate. At 3,000 images per card, that's 60,000 images a weekend, or a shutter replacement every 8 months or so.

Close, I've taken 50,000 images in a weekend. However some weekends I only shoot 1000 depending at the event, and some weekends I don't shoot at all. The key is that for those weekends that I shoot a ton I need 20 cards, so owning less than 20 cards is not doable (I actually own about 50 CF cards and 20 SD cards). Also, I load onto a laptop or server multiple times a day so the need the 20 cards is for organization not capacity. Usually I shoot for myself but when I shoot for others often the requirement is to show up with 20 cards for the same reason.

I've replaced my share of shutters and mirror boxes, however, on 1DXs I can usually get twice the rated clicks out of a shutter. Usually 800,000 clicks or more on a 1DX2. Mirror boxes usually go after 1.2 to 1.5 million clicks. I average 500,000 clicks/year but I have other shooters who use my gear, including my daughter who put another 1/2 million clicks on various bodies per year.

John