The Canon EOS R6 is still scheduled to be announced in May [CR2]

[herein2020]

I do print a lot and print them as large prints, 16x20 or larger.
If for video and stills secondary, then fine.

I think in your case then Canon expects you to get the RP or R for now and maybe an as yet unannounced R8 (see my completely speculatory model list below) or the R5 sometime in the future:

R1 - 1DX Mirrorless Replacement
R5 - 5D Replacement
R5S - 5DS Replacement
R6 - Video focused body but with less resolution to protect the R5
R8 - Entry level FF Canon Mirrorless (aka RP Mark II)

 

[knight427]

Honestly, those specifications are more than good enough for me. I dont do video but if I did, 4k would be the limit my computer could handle. The speed is what I want at 12 frames per second, and I love that its 20mp because I'm hoping that'll be Canons lowlight beast.

Me too. The R was attractive except for the embarrassingly low FPS. As an armature who likes both BiF and milky way AP, the R6 could be the perfect balance.

 

[herein2020]

I agree with your comment about uneducated buyers wanting more megapixels.

Thankfully, I have just enough understanding to not want more I am happy with 20 with better noise and DR.

Sometimes I think my current 5DIV with 30MP is still too much. Everytime Lightroom freezes, Photoshop crashes, and Windows Explorer takes forever to show thumbnails I wish the file sizes were smaller. My typical customer will never print the images let alone at full resolution and everyone who says "storage is cheap so who cares about the file sizes" doesn't take into consideration the extra time needed in every step of the workflow from capture to delivery. The one area where I do like the 30MP is when I need to reframe the image or crop in on a shot when I couldn't get close enough to the subject material.

I am not trying to justify their 20MP sensor size decision especially if this camera is not as video focused as I think it will be, but I also have been in this industry long enough to know 20MP should not be a deal breaker for 99% of what most people create the images for.

 

[scyrene]

Usually higher megapixels doesn't do well with higher iso, more pixels to introduce noise to, the 6D is only 20mp and I have been able to deliver photos to clients at 12k and higher iso

Pssst this is largely a myth for stills shooting.

 

[padam]

R1 - 1DX Mirrorless Replacement
R5 - 5D Replacement
R5S - 5DS Replacement
R6 - Video focused body but with less resolution to protect the R5
R8 - Entry level FF Canon Mirrorless (aka RP Mark II)

The last two where it fails. The R6 can be considered the 6D replacement and going in a different direction as a lower cost low-light photo-video hybrid camera.
So it would be exactly what they would do instead of a 6D Mark III, which is probably never going to come. (I think the 5D Mark V is still coming later on)

The RP is the older one in the same cheap product line, so it is cheap one and the entry to the system until its product cycle ends (it was three more years to go) and only then there may be some replacement to that.

 

[herein2020]

The last two where it fails. The R6 can be considered the 6D replacement and going in a different direction as a lower cost low-light photo-video hybrid camera.
So it would be exactly what they would do instead of a 6D Mark III, which is probably never going to come. (I think the 5D Mark V is still coming later on)

The RP is the older one in the same cheap product line, so it is cheap one and the entry to the system until its product cycle ends (it was three more years to go) and only then there may be some replacement to that.

I think they are going to wait and see what mirrorless adoption looks like prior to committing to a 5D Mark V. And if they do release one I think it would be with an RF mount so you get the best of both worlds...OVF with RF mount and EF backwards compatibility with the adapter. Of course they did just announce their latest Cinema camera and it is still just EF or PL mount so maybe there is a bit of EF life left.

 

[navastronia]

20mp simply doesn't make sense for a 6D replacement. It's too low. The 90D sells for $1100 and has 32.5 mp. You can't sell a 20mp camera for $2000 or more unless there's something special about it (i.e., it's a 1DX body, or it's a specialty video body).

So, I believe that if has only has 20mp, it's going to be a video-centric body. I know I'm in the minority, to think this, but I can't imagine who's going to line up to buy it, otherwise, given that there are so many other options on the market that offer higher MP for less money. At the end of the day, for better or worse, the majority of photographers do care about resolution.

I've been saying it for months, but this camera, as currently speced and speculatively priced, does not make sense.

 

[padam]

I think they are going to wait and see what mirrorless adoption looks like prior to committing to a 5D Mark V. And if they do release one I think it would be with an RF mount so you get the best of both worlds...OVF with RF mount and EF backwards compatibility with the adapter. Of course they did just announce their latest Cinema camera and it is still just EF or PL mount so maybe there is a bit of EF life left.

They add in the R5 features with a different IBIS system tailored for EF-mount lenses and to work in a DSLR body that comes with a simpler version of the 1DX III focusing system with deep learning as it's been done in the past, and they have a very desirable camera for EF-mount users.
Hybrid viewfinders, or adapters with OVFs on top look interesting on patent papers, but they don't really make sense in the real word, even the 1DX didn't come with it, and it's 6500$
Just use everything the way it currently is on a 5D and to that, add in the new technology, maybe make the screen articulated, but they really don't need to complicate it any further, it is what the 5D user base needs, unless the R5 attacts them so much that they won't do it. But I think some things on that camera just won't quite work in the same, straightforward seamless way it does on a 5D.

 

[padam]

20mp simply doesn't make sense for a 6D replacement. It's too low. The 90D sells for $1100 and has 32.5 mp. You can't sell a 20mp camera for $2000 or more unless there's something special about it (i.e., it's a 1DX body, or it's a specialty video body).

So, I believe that if has only has 20mp, it's going to be a video-centric body. I know I'm in the minority, to think this, but I can't imagine who's going to line up to buy it, otherwise, given that there are so many other options on the market that offer higher MP for less money. At the end of the day, for better or worse, the majority of photographers do care about resolution.

I've been saying it for months, but this camera, as currently speced and speculatively priced, does not make sense.

It does make actually make perfect sense.
It is called moving with the times, seeing what's trending and what's not.
And that is exactly what the A7III is in the mirrorless world (or X-T3, X-T4 etc. etc.) it is tailored both photo and video creation. Will it increase megapixels in its next iteration? I don't think so, I think it will remain at 24MP, at least for now. Unless it could improve video capabilities and the ISO while doing that, which probably won't happen, seeing the A7RIV not really improving for video over the predecessor.

Making a camera with more megapixels and being more compromised in video would make it much less of a head-to-head competitor against these cameras or it would be priced out of this price range, which still seems to be shifting quite well.
Despite some grumbling on the forums for being lower megapixel, this is not what most people actually want, especially when parts like the DPAF, existing line of EF lenses, colour science, interface, articulating screen, etc. are already there. What they've complained about are the lack of IBIS, dual card slots and video features and ISO. Everything is there with this camera, I just hope they won't cripple the dynamic range of this newer generation cheaper FF sensor, to be able to keep the C-Log in as well and to have good external 10-bit 4:2:2 capabilities.
But I think they are designing it with a fair few years of product life in mind and price it around the A7III, so I think the 6DII / RP levels of dynamic range on a FF sensor are over.

So overall, if we classify this as the next model in the 6D line of cameras like EOS R6 name suggests, it is called re-branding, although it this case it is part of a new system, not exactly a continuation of the 6D line. And its old derivative, the RP can continue to sit at the lowest point and the EOS R can also continue for those who value more megapixels at a lower price point over other missing things, which all made their way into the higher-end EOS R5.

 

[bbasiaga]

I think they are going to wait and see what mirrorless adoption looks like prior to committing to a 5D Mark V. And if they do release one I think it would be with an RF mount so you get the best of both worlds...OVF with RF mount and EF backwards compatibility with the adapter. Of course they did just announce their latest Cinema camera and it is still just EF or PL mount so maybe there is a bit of EF life left.

I don't think that is physically possible. The flange to sensor distance on the RF mount is shorter than the EF mount. That is what allows you to adapt EF glass- the spacer would otherwise make it so the lens would lose a significant amount of focal range. So with the shorter flange distance you no longer have room to flip a mirror, and therefore no OVF.

-Brian

 

[bbasiaga]

“R5 - 5D Replacement”……
Wouldn’t the R5 accept EF lenses natively instead of using adapters if it were truly a 5D replacement?

No bro. It would have to have an EF mount to do that, and therefore wouldn't be an RF mount/R series camera. While I suppose you could just take the mirror out of an EF camera and use the mirrorless style body, you lose the advantage in size and weight you can get with the RF mount. All that empty space for the mirror would still be there and be unused.

The R5 may ship with an adapter, and the adapters so far seem to be very fully featured so as to be nearly seamless. Which is a pretty stellar deal in my mind.

Perhaps the post you referenced could have more accurrately described as ' R5- 5D Mirorrless Equivalent'. But I think the assumption in his 'replacement' is that the mirrorless line is eventually going to replace the EF mount line.

-Brian

 

[victorshikhman]

The megapixel wars are over, or need to be. 20MP is perfectly fine for 90% of professional still image work. Lower MP but bigger pixels can be great for low light performance, which is a big deal for plenty of bread and butter photography. Many portrait pros prefer shooting at lower resolutions - most customers don't want their every wrinkle in crisp detail. And with computational software doing image stacking/sensor shift high res modes, even smaller MP sensors can deliver quite large MP files (50-100MP+), when necessary. But many don't want those crazy resolutions outside of very specific settings - large prints, need to crop, etc. And anyone who wants more "native" MP can just get the R5, or wait for the mythical high res beast. Everyone gets what they want. Or they switch to Sony. Thank G-d we live in a time of endless options and amazing performance. If only our creative and professional opportunities were limited by our gear, we would have a reason to complain. Almost no one can say that today.

 

[Andy Westwood]

We are all looking forward to the R5 and R6 launch, but what we must remember is Canon has been playing catch up in the mirrorless market for a while now. Sony’s mirrorless cameras have been a revolution for years and Canon’s recent models have not really given us much to cheer about excluding the EOS R firmware update 4 and the RF Glass of course but body wise well, it’s all been a little tame sadly.

The Canon R5 sounds spectacular in every way and a gamechanger but getting back to the R6, Canon needs to up its game just ask any Sony user and these days I know loads of them, mostly photographers who at some stage have jumped ship from Canon or Nikon and let’s face it who could blame them.

Sony users expect and get, Incredible Autofocus Performance, uncropped video, and fast frame rates in 1080 and 4K, great Low-Light performance, IBIS, Dual Card Slots and much more.

Canon users should start to expect all this too, because of their loyalty to the brand and because as Sony have proved it is all very possible.

I am looking forward to the R6 it is high on my Wishlist already. I have no problem with the 20mp sensor, but I hope Canon remembers the competition and doesn’t cripple this camera because the A7 III although a little dated now but even still it’s a fantastic camera and the A7 IV is surely only around the corner.

 

[navastronia]

It does make actually make perfect sense.
It is called moving with the times, seeing what's trending and what's not.
And that is exactly what the A7III is in the mirrorless world (or X-T3, X-T4 etc. etc.) it is tailored both photo and video creation. Will it increase megapixels in its next iteration? I don't think so, I think it will remain at 24MP, at least for now. Unless it could improve video capabilities and the ISO while doing that, which probably won't happen, seeing the A7RIV not really improving for video over the predecessor.

Making a camera with more megapixels and being more compromised in video would make it much less of a head-to-head competitor against these cameras or it would be priced out of this price range, which still seems to be shifting quite well.
Despite some grumbling on the forums for being lower megapixel, this is not what most people actually want, especially when parts like the DPAF, existing line of EF lenses, colour science, interface, articulating screen, etc. are already there. What they've complained about are the lack of IBIS, dual card slots and video features and ISO. Everything is there with this camera, I just hope they won't cripple the dynamic range of this newer generation cheaper FF sensor, to be able to keep the C-Log in as well and to have good external 10-bit 4:2:2 capabilities.
But I think they are designing it with a fair few years of product life in mind and price it around the A7III, so I think the 6DII / RP levels of dynamic range on a FF sensor are over.

So overall, if we classify this as the next model in the 6D line of cameras like EOS R6 name suggests, it is called re-branding, although it this case it is part of a new system, not exactly a continuation of the 6D line. And its old derivative, the RP can continue to sit at the lowest point and the EOS R can also continue for those who value more megapixels at a lower price point over other missing things, which all made their way into the higher-end EOS R5.

So, you agree with me, which is that this is "not exactly a continuation of the 6D line." It's a body for "both photo and video" ---- though if we're being honest, the only major innovation in this body (IBIS) pertains mostly to video, and the major limitation of this body (mp) pertains mostly to photo. Another way to say that is that it's a video-centric body.

I.e., I believe the evidence demonstrates I'm still correct.

 

[herein2020]

So, you agree with me, which is that this is "not exactly a continuation of the 6D line." It's a body for "both photo and video" ---- though if we're being honest, the only major innovation in this body (IBIS) pertains mostly to video, and the major limitation of this body (mp) pertains mostly to photo. Another way to say that is that it's a video-centric body.

I.e., I believe the evidence demonstrates I'm still correct.

I agree with you, the 6 in R6 everyone understands, the 20MP everyone understands, when you put the two together it all gets confusing. I think this is more a repositioning of the 6D to a more upmarket product position while leaving room below it for a new entry level MILC FF in Canon's lineup. Just like the R5 is positioned as a 5D equivalent/replacement yet it has more video features than the 5D ever did.

I do still think the 20MP sensor is some flavor or slight derivative of the 1DXIII's sensor which to me would be more innovative than the specs so far have shown, I also think (hope) Canon has a few more tricks up its sleeve that they have yet to reveal for the R6 such as raw over HDMI; however, even with just the specs as revealed so far, as long as there are no major crippling limitations this would be the perfect GH5 replacement for me.

We are all looking forward to the R5 and R6 launch, but what we must remember is Canon has been playing catch up in the mirrorless market for a while now. Sony’s mirrorless cameras have been a revolution for years and Canon’s recent models have not really given us much to cheer about excluding the EOS R firmware update 4 and the RF Glass of course but body wise well, it’s all been a little tame sadly.

The Canon R5 sounds spectacular in every way and a gamechanger but getting back to the R6, Canon needs to up its game just ask any Sony user and these days I know loads of them, mostly photographers who at some stage have jumped ship from Canon or Nikon and let’s face it who could blame them.

Sony users expect and get, Incredible Autofocus Performance, uncropped video, and fast frame rates in 1080 and 4K, great Low-Light performance, IBIS, Dual Card Slots and much more.

Canon users should start to expect all this too, because of their loyalty to the brand and because as Sony have proved it is all very possible.

I am looking forward to the R6 it is high on my Wishlist already. I have no problem with the 20mp sensor, but I hope Canon remembers the competition and doesn’t cripple this camera because the A7 III although a little dated now but even still it’s a fantastic camera and the A7 IV is surely only around the corner.

I'm with you on this one, much of my anticipation is based on imagined specs that have not been announced or an imaginary absence of any major crippling. If the R6 does not record video to both card slots, has a recording limit, or does not offer an XLR audio module I will sit out the rest of the year and possibly the next two years and just keep my current setup. Canon will lose my business for RF lenses, at least 1 R mount camera body, and a C200 purchase. I hope this is the year I consolidate my entire video and photography business around Canon, but so far I've been waiting for 4yrs to do that.

 

[Maximilian]

I don't see that. To the opposite. Canon used its 18 MP APS_C sensor in about 15 different camera bodies from Rebels to 7D to EOS M models. And the 6D II sensor also appeared in EOS RP and the 5D IV sensor also used in EOS R. etc. etc.

But only after it became OLD in its APS-C prime model, didn‘t it?
Not at same time, but after the prime model had some time in the market.
And similar with the FF sensors.

 

[padam]

I am looking forward to the R6 it is high on my Wishlist already. I have no problem with the 20mp sensor, but I hope Canon remembers the competition and doesn’t cripple this camera because the A7 III although a little dated now but even still it’s a fantastic camera and the A7 IV is surely only around the corner.

It is tricky, because Canon is very much looking at its own product range as well for what they can give in order not to cannibalise the other models and the lower-cost models are known to be compromised in some way or another.

Well, it is safe to say that the IBIS system is going to be superior, the EVF and fully articulating screen are going to be superior (with full touch functionality) the adaptability is also superior, there is the colour science, and no Sony camera shoots 4k60p at this point, so that is a big advantage. Still image frame rate looks good, if it is with tracking AF included. The battery might be the same LP-E6NH as the EOS R5, so roughly equal to the Sony.

Summarising the main question marks:
FF 4k - is it going to be left out for completely for processing power, heat or just marketing purposes and shoot 4k at any frame rate with an APS-H crop (like the 1DX Mark II)? Maybe 4k30p is uncropped and 4k60p is cropped?
1080p 120fps - will have AF disabled, like the 90D?
Internal codecs - are they going to be 8-bit 4:2:0 H.264 (UHD) only? Is it going to be IPB only, like every lower class Canon camera?
Dynamic range and Canon Log - is it going to be omitted (like on the 1DX Mark II) to go aggressive on pricing, or are they going to be retained and with a higher price tag?

So, you agree with me, which is that this is "not exactly a continuation of the 6D line." It's a body for "both photo and video" ---- though if we're being honest, the only major innovation in this body (IBIS) pertains mostly to video, and the major limitation of this body (mp) pertains mostly to photo.

I.e., I believe I'm still correct.

Nope. They have purposely named the cameras R5 and R6.
And the other big 'innovation' is that it has dual card slots, which means finally you can have dual card slots on a lower-level camera, and utilise it on weddings. That is purely there for stills, because it won't dual record video. Lower megapixel count can also means superior low-light focusing. And it shoots much much faster which was a complaint on their previous FF mirrorless cameras.
So yes, it is very much an improvement for stills.

 

[slclick]

We can put away that thought for good, it is a different sensor, and it is understandable considering one is 2000-2500$ and the other is 6500$.

It also won't make the 1DXIII obsolete in any way like some people thought (don't buy the 1DXIII and wait for mirrorless), since it is the only Canon camera to shoot RAW video (5.5k) at 60fps, the R5 will only do it in 8k30p and with also more rolling shutter, so it is actually less high-end in some ways, and weirdly, the DSLR is still better for video in several aspects.

I disagree with where you are coming from, + your logic is suspect....there is SO much more to the 1DX3 than the sensor which determines cost. Asking if there is a version of the 20mp sensor with a major aspect of it's properties is pretty realistic.

 

[padam]

I disagree with where you are coming from, + your logic is suspect....there is SO much more to the 1DX3 than the sensor which determines cost. Asking if there is a version of the 20mp sensor with a major aspect of it's properties is pretty realistic.

I don't disagree that there is more to the 1DX3, of course there is.
But we are arguing about something that has been stated as a fact (and also very illogical, knowing how Canon designs its products, it is actually Their logic), but keep on going, when it turns out to be the case and people got proven wrong, people just go silent on these little details to skip admitting it.

The summary is that yes, they they Could do a mirrorless camera with a 1DX3 sensor adjusted for RF-mount and all its features. But this camera is not it.

 

[slclick]

I don't disagree that there is more to the 1DX3, of course there is.
But we are arguing about something that has been stated as a fact (and also very illogical, knowing how Canon designs its products, it is actually Their logic), but keep on going, when it turns out to be the case and people got proven wrong, people just go silent on these little details to skip admitting it.

The summary is that yes, they they Could do a mirrorless camera with a 1DX3 sensor adjusted for RF-mount and all its features. But this camera is not it.

OMFG, you for the 2nd time skipped right past my point. It was about the anti aliasing remember? That change makes it a different sensor. Reading comprehension gets really annoying when it takes multiple posts to convey a simple meaning.