The Canon EOS R6 is still scheduled to be announced in May [CR2]

[padam]

OMFG, you for the 2nd time skipped right past my point. It was about the anti aliasing remember? That change makes it a different sensor. Reading comprehension gets really annoying when it takes multiple posts to convey a simple meaning.

There is no point in changing the AA filter, it has been improved on the 1DX3 compared to its predecessor so why would they not use it, only the micro lenses need to be rearranged for mirrorless if they want to re-use it.
But the point it, for some weird reason, you are arguing about something stated as a fact in the main article of this thread, similar MP count, different sensors.
While it is nice to dream about things but the reality that is is a completely different class camera and if they put a 1DX3 sensor variant in a mirrorless camera (with whatever type of AA filter), it will be named with either an X or a 1 and with a pricetag to match as well.

Hint: the 6D Mark 1 was still in production when the 1DX Mark II came out. They are both 20MP FF sensors, in fact the 5472x3648 pixel count is exactly the same on both cameras.
Are they related in any way besides being 20MP? Nope.

 

[hippase]

I agree with Tony Northrup that it can be a good A7III competitor. For me it's more interesting than the R5 and than the R with the dual card slot. The real question is, is there a crop in 4k video ? And is there the dual pixel AF active in all video modes ? I didnt read anything on that in the rumors but if it is it could be really interesting and correct the limitations of the Eos R.

 

[tomri]

When I go mirrorless from my Eos 6d I definitely want to see an improvement in the sensor as well. So if the 20mpix one in the R6 is not much better in DR, then this will be a non buy for me. Since the R5 will likely be very expensive it could mean another long wait or jumping system. But lets hope it comes differently...

 

[Utonagan]

I hope there will be some semblance of balance with the R6. There is an unhealthy addiction to video features and promotion. A very short on-line press conf for the R5 and all they talked about for a few seconds are the R5 video specs and to be honest it sounded more like an ad for Red 8k cameras.
I'm much more interested in the R6 and not so much interest in the M50 mk2. Also we still don't have a true successor for the 7dmk2 although the R6 rumored specs do seem to get close all be it at full frame. I don't see the R6 to be a competitor to the Sony A73. The R6 more along the lines of a what the Nikon D780 should have been. Broader range than an A73, D780, or Z6.
My main concern will be the image processing in camera and if Canon intend to force push aspects boosting without the ability to shut it off like what Sony and Nikon does. Far too much software processing then baking that into the image files isn't a good idea.
It would be nice if the R6 was somewhat of a smaller Nikon D5.

 

[picperfect]

. Lower megapixel count can also means superior low-light focusing.

please explain. what? how exactly? i call it total BS.

 

[picperfect]

There is an unhealthy addiction to video features and promotion.

very much so.

not interested in either R5 nor R6. stills only. and proud of it. f*ck "video in *every camera*".

 

[padam]

please explain. what? how exactly? i call it total BS.

If the mirrorless camera is focusing with a sensor that has lower noise (higher sensitivity), the sensor has more room to temporarily increase the brightness in the focused area, e.g. let the camera "see" the contrast more clearly when it is focusing.
It is like calling a faster lens focusing better in low light total BS lol - as it helps the exact same way - except having a faster lens is an advantage for both a DSLR and a mirrorless camera in low-light.
Also true for video AF as well (but in that case, it cannot increase the brightness).

 

[picperfect]

If the mirrorless camera is focusing with a sensor that has lower noise (higher sensitivity), the sensor has more room to temporarily increase the brightness in the focused area,

what? 1. lower noise = speculation. 2. temporarily increase brightness (while focusding)? never heard if that. solid links/evidence?

 

[yeahright]

If the mirrorless camera is focusing with a sensor that has lower noise (higher sensitivity), the sensor has more room to temporarily increase the brightness in the focused area, e.g. let the camera "see" the contrast more clearly when it is focusing.
It is like calling a faster lens focusing better in low light total BS lol - as it helps the exact same way - except having a faster lens is an advantage for both a DSLR and a mirrorless camera in low-light.
Also true for video AF as well (but in that case, it cannot increase the brightness).

why should the R6 noise over a certain area on the sensor be better than the R5 noise over the same area?

 

[padam]

what? 1. lower noise = speculation. 2. temporarily increase brightness (while focusding)? never heard if that. solid links/evidence?

I guess you haven't used a Canon mirrorless camera, so you are commenting on something that you don't have any experience whatsoever.

 

[padam]

i useCanon MILCs for more than 5 years now. lol. RP is not good enough. not nearly.

Then I don't understand as you can see what it does when it focuses in low light, it brightens it up temporarily in Single Shot. The faster the lens aperture and the better high ISO the camera has, it sees a cleaner image and it focuses easier, so the conditions where it needs an AF assist lamp are less. Again it depends on many factors, but having a sensor that has lower high ISO noise when viewing on the LCD or EVF certainly helps.
Because the lenses have heavy vignetting wide-open, the central area will have the best chance of getting focus.

 

[SteveC]

I think they are going to wait and see what mirrorless adoption looks like prior to committing to a 5D Mark V. And if they do release one I think it would be with an RF mount so you get the best of both worlds...OVF with RF mount and EF backwards compatibility with the adapter. Of course they did just announce their latest Cinema camera and it is still just EF or PL mount so maybe there is a bit of EF life left.

If they do this, it cannot be a DSLR. The R lenses would have to sit where the mirror would otherwise go.

That would make it a 5D Mark V mirrorless, which would basically make it an R5

 

[Architect1776]

While I don't think there is an absolute sweet spot per se, the R5 45MP sensor is much more of a sweet spot for the R system itself, the majority of the native lenses can resolve far beyond that resolution as you can see on opticallimits, for instance. (And it is still tracks at 12fps mechanical, so it does not hurt speed either)
Since all pixels on the sensor are have the DPAF capability, it might also have its advantages in terms of tracking AF, subject recognition, etc. depending on how the sensor is being utilised in that state.

I guess sweet is meant as file size vs resolution.

 

[Michael Clark]

I still wonder what performance that 20 MP sensor will deliver...
If it's not so well at high ISO this body still gets me puzzeled.

I predicted a few days ago that it would be the 1D X Mark II sensor, which isn't half bad in low light.

Well if it isn't the 1DX III sensor, it has to be the 1DX II one, right? But if they had to reuse a sensor, why not just the 5D IV one? That already has the redesigned micro lenses and everything.

The 5D IV sensor may be more expensive to produce than the 1D X II, or maybe they've already got a huge stock of the 1D X II sensors already lying around?

It also takes longer to read out and process the data from a 30+ MP sensor than from a 20 MP sensor.

No that would cost too much money. If you want to minimize the costs and maximize profit margins in your manufacturing process, then you use the same parts in as many devices as possible. The 1DX3 is what it is not because of it's sensor. It's everything else around the sensor. Particularly it's body, power, and insanity level AF system, which the R6 wont have anything like.

The only apparent difference between the sensor in the 1D X Mark II and 1D X Mark III is the low pass/anti-aliasing filter in front of it. Maybe they've already got a bunch of the older filters?

 

[Architect1776]

I think in your case then Canon expects you to get the RP or R for now and maybe an as yet unannounced R8 (see my completely speculatory model list below) or the R5 sometime in the future:

R1 - 1DX Mirrorless Replacement
R5 - 5D Replacement
R5S - 5DS Replacement
R6 - Video focused body but with less resolution to protect the R5
R8 - Entry level FF Canon Mirrorless (aka RP Mark II)

I absolutely need IBIS.
Guess what?
RP and R do not have IBIS, You are so clueless what I need or want so do not pretend to tell me what I need or want as if you are all knowing. I did not ask for your opinion as to what I want thus refrain from telling me what I want.

 

[Treyarnon]

There is no point in changing the AA filter, it has been improved on the 1DX3 compared to its predecessor so why would they not use it, only the micro lenses need to be rearranged for mirrorless if they want to re-use it.

Thank you - that makes a lot of sense. For some reason I forgot the 1DX3 has a mirror!

 

[Treyarnon]

The current rumors for the R5 and R6 are making them sound very video centric. The two main questions in my mind are:

1) The R5 sounds like a fantastic camera, but will the price be pumped up by the video specs?

2) The R6 sound like it might be around the right price point, but will the stills image quality be crippled by the video specs?

As as stills shooter, I wonder if either of these cameras will be for me... Time will of course tell.

 

[Michael Clark]

I agree, I don't see where this camera fits in the Canon lineup UNLESS the target is for great low light performance and / or video. The 20mp makes no sense to me after seeing the 32mp APS-C sensors in the 90d & M6 II. I also don't see why they would repurpose an old sensor design in the new R body line at this point. I made sense with the R & RP as transitional cameras, but not in the "new" R family. Be interesting to see if there some unique aspect of this camera or if was just designed to hit a price point. Time will tell.

It's designed to hit a price point.

Canon has stated that the R and RP were more-or-less place holders. Just to get a MILC out into the market in order to start building up a library of glass. Doesn't seem like we will see second iterations of those bodies/models

They haven't really said that directly, but everyone else has said it for them.

My thoughts on the sensor:
1DX III sensor, different (inferior) low-pass filter or an updated 1DX II sensor.

The 1D X Mark III sensor is pretty much the 1D X Mark II sensor with an upgraded low-pass filter.

Assuming this *rumour* is accurate....
Does anyone know why Canon might design two different 20MP FF sensors at practically the same time? What will one sensor do that the other cannot I wonder?
I do have to say - if Canon are designing a new sensor specifically for the R6 (rather than using an existing part), I am rather puzzelled why go for 20MP?? Upper 20's to lower 30's would make much more sense to me.

Who said they designed a new sensor for it? Maybe they're reusing the 1D X Mark II sensor/low-pass filter?

How about using the 1DX3 sensor but with AA changes?

a/k/a the 1D X Mark II sensor? The only significant difference between the two seems to be the low-pass filter.

But it still does not make sense from that standpoint. Every single other camera maker's entry level FF non video oriented body has higher MP sensors typically between 24MP and 36MP. Entry level shooters are probably the largest group that cares about sensor resolution. Every YouTubber will tell those entry level shooters to stay away from the R6 because of it's "low" resolution not to mention the bar to entry for Canon mirrorless FF is a lot more expensive than it used to be due to RF lens costs.

Well, if they were to use the 1D X Mark II sensor, with its "fuzzier" low-pass filter, then the low cost RF lenses that are supposed to come out later this year make a lot more sense, since a 20 MP sensor with a fairly strong AA filter doesn't need the razor-sharp high-dollar RF glass.

 

[Michael Clark]

I 100% agree with you on the actual functional difference between 20MP and 24MP....the problem once again will be the marketing. There is no way Canon will live down a 20MP sensor in a non video oriented body. Marketing hype is a real thing...especially at these price points. Now one other scenario that would make perfect sense is simply that the Canon Rumor is wrong and the sensor is indeed 24 or more MP.

YouTubbers were even complaining about 20MP in the 1DXIII a body which is well understood and for a niche that is well known; and not one of them will probably ever own it or shoot a sporting event yet they still complained. Imagine if this thing releases as anything but video focused with a 20MP sensor.

Think back to when the 6D came out. Wasn't it the first Canon FF body to have built-in WiFi and GPS? It was introduced in 2012, later in the the same year that the 1D X and the 5D Mark III were offered without either of those functions built-in. They required (expensive!) add-on modules to have WiFi or GPS functionality.

Now, fast forward back to to 2020.

What if the R6 comes out as the first body with a fully integrated built-in user interface with Canon's new cloud-based photo sharing application? 20 MP may be the sweet spot for file size in that scenario.

Just as built-in WiFi and GPS made a lot of entry level buyers think they were getting something they really valued that the 5DIII and 1D X buyers were not getting in 2012, maybe Canon thinks this feature will resonate with younger, entry level buyers who want their cameras to be more "connected" so they can share images instantly like they've always been able to do with their phones?

 

[Michael Clark]

YouTubbers were even complaining about 20MP in the 1DXIII a body which is well understood and for a niche that is well known; and not one of them will probably ever own it or shoot a sporting event yet they still complained. Imagine if this thing releases as anything but video focused with a 20MP sensor.

They weren't really complaining, they were just being fanboys and trying to make anything they will never be able to afford look bad when compared to their toys.