The Perfect Sensor

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Personally, I think the more minimal range is closer to what the eye sees,

YOu'd be surprised. For the most part that is not the remotely the case.

so I agree that the first photo of yours doesn't look quite right. Not enough contrast. And that is why the more limited DR of the Canon sensor doesn't bother me. Contrast is more important in both art and photography than capturing many subtle gradations of light and dark, in my opinion (and may actually be closer to what the eye sees).

1. you can apply some more local contrast and tone mapping
2. high DR displays should be here by 2018 in full force

 

[mb66energy]

So, let's fast forward 10+ years to where we have achieved the perfect sensor. It can do the following:

-Record nearly infinite numbers of photons and scale to whatever pixels you want
-Expose and record every detail in any light over 0.01 LUX
-Record in 256-bits with DR surpassing anything our own eyes can even see
-Correct any and all optical defects in any and all lenses

So...if I had this sensor, you know what I would be?
BORED.
[...]

There is a lot truth in your idea about a perfect sensor and its influence to photographic ART.

For me the perfect sensor is user exchangeable. IMO lenses stay. Bodies user interface should be changed not too much ... But having e.g. 4 exchangeable sensors for 2 identical bodies would be really welcome.

I think about a
12 MPix color sensor (ISO 200 - 6400 +)
48 Mpix color sensor (ISO 50-1600 +)
24 Mpix B/W sensor (ISO 400-25600 +)
each sensor coming with its corresponding processor.

But I think we will never see that ...

 

[mb66energy]

Personally, I think the more minimal range is closer to what the eye sees,

YOu'd be surprised. For the most part that is not the remotely the case.

so I agree that the first photo of yours doesn't look quite right. Not enough contrast. And that is why the more limited DR of the Canon sensor doesn't bother me. Contrast is more important in both art and photography than capturing many subtle gradations of light and dark, in my opinion (and may actually be closer to what the eye sees).

1. you can apply some more local contrast and tone mapping
2. high DR displays should be here by 2018 in full force

Hopefully and I am shure about that - I have seen LGs OLED TVs in some shops @ 5000€ - very expensive for a 50 inch screen but ... the quality is absolutely stunning just in the well lit room. I think a DR of 16 or 18 stops is easily achievable - it depends no longer on the screen tech but the related electronics. That combined with UHD and we can see the images from 2005 the first time on a matching display system in terms of resolution and DR.

@dak723
The system eye-brain has an overall DR of 20 stops but it uses indeed two sensor matrices with color (daylight) and b/w (night) sensors and the iris for fast response. But I think a DR of 10 or 11 bits is a realistic number for one view with same "sensor matrix" and fixed iris. With larger monitors and more DR it might be interesting to capture scenes just at higher DR - let your eye stroll throu the image and see more detail after adaption. Might be a new way of artistic expression.

A simple example for the vast range of sensibility of our eyes:
On a sunny day, 12 o'clock you have roughly 1000 Watts of incident light power per square meter.
Use a simple micro LED torch with a 5mm standard white led. It delivers 20 Milliwatts and you can easily see things on a 20 square meter area (a small room's walls, after adaption). Now you have only 1 Milliwatt per square meter.
The ration between them is 1000000:1 ...

 

[Lawliet]

The unconstrained mind is not creative.

Tell that anybody who does CGI - physics, and even logic, are purely optional, yet people still create great work

 

[LovePhotography]

I, for one, would welcome the perfect sensor. With the world getting crazier and me getting older, I'd like to be able to go on a super high speed internt, or buy a thumb drive of perfect eagle eye recreation of the Louve, Vatican, K2, underwater, the moon, and whatever else I'd like to see from a 70' 4k resolution TV monitor. You want to go all creative on it in post processing, go for it. But, first give me the option of perfection.
To compare, that's like saying you prefer old cassettes without Dolby because you like the hissing sound.

 

[mackguyver]

OMG, the levels of philosophical BS predicting the detriment of creativity brought on by better tools is amazing.

art is the product of the artist and their tools, expanding either one increases the possibilities.

+1

(not a thread worthy of more than these words)

Okay, I'll admit it - I was trying to exaggerate all of the theoretical BS posted around here to the greatest extreme possible. Given that I'm never sarcastic, I'm sure no one expected that

At least we've got lots of rumors to talk about these days, but I was curious to see how people would respond to this post...

 

[surapon]

So, let's fast forward 10+ years to where we have achieved the perfect sensor. It can do the following:

-Record nearly infinite numbers of photons and scale to whatever pixels you want
-Expose and record every detail in any light over 0.01 LUX
-Record in 256-bits with DR surpassing anything our own eyes can even see
-Correct any and all optical defects in any and all lenses

So...if I had this sensor, you know what I would be?
BORED.

Why? Because photos would look just like real life and be limited only by our own eyes.

Photos are an interpretation of reality, not reality. Light and shadows give photos depth and meaning, which is why so many HDR photos are just dull and flat. The limitations of film are why so many film photos are better than most digital photos in all regards other than sharpness.

The unconstrained mind is not creative.

-Jack Handy
(these are my Deep Thoughts for the week)

Dear Friend Mr. Mackguyver.
From Your great Imaginative words " So, let's fast forward 10+ years to where we have achieved the perfect sensor. It ( I ) can do the following:"
Yes, Next 10 Years , I will be 75 Years Old man with Old Heart
1) I must have 2 Transplant of New Young Eyes to see the Perfected Photos which created by the Perfected Sensor.
2) I must have a new Heart Transplant for long photographic trip with the new camera with New Perfected Sensor---With out died because of heart attack---For Long Walk and -----
3) I might require a Young, Strong and Beautiful Wife to help me carry the heavy weight Lenses---No , New DSLR Canon EOS-M MK VI are so small like the Match Box---I do not worry about Weigh of Camera Any more.
4) my NEW WHEELCHAIR ( When I am 75) can go any where and fly like hovercraft.
BTW, I forget the last requirement
5) one of my body part must need a new transplant too---Because of new Young, Strong and beautiful wife---Ha, Ha, Ha---My Two legs, Which I need to walk fast , to catch up with her walking speed.----NO, I not Dirty old man, But Still sexy Old Man.
Just want to have FUN, and Talk with you, Sir.
Have a great work week.
Surapon

 

[mackguyver]

Dear Friend Mr. Mackguyver.
From Your great Imaginative words " So, let's fast forward 10+ years to where we have achieved the perfect sensor. It ( I ) can do the following:"
Yes, Next 10 Years , I will be 75 Years Old man with Old Heart
1) I must have 2 Transplant of New Young Eyes to see the Perfected Photos which created by the Perfected Sensor.
2) I must have a new Heart Transplant for long photographic trip with the new camera with New Perfected Sensor---With out died because of heart attack---For Long Walk and -----
3) I might require a Young, Strong and Beautiful Wife to help me carry the heavy weight Lenses---No , New DSLR Canon EOS-M MK VI are so small like the Match Box---I do not worry about Weigh of Camera Any more.
4) my NEW WHEELCHAIR ( When I am 75) can go any where and fly like hovercraft.
BTW, I forget the last requirement
5) one of my body part must need a new transplant too---Because of new Young, Strong and beautiful wife---Ha, Ha, Ha---My Two legs, Which I need to walk fast , to catch up with her walking speed.----NO, I not Dirty old man, But Still sexy Old Man.
Just want to have FUN, and Talk with you, Sir.
Have a great work week.
Surapon

Surapon, thank you for your funny post and for making me smile - as always! I'm feeling very old today (at 37) with many serious joint problems that will likely require surgical replacement, so thank you for the laugh

 

[psolberg]

interesting points. I agree with those that are in the "I'll take the options over the restriction" camp. Basically I see no reason why if you're given a choice, and the choice costs the same, you'd chose the one that does less. If you don't want to shot a certain look just make the software give it the look you want.

 

[Canonicon]

i don´t expect a perfect sensor.
I would be happy with a better sensor that beats Sonikons at high and low ISO.

8)

 

[Canonicon]

With proper technique there is virtually nothing that can't be done with the current sensors. The 'low ISO read noise' of the current sensors is irrelevant to the vast majority of users, from those who just don't know and don't care to those skilled, who's techniques result in the same view.

What proper technique is this?

ETTR or do you speak about some more advanced stuff?

Anyway i don´t see how that helps getting Canon sensors to beat Sony sensors.

Maybe if the Sonyikon guy has used bad technique.... but then.. what will that proof.

And why should i hoop to the loops when i can get it simple and easy?
Only to make a point. To make Sony sensor advancements look less important in internet discussions?

You are defending worse technology against better technology.
That´s the simple fact here.

That´s normaly a bad joke on a geek forums like CR. ;D

 

[AcutancePhotography]

i don´t expect a perfect sensor.
I would be happy with a better sensor that beats Sonikons at high and low ISO.

8)

Why does it have to be a competition?

 

[Canonicon]

i don´t expect a perfect sensor.
I would be happy with a better sensor that beats Sonikons at high and low ISO.

8)

Why does it have to be a competition?

Because it is?

The Sonys EXMOR seems to be best 35mm sensor so it´s only normal to look at him as reference for future Canon sensors.

At least when you expect Canon to improve sensor performance in the future and not only DPAF.

When i found better film in the past i bought it, with sensors is unfortunately not that easy.

Thought back then i had long discussions about the best film too. ;D