The Truth about Microadjust

[acoll123]

I micro-adjusted all of my lenses on my two bodies (5d mk II and 7D). I didn't make any adjustments at all to the longer lenses (70-200/2.8, 85/1.2 and 24-105/4.0) but did make adjustments to the short lenses (50/1.2 and 16-35/2.8). Is this just a coincidence or is it normal for the shorter lenses to need more adjustment? I have not yet taken any sample images with the adjusted lenses - maybe tomorrow - to see if there is a noticeable difference.

I used the Moire interference patterns method found at NorthlightImages:

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/cameras/1ds3_af_micoadjustment.html

 

[Admin US West]

I micro-adjusted all of my lenses on my two bodies (5d mk II and 7D). I didn't make any adjustments at all to the longer lenses (70-200/2.8, 85/1.2 and 24-105/4.0) but did make adjustments to the short lenses (50/1.2 and 16-35/2.8). Is this just a coincidence or is it normal for the shorter lenses to need more adjustment? I have not yet taken any sample images with the adjusted lenses - maybe tomorrow - to see if there is a noticeable difference.

I used the Moire interference patterns method found at NorthlightImages:

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/cameras/1ds3_af_micoadjustment.html

Its normal for wider aperture lenses to need adjustment, because they have a shallow depth of field and any issues are seen more easily then a lens with a narrow depth of field. Many shorter lenses tend to have wide apertures.

 

[Loswr]

Is this just a coincidence or is it normal for the shorter lenses to need more adjustment? I have not yet taken any sample images with the adjusted lenses - maybe tomorrow - to see if there is a noticeable difference.

As scalesusa says, wide aperture (fast) lenses tend to need adjustment more than narrow aperture (slow) lenses, because the latter have a deeper DoF which masks the effect of inaccurate focus. Like slow lenses, wide angle lenses have deeper DoF, so in theory should be less in need of microadjustment.

But, microadjusting wide angle lenses is more challenging than longer lenses, and more prone to error. In part, this is because the adjustment is usually performed at a fixed ratio to the focal length (LensAlign suggests 25x, Chuck Westfall suggests 50x). 25 times 35mm = ~34 inches, which is pretty close, quite likely closer than you're usually going to use the lens. The other reason it's challenging is that because of that close distance, the process is more affected by an imperfect alignment of the camera and the focus target. Even though the DoF is the same if the aperture is the same (e.g. 35mm f/2.8 has the same DoF as 200mm f/2.8 at 25 times the respective focal lengths), at the closer distance with the wide lens, the angular difference of a misaligned target has a bigger impact. That's why the better commercial adjustment tools have features that allow you to accurately align the camera to the target (something the on-screen moire pattern lacks).

 

[prestonpalmer]

fantastic article. I HATE when people tell me their lens is "soft" ARGH!

 

[K3nt]

I agree with you preston. Sounds wrong.
Now if someone would just compile the info in this thread into a microadjustment guide and make it sticky.
Personnally I'd like to see a tutorial on how it's done, preferrably using a Mac. What software and tools are needed (if any) and examples adjusted / not adjusted lenses.

anyone?

 

[ronin8600]

Now if someone would just compile the info in this thread into a microadjustment guide and make it sticky.
Personnally I'd like to see a tutorial on how it's done, preferrably using a Mac. What software and tools are needed (if any) and examples adjusted / not adjusted lenses.

anyone?

I use a tool called lens align pro which I highly recommend.

Below is a link to tutorials and videos on using the lens align product
http://www.mtdhelp.com/kb/lensalign-how-to/documentation-tools-and-resources

 

[skitron]

All I can say is I just bought a 60d and three different lens from three different manufacturers and every one of them front focuses the same degree on this body. I will say that the Canon 100mm f/2.8 L macro has a truly spectacular front focus 8) an amazing lens indeed. So every piece of gear is going back where it came from. The naysayers need to realize that I bought this stuff because I thought it would work out, not so I could just come here to bash it. however, it did not work out. The bottom line is every single camera from 7d up has it and they don't put it on their pro offerings as a sales gimmick. After thinking it thru, it seems the reason they dropped it on the 60d may have to do with the plastic body. It may simply have too much flex and too much thermal expansion for microadjust to even be effective, meaning you could probably dial it in and then as soon as you hang a heavy lens on it or take it in the hot sun it's off again.

 

[Loswr]

After thinking it thru, it seems the reason they dropped it on the 60d may have to do with the plastic body. It may simply have too much flex and too much thermal expansion for microadjust to even be effective, meaning you could probably dial it in and then as soon as you hang a heavy lens on it or take it in the hot sun it's off again.

Actually, I think a little more thinking might be in order. The thermal coefficient of expansion for the 60D's 'plastic' body (actually, glass fiber-reinforced polycarbonate) is 21.5 10-6 m/m K, and the value for the underlying aluminum frame of the 60D is very close to that (22.2 10-6 m/m K). The expansion coefficient for the 'metal' bodies (actually, magnesuim alloy) of the higher-end cameras is in the range of 25-27 10-6 m/m K, depending on the other metals in the alloy. So, if anything, the 60D will expand/contract less in response to temperature changes than camera bodies with the microadjust feature.

IMO, Canon left AMFA out of the 60D purely as way to discriminate the 60D from higher end models, and more clearly discriminate four lines of camera bodies (which the 50D had started to blur). Thus in the current lineup, AFMA is found only on the xD bodies.

 

[skitron]

Actually, I think a little more thinking might be in order.

Well actually some hard data in terms of the coefficients rather than more speculation (which I admit I did), which I am pleasantly surprised anybody has access to!

So, if anything, the 60D will expand/contract less in response to temperature changes than camera bodies with the microadjust feature.

IMO, Canon left AMFA out of the 60D purely as way to discriminate the 60D from higher end models, and more clearly discriminate four lines of camera bodies (which the 50D had started to blur). Thus in the current lineup, AFMA is found only on the xD bodies.

This makes it even more frustrating, knowing it isn't a mechanical constraint and they really did just dumb it down to "protect sales". I got news for them though, all it did was run me off to Nikon. Do they really think people are going to buy this thing and then get bait-N-switched into a 7d when they find out their shiney new L lens take crap pictures with this body??? "Oh, you need to move up to a 7d body if you want your pictures to actually be in focus with your $1200 lens."

And you know the REALLY stupid part? I would have chosen the 7d FIRST except they apparently dumbed IT down with lack of manual audio levels to protect 5d sales. Of well, they can enjoy their returns from the dealer since they all went back as "defective". A TOTALLY HORRIBLE experience with Canon here...and sadly it was sooo close to being very good experience and completely preventable with a stem of firmware that they already have deployed elsewhere.

 

[Loswr]

This makes it even more frustrating, knowing it isn't a mechanical constraint and they really did just dumb it down to "protect sales". I got news for them though, all it did was run me off to Nikon.

Leaving AFMA out of the 60D almost has to be a marketing decision - there's no mechanical reason for it, and since the 'feature' exists purely in the firmware and was already included in other bodies, there would be no real cost to include it in the 60D.

Unfortunately, it's pretty unlikely that Canon's marketing executives will get canned over your defection to Nikon.

Especially since, at least based on Amazon's figures, the 60D is currently the #2 selling dSLR (yes, a Nikon is in the top slot and in the #3 slot, but those are sub-$1K entry-level bodies, and the 60D without a lens is in the #4 slot, indicating a strong possibility that adding the body only and kit versions of the 60D, it would be the current bestseller). However you interpret the numbers, 60D sales are very strong.

The other consideration is that you're not really buying a camera, you're buying a system. Chances are, whatever body you get, you'll replace it relatively soon...at least, a lot sooner than the lenses you buy. So, IMO the thing to do is look at the lenses available for each system, and that's where you put your money. Lenses are why I went with Canon in the first place.

Do they really think people are going to buy this thing and then get bait-N-switched into a 7d when they find out their shiney new L lens take crap pictures with this body??? "Oh, you need to move up to a 7d body if you want your pictures to actually be in focus with your $1200 lens."

Sure, why not? Or, more likely, most people with a 60D won't even notice, because they're using it with a lenses like the 18-135mm it's bundled with, or the 15-85mm, etc., i.e. slow lenses with deep enough DoF to mask a slight misfocusing.

Also, do keep in mind that you can send body and lenses into Canon for them to adjust them, for free under warranty.

And you know the REALLY stupid part? I would have chosen the 7d FIRST except they apparently dumbed IT down with lack of manual audio levels to protect 5d sales.

History lesson: When the 7D was released, the 5DII did not offer manual audio gain either. That was added with Firmware 2.0.3/2.0.4 about 7.5 months after the 7D came out (along with a 24 fps mode, which the 7D already had). The 7D also offers an intermediate HD resolution (720p) with a fast frame rate (60 fps) that was not and still is not available on the 5DII (but is on the 1D IV). In theory, Canon could add manual audio control to the 7D via a firmware update, as they did for the 5DII. Every Canon body released after the feature was added to the 5DII, including the Rebels (T2i and T3i) have the feature.

 

[skitron]

Unfortunately, it's pretty unlikely that Canon's marketing executives will get canned over your defection to Nikon.

LOL, I have no illusions of that, in fact it appears to be very well established through out the web that they could not care less about individual customers as a matter of culture and policy. I suppose I can't blame them too much being in a volume oriented business.

Sure, why not? Or, more likely, most people with a 60D won't even notice, because they're using it with a lenses like the 18-135mm it's bundled with, or the 15-85mm, etc., i.e. slow lenses with deep enough DoF to mask a slight misfocusing.

I agree with the reason why most would not notice. But since the 60d is supposed to be a sort of crossing point between the grade levels, they should have enough sense to know people are going to be putting fast Ls on a fair number of them. And that's when the "fun" begins.

Also, do keep in mind that you can send body and lenses into Canon for them to adjust them, for free under warranty.

I have no first hand experience but see a bunch of reports that they're not very good, slow, etc. Do you have experience otherwise?

History lesson: When the 7D was released, the 5DII did not offer manual audio gain either. That was added with Firmware 2.0.3/2.0.4 about 7.5 months after the 7D came out (along with a 24 fps mode, which the 7D already had). The 7D also offers an intermediate HD resolution (720p) with a fast frame rate (60 fps) that was not and still is not available on the 5DII (but is on the 1D IV). In theory, Canon could add manual audio control to the 7D via a firmware update, as they did for the 5DII. Every Canon body released after the feature was added to the 5DII, including the Rebels (T2i and T3i) have the feature.

Yes I was aware of all of this. It seems like there is still plenty to differentiate the grades other than firmware features. Plus they could actually charge extra to "unlock" firmware features. Heck, I'd pay $100 for new firmware that had micro-adjust. Does that kill a 7d sale? No it doesn't. Because I'd still take the 7d over the 60d if I could pay $100 extra to "unlock" manual audio on it. So in the end, they would get more revenue for basically zero overhead cost and have minimal impact on other models.

 

[Loswr]

But since the 60d is supposed to be a sort of crossing point between the grade levels, they should have enough sense to know people are going to be putting fast Ls on a fair number of them. And that's when the "fun" begins.

Even before L lenses...the 50/1.8 has pretty shallow DoF, and is among Canon's bestselling lenses (it's #1 on Amazon, and has been for a long time). But I suppose you could put focus errors down to using a 'cheap' lens. However, there are quite a few popular fast primes that can often benefit from AMFA (50/1.4, 85/1.8, 100/2, etc.), and while not L-lens money, if you spend $400 for OOF images, you'll notice.

I have no first hand experience but see a bunch of reports that they're not very good, slow, etc. Do you have experience otherwise?

Nope...I had a backfocusing issue with my 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS lens on my T1i, but I lived with it for a couple of months (since I usually manually focus for macro shooting), then went straight to the 7D (and later added a 5DII). I use a LensAlign Pro for the adjustments.

Yes I was aware of all of this. It seems like there is still plenty to differentiate the grades other than firmware features. Plus they could actually charge extra to "unlock" firmware features. Heck, I'd pay $100 for new firmware that had micro-adjust. Does that kill a 7d sale? No it doesn't. Because I'd still take the 7d over the 60d if I could pay $100 extra to "unlock" manual audio on it. So in the end, they would get more revenue for basically zero overhead cost and have minimal impact on other models.

I agree that the firmware-sale model is a good one, although Canon would have to take some steps to prevent piracy, else they'd lose most of the possible revenue with the ease of 'sharing' a 10-15 MB file.

From a hardware perspective, there's a precedent for adding new features to older models for a fee - the locking mode dial introduced on the 60D can be retroactively added to the 7D and 5DII for $100. (Although it's not a feature I'd want personally, and I really hope they don't implement it on the 5DIII and/or 7DII).

 

[skitron]

I agree that the firmware-sale model is a good one, although Canon would have to take some steps to prevent piracy, else they'd lose most of the possible revenue with the ease of 'sharing' a 10-15 MB file.

Actually this should be the easy part for them. Canon has at their disposal the very best protection scheme in existence, at zero cost no less, in the simple fact that a camera body is an ideal dongle. They already use hard encryption on their code (i.e. the Magic Lantern delima trying to hack the 7d firmware) and the bodies already have serial numbers, presumably at the hardware level. The only fly in the ointment would be if the serial number is stored in accessible memory. All they have to do is serialize the firmware so it only runs on the body that has the same serial number. Simple as it is, the dongle scheme is standard practice in other industries and it works well.

 

[Bruce Photography]

This is not a direct reply to anyone's submission but I'd like to get my 2 cents in because I have bought a great deal of Canon equipment for a number of years and here are my two points. First there are some non-Canon lenes that Canon does not offer a direct equivalent. For the 7D I seemed to have gotten a VERY good copy of the Tamron 18-270 VC that is pretty sharp at all focal lengths. Canon does'nt make this focal length. However this lens was a boat anchor until Microfocus came along and tuned up this lens nicely and easily (ProPlus from Lens Align) on my 7D as well as my 50D. I will not buy a camera again that can't be adjusted in this manner. By the way Canon would not adjust third party lenes of course.
For the second reason that is specific to the type of photography I do sometimes I want to front focus. Some birds for instance have very long and thin necks which don't give me a large enough focus target. Many times they are coming in at 45 degrees and I need to place my focus target on the body of the bird (or deer, or bear, or ...) but want I really want to do is to focus on the eyes which arn't yet in sight or arn't large enough or stable enough. I just slightly adjust my focus point forward (like on the 500mm F4 with the 1.4extender) and it comes out perfect. I'm not afraid of changing my focus point in the field if I need to for some reason - after all it is just a menu item and easily changed. This whole policy of taking away features from an already existing product line (I have the 10D, 20D, 40D, 50D, but no 60D) worries me. What other feature are they going to drop - like the joystick - oh I forgot they dropped that one too.

 

[skitron]

My father in law just received his 60d body last night and it has exactly the same front focus symptom as mine. Tried several L lens and the amount of front focus was consistent. Of course live view focus was dead on with both my 60d and his. I suspect they came from the same production run since we bought from the same reseller withing a couple of weeks, but to borrow from a very famous event and subsequent movie: "Canon, we have a problem."

So for me, I have RMA in hand and now waffling between 7d and D7000 and leaning towards the latter...but 60d is outta here and I'd tell anyone to avoid it. I will say if the 7d2 were imminent in the near future I'd go for that, but it looks to be a ways out yet.

 

[Loswr]

Tried several L lens ... now waffling between 7d and D7000 and leaning towards the latter...

What'cha gonna do with all those red-ringed lenses if you get a D7000?

 

[skitron]

Tried several L lens ... now waffling between 7d and D7000 and leaning towards the latter...

What'cha gonna do with all those red-ringed lenses if you get a D7000?

RMA the ones that I bought. Fortunately I'm starting from scratch here...the last time I was serious about this stuf was back in the film days.

 

[HughHowey]

RMA to me.

Seriously, though, I don't blame you. The focus issue on the 60D and 7D seems to be popping up everywhere. If the D7000 had been on the market over a year ago, when I bought my T2i, I probably would've gone for it instead. I think Nikon is doing a whole lot right these days, which pains me to say as a Canon owner. But this is the way of things. The technology leapfrogs. The 5D3 will eventually come out and Nikon-heads will likely drool. Some will even sell all their gear and switch sides for the umpteenth time.

When I get envious of new gear, I just go out and take some pictures. That usually makes me feel better. If I had the money, I'd probably have a Nikon and a Canon body, just so I could collect more lenses. This is a pretty sick hobby if you ask me!

 

[gmrza]

What would be interesting to understand is what percentage of lenses and bodies require any micro-adjustment. I would guess that it is likely that only those who need to do micro-adjustment tend to be vocal about the subject.

I, for one, only today got around to finally checking some of our lenses against our 7D. For the 17-40mm f/4L, 85mm f/1.2L II, and 50mm f/1.4 none needed any micro-adjustment. - I have to admit I have not bothered testing the 85mm and 50mm against the 5DmkII, as we have shot so many sharp images wide open with those lenses, that I do not have the inclination to spend the time mucking around with adjustment.

Is there any way of getting an understanding of the percentage of lenses/bodies that require any micro-adjustment?

 

[Admin US West]

What would be interesting to understand is what percentage of lenses and bodies require any micro-adjustment. I would guess that it is likely that only those who need to do micro-adjustment tend to be vocal about the subject.

I, for one, only today got around to finally checking some of our lenses against our 7D. For the 17-40mm f/4L, 85mm f/1.2L II, and 50mm f/1.4 none needed any micro-adjustment. - I have to admit I have not bothered testing the 85mm and 50mm against the 5DmkII, as we have shot so many sharp images wide open with those lenses, that I do not have the inclination to spend the time mucking around with adjustment.

Is there any way of getting an understanding of the percentage of lenses/bodies that require any micro-adjustment?

I think its a low percentage. I checked all my lenses when I bought my 5D MK II, and only my 24-105mm L could marginally benefit by a +2. I had about 8-10 lenses at the time. Since then, I have replaced some lenses with newer models, and have only found one that really needed micro adjust.

Last July, I bought a new 35mm L and as soon as I checked it out, the images were obviously fuzzy. A +2 adjustment on my 5d MK II made a huge difference. Then, I checked the lens on my 1D MK III and it took a +14 to correct it. I did not need a fancy setup, I could see the issue on my LCD at 10X. However, with the 5D MK II, I did a careful adjustment, since I was suprised at the huge difference +2 made.

Last week, I stumbled across a local deal for a used 35mm L, I checked it quickly on my 5D MK II with a few test images. The focus was pretty much right-on, but I have yet to see what happens on the 1D MK III.

If the 1D MK III is right-on as well, I'm sending my original 35mm L in for adjustment before the warranty expires.

I'm not sure that I'd want to buy a 60D, it is suppoosed to be a prosumer camera, and many will want to buy wide aperture expensive lenses for it. I expect that more of these will tend toward focus issues, but do not know how many.

With the smaller aperture consumer lenses, I doubt if many will see a problem.