There is another RF mount camera coming in 2020 [CR2]

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,233
2,101
Leaving OUT a feature doesn't help in any way. Adding features that are of benefit to photographers should signal that stills photography is still important to Canon.

You know, things like:

20 frames per second
Superb low-light performance
World class eye autofocus and animal tracking
improved EVF and bringing back the joystick that everyone missed from the EOS R.

ie exactly the things that Canon have already added on the R5. But no, photographers seem to be upset that their camera can also shoot video. YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE THE VIDEO BUTTON.

If you want to buy a camera specifically without video because you feel upset that we live in a world where cameras are now dual-purpose devices then check out Leica, I believe they have a product for you...

Thank you! Tired of this ridiculous whine.

If there was EVER a camera that offered everything a person needed and only what that person needed...well that person (not the camera) would be pretty unique and he'd be a pathetic individual, as he seems unwilling/unable to branch out into new things.
 

Keith_Reeder

I really don't mind offending trolls.
Feb 8, 2014
957
469
60
Blyth, NE England
Speaking of annoying, for maybe the 3rd time ever I decided to go over to the sony rumours site to see what they are talking about.
Holy shit is that a deep dark void! The shit people write on there, you would think it was all just preteens.
Have a look at 43rumors.com - it makes SAR look like an oasis of calm and rationality...
 

herein2020

Run | Gun Shooter
Mar 13, 2020
267
364
- codec licensing fees
- lab and field testing
- software complexity
- heat dissipation design

Maybe just a few dollars per unit when amortised across a production run, but also the intangible benefit of signalling that stills photography is still important to Canon.

You do realize that in this day and age that product would be so niche that to make up for the lack of sales they would have to charge way more for it right? Us hybrid shooters subsidize the costs for purely stills photographers by adding enough volume to camera sales that manufacturers can afford to sell at a lower profit margin per unit. I have no doubt that Canon knows more about sales numbers than anyone on this forum....and based on their internal knowledge they have decided to not only keep producing hybrid cameras but to also more heavily market and improve those video features....so clearly they know what works and what would not work from a corporate standpoint.
 
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Twinix

C100 III + R6?
May 6, 2020
103
78
Norway
C100 III with matching video specs to the R6, plus ALL-I on both cameras of course. It should of course have SDI etc like any cinema-style camera.
 
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Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
398
367
R5S with 82MPix Sensor? Just to top Sony also on this front :cool:
Seems like the most likely addition at this point. I still think the "high end" APS-c will be an upgraded replacement for the M5, but only time will tell. On the R5S, the question will be whether they just use the pixel geometry of the 90D/M6 II or decide to go for broke and top 100 MP. Given the number of bold choices in the R5, I am guessing the latter. It would make a nice replacement for the 5DSR and would make a platform to show off all the fancy R glass.
 
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BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
180
387
Leaving OUT a feature doesn't help in any way. Adding features that are of benefit to photographers should signal that stills photography is still important to Canon.

You know, things like:

20 frames per second
Superb low-light performance
World class eye autofocus and animal tracking
improved EVF and bringing back the joystick that everyone missed from the EOS R.

ie exactly the things that Canon have already added on the R5. But no, photographers seem to be upset that their camera can also shoot video. YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE THE VIDEO BUTTON.

If you want to buy a camera specifically without video because you feel upset that we live in a world where cameras are now dual-purpose devices then check out Leica, I believe they have a product for you...

As a hybrid shooter, I try to empathize with the photographers... but at this point, the whining as if Canon is doing them a disservice for adding video is annoying. Especially considering the cost of the cameras with inflation and whatever other metric you want to throw in there, are the same as yesteryear when they didn't have video.

What's even most annoying is, after watching countless R5/R6 videos, I'm starting to think these new cameras were polished as stills first cameras. The cameras are looking near flawless as photography cameras. I've seen photo demonstrations of ridiculous AutoFocus performance in near dark, watching AF extend across the full range of the screen... try that on your OVF, super accurate Animal AF that extends beyond cats, dogs and birds, ISO that is above 6400 that looks usable, they've given you HEIF files. Meanwhile, the design decisions to make sure the body is 5D level weather resistant (for photographers) is at the cost of heat management, IBIS is wonky at the corners of ultrawide lenses, pending a firmware update the R5 has left out a high frame rate mode in FHD. And yet they have whine about the fact that is even in there. The cameras are amazing for stills, can't you just be happy about that? SMH...come across as spoiled brats.
 

Nelu

1-DX Mark III, EOS R5, EOS R
CR Pro
As a hybrid shooter, I try to empathize with the photographers... but at this point, the whining as if Canon is doing them a disservice for adding video is annoying. Especially considering the cost of the cameras with inflation and whatever other metric you want to throw in there, are the same as yesteryear when they didn't have video.

What's even most annoying is, after watching countless R5/R6 videos, I'm starting to think these new cameras were polished as stills first cameras. The cameras are looking near flawless as photography cameras. I've seen photo demonstrations of ridiculous AutoFocus performance in near dark, watching AF extend across the full range of the screen... try that on your OVF, super accurate Animal AF that extends beyond cats, dogs and birds, ISO that is above 6400 that looks usable, they've given you HEIF files. Meanwhile, the design decisions to make sure the body is 5D level weather resistant (for photographers) is at the cost of heat management, IBIS is wonky at the corners of ultrawide lenses, pending a firmware update the R5 has left out a high frame rate mode in FHD. And yet they have whine about the fact that is even in there. The cameras are amazing for stills, can't you just be happy about that? SMH...come across as spoiled brats.
I could say the same thing about video shooters. They're whining about overheating of a great stills camera.
Based on the specs and on everything I've seen so far, I agree that the R5 is an awesome camera for stills and yes, I'm happy about it.
"The spoiled brats" complain about the overheating though...
 

BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
180
387
I could say the same thing about video shooters. They're whining about overheating of a great stills camera.
Based on the specs and on everything I've seen so far, I agree that the R5 is an awesome camera for stills and yes, I'm happy about it.
"The spoiled brats" complain about the overheating though...
I call out the video complainers too. Especially the ones who make like they'll need to film unlimited 8K or 4K120p. But some have legitimate gripes because they have real limitations or missing features. The photographers I'm calling out are complaining about having a feature they'll never use. Not about anything missing or any limitations for photography.
 
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tigers media

EOS M50
Mar 26, 2020
31
12
if it's just rf mount video wouldn't they just make mount adaptor ? as most video cameras have multiple mounts like PL etc or is their something drastically different that wouldn't allow that so they would have to redesign their whole video range ? Or maybe they teamed up and bought Black magics sensors ! and now have 12k to offer, so would warrant a whole new camera as all new tech and new way of doing it.
 

Nelu

1-DX Mark III, EOS R5, EOS R
CR Pro
But some have legitimate gripes because they have real limitations or missing features.
Call me crazy but if these cameras wouldn't have "real limitations or missing features" on the video side you'd call them "video cameras" not "hybrid cameras", no?
Do you really think Canon or any other manufacturer will give you every possible video feature when you buy a hybrid camera?
What about their dedicated video cameras segment? Just send them into oblivion?
 

BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
180
387
if it's just rf mount video wouldn't they just make mount adaptor ? as most video cameras have multiple mounts like PL etc or is their something drastically different that wouldn't allow that so they would have to redesign their whole video range ? Or maybe they teamed up and bought Black magics sensors ! and now have 12k to offer, so would warrant a whole new camera as all new tech and new way of doing it.
It would seem simple enough, but RF is more than just a different mount. It has additional contacts for more lens/body communication, so the internals of the body need to be upgraded as well. Then the benefits of RF are being trickled up to the cinema line. So improved AF, Control ring and IBIS may be future features of the Cinema line.
 
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BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
180
387
Call me crazy but if these cameras wouldn't have "real limitations or missing features" on the video side you'd call them "video cameras" not "hybrid cameras", no?
Do you really think Canon or any other manufacturer will give you every possible video feature when you buy a hybrid camera?
What about their dedicated video cameras segment? Just send them into oblivion?
No. I would call it the perfect hybrid camera.

I am being realistic that there are limitations in being a hybrid camera... which is why I will defend the camera from people who have unrealistic expectations whether they are photo-centric or video-centric users.
 
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davidhfe

EOS RP
Sep 9, 2015
305
456
No. I would call it the perfect hybrid camera.

I am being realistic that there are limitations in being a hybrid camera... which is why I will defend the camera from people who have unrealistic expectations whether they are photo-centric or video-centric users.

I maintain that 100% of the kvetching happening right now is because Canon built what is arguably the best stills-focused hybrid camera in existence, but they marketed it as a video-focused hybrid camera. Stills photographers are getting sticker shock along side with being forced into an EVF and want to blame video. Video folks feel like there was a bait and switch.

The reality is all I wanted in life was a Canon A7R. They have seemingly delivered that and so much more. The R5's video features are head and shoulders above what I expected when looking at the A7/A9 lineup and the stills specs are just awesome. I know we're still waiting on reviews, but based off the 1DX3 in live view, I am just really excited.
 

wockawocka

EOS R
Sep 13, 2011
852
156
I'm hoping for an EOS R mkii, a 30mp camera with all the latest improvements. It may clash with the current releases but I'd like to see it as I'm not happy with the noise in the R5 files (admittedly I've only seen the one the Fro posted for download - I expected more tbh, but I'm hard to please).
 

degos

EOS RP
Mar 20, 2015
381
320
Especially considering the cost of the cameras with inflation and whatever other metric you want to throw in there, are the same as yesteryear when they didn't have video.

So the corollary of that seems to be that if they hadn't added those features then the price in real terms should have fallen...
 

BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
180
387
So the corollary of that seems to be that if they hadn't added those features then the price in real terms should have fallen...
It's a lot more complicated than that. We can go into the socioeconomic's on how media consumption has evolved, generating a shift in how devices capture media, and how that demand has shifted manufacturers focus to research & develop the corresponding devices to follow the market. We can consider the macroeconomics of it: demand for video and hybrid is increasing, while demand for stills only is decreasing... so camera companies are shifting the supply to meet equilibrium... all while the market in general is shrinking so a need to streamline model segmentation is even more critical. We can talk about how technological advances in video capture have benefited stills technology... a point that so many others make on this forum. If video never happened, is your photography camera benefiting from the technology it has today? It's much more nuanced and so intertwined at this point, that its not so simple to postulate, "well they can just take out the video features and make it cheaper." I know some of the photography only crowd like to make this argument, but it ignores so much of the nuance and today's market realities.
 

Buck

EOS M6 Mark II
Jul 28, 2015
57
21
I would love to know how much in a cameras cost is something that is video only and how much is stills only. Obviously much of the cost is shared.
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
398
367
I would love to know how much in a cameras cost is something that is video only and how much is stills only. Obviously much of the cost is shared.
When overall volume is way down (as it is now), the cheapest camera to build (on a relative basis) will be the one that has the highest volume. Put another way, if Canon made and R5_still and and R5_video model, they would each be more expensive than the R5 because they would each have less sales volume. R&D cost is sunk cost. Manufacturing cost is VERY volume related. And BTW, cost and price are not that closely correlated, so knowing the cost won't help you with the price :).
 
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drama

EOS 90D
Sep 1, 2016
101
244
You are a more dedicated videographer than I...no way am I wasting my C200 on a wedding unless their videographer budget is in the 5 figure range. For me, the GH5 is perfect for weddings, and it has shot a 12hr wedding on two batteries (short clips, MF, turned off whenever possible). Anything better than a cell phone will make most clients happy these days.

What a horribly condescending way to talk about people who are paying four figures out of their own pocket for you to cover the biggest event in their life in the best way possible.

Enjoy only wheeling out your C200 for those shoots where you're made to feel a big boy with crew around you, I guess. It's 2020, not 1996 anymore. Imagine having a great tool and refusing to use it on any shoot because you felt it was beneath it's budget. Absolute unbridled arrogance.
 
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