This and That

[Canon Rumors]

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<strong>Canon Medium Format?

</strong>A lot of discussion around the web about whether or not the 1D X is really a unification of the flagship line. A lot of people want that big megapixel studio camera.</p>
<p>[<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon_medium_format_2ff.html">NL</a>] posted an interesting quote from an interview with Canon Japan recently.</p>
<blockquote><p>While we hear the voices, we want to see what the actual sales numbers will be for the 1D X and so determine how many 10,000s of customers we might be losing if we do not introduce a higher resolution camera and if the projected profitability of a higher resolution 24×36 mm format camera will justify development, marketing, and manufacturing investments , or if there is a sustainable market for the even greater costs of development, marketing, and manufacturing medium format cameras and lenses – an area where we have no internal expertise.</p></blockquote>
<p>A few people I have spoken to desire a flagship camera that is high megapixel. They would like performance beyond what could be had for $2500 or so in a 5D Mark III.</p>
<p>I haven’t heard of a medium format prototype within Canon, however I have heard in the past that Canon has considered purchasing a medium format company. I’ve personally never understood why they would, they are more than capable of entering the market themselves.</p>
<p><strong>Canon Mirrorless [CR1]

</strong>Will Canon target the niche market with any sort of mirrorless camera in the future? That’s what one person told me this week. There’s no interest in the company in releasing an NEX or Nikon 1 kind of mirrorless.</p>
<p><strong>B&H Deal of the day

</strong>B&H has the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/680103-USA/Canon_2751B002_EF_70_200mm_f_2_8L_IS.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296">Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II in stock and selling for $2074</a> until January 7, 2012.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[briansquibb]

Why would Canon buy a MF company?

1. Speed of product to market
2. Getting the right technicians immediately and working as a team from the off
3. Reduce market competition

 

[Sunnystate]

This is the time when, I hate to be about right, it is just silly how they can spin things and have lap dogs bark and make others to, how they hate high megapixel sensors:


Sunnystate

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2011, 12:08:29 AM »


Considering apparent money frenzy culture at Canon, I see something entirely different emerging from all recent events.
Canon is setting stage to offer ultra pro high res camera at the price point of medium format camera.
Yes we will get 40 MP camera similar like the C300, with some huge announcement at Metropolitan Museum Of Art in the photography department or something.
Be prepare, they may even produce couple Super Wide angle "Terra" lenses $20,000- $60,000 a piece.
Our expectations for entry level FF camera body will look so silly soon...
I will have to research who is really behind all of this. It does not look very Japanese to me.
Welcome to the globalism.
Logged

 

[jbwise01]

Obviously canon understands the market for each of their cameras, and the 5D3 is not intended to be a MP hog, but more of a photo-journalist camera. the size alone should indicate its intended function as a camera meant to be used on the go.

While they are plenty of reasons to have a lighter studio grade camera or a more compact landscape rig, the 5D3 is, at its soul, a mobile FF camera. Larger MP 2FF+ cameras are most surely a niche market, these cameras would most certainly be less mobile and more cumbersome for walk around shooting than the 5D3 will be.

 

[digishooter]

If Canon is not interested in MF or larger sensors, I find it odd that they already spent the time and money developing 50 and 120mpx sensors for use in such cameras.

The fact of the market is that Nikon and Sony will bring out 30-40mpx DSLR's which will eat into Canon's market share, just as the D3 and D700 did. Unfortunately, Canon's current obsession with catering to the video end of the market spectrum will likely delay updated DSLR's.

 

[J. McCabe]

The fact of the market is that Nikon and Sony will bring out 30-40mpx DSLR's which will eat into Canon's market share, just as the D3 and D700 did. Unfortunately, Canon's current obsession with catering to the video end of the market spectrum will likely delay updated DSLR's.

Possibly, Canon thinks (correctly or incorrectly) that investing in the video end of the market is more profitable than investing in the high MP end of the market.

 

[JR]

The only thing missing in Canon executive response I think is it also depend on what NIkon does in the next 6 months. Once we see a D800 and maybe a D4 sometimes in 2012 they will help set the stage on how Canon will complete or update its current line of DSLR.

I suspect the D4 to be close to the 1DX in spec, but it will be interesting to see how a D800 with high MP does in the market and how its IQ compares to the existing 21MP 5DII...

I further suspect Canon to have a few model on the shelf with very different spec depending on how competitors respond. We keep hearing about Sony and Nikon high MP machine, but we have yet to see one, so lets be patient!

 

[Loswr]

...we want to see what the actual sales numbers will be for the 1D X and so determine how many 10,000s of customers we might be losing if we do not introduce a higher resolution camera and if the projected profitability of a higher resolution 24×36 mm format camera will justify development, marketing, and manufacturing investments...

This statement, if representative of Canon's position, suggests they have not even begun development of a high-MP FF sensor. That means those hoping for a high-resolution 5DIII are going to be disappointed, either because the 5DIII will use the 1D X sensor (most likely scenario), or because if there's going to be a high MP 5DIII, it won't come for at least 1.5 years.

 

[Caps18]

I think they should come out with a medium format camera, and they could probably do it very well.

 

[KyleSTL]

I haven’t heard of a medium format prototype within Canon, however I have heard in the past that Canon has considered purchasing a medium format company. I’ve personally never understood why they would, they are more than capable of entering the market themselves.

What about purchasing an MF company because there would already be an existing mount, and a base of legacy lenses. If Canon attempted to break into the MF market without that, wouldn't they need to develop their own mount and a brand new set of lenses? Seems to make sense to me. Same as Sony buying Konica/Minolta to use their mount (very different case, but same logic).

 

[justicend]

I think they should come out with a medium format camera, and they could probably do it very well.

Enterying MF market is a big investment, and MF market is not that big as consumer market. Even if canon produce it the whole range of new optics is required. But no one can predict the future,anything is possible. But I think 5DMKIII will use 18MP from what I read. But Canon medium format will be something interesting. I dont think this happening in near future as they stated that they don't have internal experience with MF.

 

[candyman]

That means those hoping for a high-resolution 5DIII are going to be disappointed, either because the 5DIII will use the 1D X sensor (most likely scenario), or because if there's going to be a high MP 5DIII, it won't come for at least 1.5 years.

So what do you think? Will prices of a new 5D MKII go up again?
Looks like also current owners of a 5D MKII will not put theirs for sale.

 

[thepancakeman]

...how many 10,000s of customers we might be losing...

Somehow I find that hard to believe.

Since 10,000 is plural, we'll use 20,000 for the short end. Throw in a little inflation, we'll call a 5d3 $3000. Most people buying one are likely to be buying at least 2 decent lenses for it, let's say at a mean of $1500 each. So Canon is going to forgo $120 million in sales (exluding accessories AND all the future revenue associated with brand loyalty) to "see what happens". I'm not buying it.

I'm not saying the 5d3 specifically will be high MP, I'm just saying there's no way Canon can stay out of the high MP market (unless they convince Sony and Nikon to as well and thereby not lose the "10,000s of customers")

 

[Loswr]

Since 10,000 is plural, we'll use 20,000 for the short end. Throw in a little inflation, we'll call a 5d3 $3000. Most people buying one are likely to be buying at least 2 decent lenses for it, let's say at a mean of $1500 each. So Canon is going to forgo $120 million in sales (exluding accessories AND all the future revenue associated with brand loyalty) to "see what happens". I'm not buying it.

Are you suggesting that if Canon releases a 5DIII which incorporates the 18 MP sensor from the 1D X, with the ISO and DR improvements, that no one will buy it? I'm not buying that. Canon's not saying no 5DIII, they're saying no high-MP FF sensor (for now).

 

[mackguyver]

I don't want to incite the flamers here, but as someone who works in the product development & marketing world, I can tell you that companys tend to listen to their paying customers, not internet fanboys, and why they are smart enough to look at the competitive environment. That's the reason they left 4K resolution off of the C300 and why they aren't building a 30+ MP camera.

Fuji has brought medium format within striking distance of high-end DSLRs and while Canon has the resources to compete, why spend millions on R&D of a whole new system (i.e. with MF you couldn't use EOS lenses) to compete in a new space when you can (continue to) dominate the SLR space? Also, while the internet is full of people screaming for 30+ MP, 1080/60p, 4k, 20fps, etc. the majority of Canon's professional customers (who are actually buying their gear) clearly aren't using or needing those features yet. I'm sure they want them, too, but you'll notice that most professionals don't work with the latest bodies or lenses (unless they are Explorers of Light, etc.). They are more likely to stay with what works, see how the new stuff works out, and then buy as time & money allows. Canon has to reassure these pros that the new gear is not only advanced, but also reliable. If your income depends on your gear (unlike me and most posters on the web) a 40MP camera that breaks down is worthless and a pro would rather shoot a 10MP camera that works.

Just my two cents as a technology lover, but also a realist when it comes to products.

 

[Haydn1971]

I'm still convinced that the next camera will be an entry level FF 9D using the 18mpx sensor from the 1Dx, with the 5D labouring on for another year then being replaced with a higher res product or potentially dropped if the market doesn't appear to want higher res FF. Canon cover both bases, have dual options for 12 months down the line...

 

[lol]

This statement, if representative of Canon's position, suggests they have not even begun development of a high-MP FF sensor. That means those hoping for a high-resolution 5DIII are going to be disappointed, either because the 5DIII will use the 1D X sensor (most likely scenario), or because if there's going to be a high MP 5DIII, it won't come for at least 1.5 years.

While I agree with the 1D X sensor recycling, I read the "development" line a little differently. They're not going to start from scratch for a high MP FF camera, although the implication is they haven't made a directed effort into one so far. If they decide to go ahead, I think they could move quite quickly. I think it is more of a play down of the possibility of a future high MP model to help persuade the undecided towards getting the 1D X sooner than later.

And just to move totally into fantasyland here, what if they made a medium format mirrorless camera? Future scenario: other mirrorless players largely beef up contrast AF such that it can rival phase even with motion tracking and do it smaller than entry level DSLR, which in turn become undesirable. DSLRs only have one retreat: bigger sensors for shallow DoF. But the market is shrinking... time to go extreme? Imagine if the mirrorless medium format camera could have a mount distance shorter than EF mount. This means it could take existing EF lenses for backward compatibility with an adapter, in a crop mode. No, I don't know who would want such a thing... but it would be different!

 

[MRW]

I love my Canons but if I have to purchase a whole new set of lenses Im not sure I will stay. I'm glad I held on to my Hassy V lenses, you never know.

 

[briansquibb]

Are you suggesting that if Canon releases a 5DIII which incorporates the 18 MP sensor from the 1D X, with the ISO and DR improvements, that no one will buy it? I'm not buying that. Canon's not saying no 5DIII, they're saying no high-MP FF sensor (for now).

I think this 'cut down' 1DX would come with a different model number in order to avoid confusion. The 5D range has an association for portraits and landscapes that a cut down 1DX would not meet

Call it the 3D which also brings back memories from the film days - maybe even with the eye activated focus.

 

[thepancakeman]

Since 10,000 is plural, we'll use 20,000 for the short end. Throw in a little inflation, we'll call a 5d3 $3000. Most people buying one are likely to be buying at least 2 decent lenses for it, let's say at a mean of $1500 each. So Canon is going to forgo $120 million in sales (exluding accessories AND all the future revenue associated with brand loyalty) to "see what happens". I'm not buying it.

Are you suggesting that if Canon releases a 5DIII which incorporates the 18 MP sensor from the 1D X, with the ISO and DR improvements, that no one will buy it? I'm not buying that. Canon's not saying no 5DIII, they're saying no high-MP FF sensor (for now).

Whoa--nope not saying that at all! :-[

What I'm saying is that Canon is not going to wait until they've lost 10,000s of customers (per the quote) before they decide to come up with a high MP camera. I was just using "5d3" as an example because we can give a rough reasonable price-point estimate on that. Sorry for the confusion!