Touchscreen Coming to EOS 5D Mark IV? [CR1]

[arthurbikemad]

Flip screen - moving parts = more to fail.. :'(

I think this is the point many may make here, I'd agree with that. Or you could argue for those screens that flip round and close it's more protected. However add in touch and water, crazy times! A weather sealed touch screen...lol Can't see it myself.

I've not read the whole thread so perhaps should just shush on the matter :-X

 

[lidocaineus]

If you read the sentence about the 60D, you'd have seen I typed "touch" by mistake instead of "flip," and then corrected the typo which.was.already.caught.by.another.poster.

As for hammering, you still don't get the point that I don't want a hinged device on a 5DIV. Whether or not the flip is kept in place or not, it still significantly changes the feel. It adds play, looseness, whatever you care to call it, and is just one more part that can break.

What baffles me is not your misunderstanding and misreading, but your insistence that those of us who don't share your opinion should be silenced. Many, many good reasons for having a flip have been posted in this thread, and I've acknowledged them. Posts like yours, which I don't mind correcting, are a big reason I keep responding.

Of course I know a 60D doesn't have touch--I've owned one for four years. I prefer the tight feel of my 5DIII and the fact it has no external moving parts. If you understand that, I don't have to hammer the point anymore!

No. We get it. And I respect people's opinions that differ from mine, because oftentimes I learn all sorts of things – different needs, different experiences, different situations – especially when they're backed up by well thought out reasonings and explanations. We're not stupid, but you keep talking to everyone like they're ignorant. Repeating yourself over and over (and adding in stranger and judgmental tones the more you do it) does nothing but antagonize people and push them away from understanding your point of view because you're being so confrontational and insistent on being "right". Guess what? There is no right. There are opinions backed up by reasons. We got yours back on page 1, but apparently that wasn't enough.

If you have actual new content to add to the conversation, by all means, I'm sure everyone would welcome it and you might get back some of the goodwill you squandered away. You could also keep your droning and repeating message over and over as well; I'm sure we'll respect your opinion greatly from that hole you're digging yourself deeper and deeper into.

 

[lidocaineus]

Flip screen - moving parts = more to fail.. :'(

I think this is the point many may make here, I'd agree with that. Or you could argue for those screens that flip round and close it's more protected. However add in touch and water, crazy times! A weather sealed touch screen...lol Can't see it myself.

I've not read the whole thread so perhaps should just shush on the matter :-X

Just as a point of matter – weather sealed articulating screens are easily done and deployed in consumer hardware. Touch screens in the same vein are also starting to show up (see the GX8 and GH4).

 

[RustyTheGeek]

I registered JUST to say this:

For all you people who think tillable and/or articulating screens are delicate or weaken a body, all I have to say is you must have very limited shooting experience.

- There has been no evidence of articulating screens being the source of numerous returns, warranty claims, or malfunctions.

- The usefulness of an articulating screen is incredible. Being able to shoot easily from different levels without having to contort your body into weird positions is a godsend, and if you think it's only when you shoot macro, again, I have to wonder what kind of shooting you do. And no, a 90 degree viewfinder won't help you when you're holding your camera above your head or dropping it close/on the ground. And have you ever tried to shoot yourself in a group? Do you know how much easier it is to flip a screen 180 degrees and get the framing right in real time?

- If you're worried about damage, you realize you can keep the screen locked in place, right? And that if it's an articulating screen, you can actually protect the screen even more by having it face the inside?

These arguments against tilting and articulating screens are tiring.

Here, here - a compelling first post.

I'm too busy to read the entire thread. I tend to agree with the comment above as well. And it's hard not to agree with Dustin most of the time anyway.

I've used the tilt screen on the 60D and 70D and the touch screen on the SL1. I liked having the touch screen on the SL1 a LOT more than I expected.

BUT HERE'S THE KICKER! ---->> If they put a touch screen on the 5D4, 6D or whatever, THE IMAGE BETTER LOOK PERFECT! I hated the way the 60D had a plastic bezel and was set away from the LCD so the image quality was TERRIBLE. This was improved on the 70D but the point I'm trying to make is that all of the fixed LCD screens look great or as good as possible since they are glass and they aren't mounted away from the LCD.

 

[lidocaineus]

I'm too busy to read the entire thread. I tend to agree with the comment above as well. And it's hard not to agree with Dustin most of the time anyway.

I've used the tilt screen on the 60D and 70D and the touch screen on the SL1. I liked having the touch screen on the SL1 a LOT more than I expected.

BUT HERE'S THE KICKER! ---->> If they put a touch screen on the 5D4, 6D or whatever, THE IMAGE BETTER LOOK PERFECT! I hated the way the 60D had a plastic bezel and was set away from the LCD so the image quality was TERRIBLE. This was improved on the 70D but the point I'm trying to make is that all of the fixed LCD screens look great or as good as possible since they are glass and they aren't mounted away from the LCD.

I completely agree. On a mid-level camera like the 60D, it was acceptable. If deployed to the 5D, there should be no compromise in image quality. That said, the 60D was an oddball or at least a slight shift in model positioning for Canon; it moved forward in a lot of ways from the 50D, but the build quality seemed to take a step back with the abundance of plastic everywhere.

 

[YuengLinger]

If you read the sentence about the 60D, you'd have seen I typed "touch" by mistake instead of "flip," and then corrected the typo which.was.already.caught.by.another.poster.

As for hammering, you still don't get the point that I don't want a hinged device on a 5DIV. Whether or not the flip is kept in place or not, it still significantly changes the feel. It adds play, looseness, whatever you care to call it, and is just one more part that can break.

What baffles me is not your misunderstanding and misreading, but your insistence that those of us who don't share your opinion should be silenced. Many, many good reasons for having a flip have been posted in this thread, and I've acknowledged them. Posts like yours, which I don't mind correcting, are a big reason I keep responding.

Of course I know a 60D doesn't have touch--I've owned one for four years. I prefer the tight feel of my 5DIII and the fact it has no external moving parts. If you understand that, I don't have to hammer the point anymore!

No. We get it. And I respect people's opinions that differ from mine, because oftentimes I learn all sorts of things – different needs, different experiences, different situations – especially when they're backed up by well thought out reasonings and explanations. We're not stupid, but you keep talking to everyone like they're ignorant. Repeating yourself over and over (and adding in stranger and judgmental tones the more you do it) does nothing but antagonize people and push them away from understanding your point of view because you're being so confrontational and insistent on being "right". Guess what? There is no right. There are opinions backed up by reasons. We got yours back on page 1, but apparently that wasn't enough.

If you have actual new content to add to the conversation, by all means, I'm sure everyone would welcome it and you might get back some of the goodwill you squandered away. You could also keep your droning and repeating message over and over as well; I'm sure we'll respect your opinion greatly from that hole you're digging yourself deeper and deeper into.

At this point you have 5 posts, and three of them are attacking me for clarifying my opinion? :

And I wrote, "Many, many good reasons for having a flip have been posted in this thread, and I've acknowledged them."

That's confrontational?

C'mon, Canon, make an announcement and end our agony.

 

[Proscribo]

I wonder how cameras are supposed to be made better if there can't be anything added "because it's one more thing to break".
Flippy screen or not, I find it ridiculous that people think touch screen is going to break more easily than a fixed one or that it would degrade image quality if done properly. I'm not sure but doesn't smartphone's have touch screens and pretty damn good quality and a few more pixels/cm.

That said, the 60D was an oddball or at least a slight shift in model positioning for Canon; it moved forward in a lot of ways from the 50D, but the build quality seemed to take a step back with the abundance of plastic everywhere.

I think it was that 7D was introduced as the top-level crop body, which was (kinda) the spot where 50D was.

 

[dolina]

I hope Canon offers features that are compelling to people to upgrade.

As it is it's just another more of this and more of that.

Built-in WiFi & GPS should have happened with the Mark III in 2012.

 

[ahsanford]

BUT HERE'S THE KICKER! ---->> If they put a touch screen on the 5D4, 6D or whatever, THE IMAGE BETTER LOOK PERFECT! I hated the way the 60D had a plastic bezel and was set away from the LCD so the image quality was TERRIBLE. This was improved on the 70D but the point I'm trying to make is that all of the fixed LCD screens look great or as good as possible since they are glass and they aren't mounted away from the LCD.

+1. Amazed the bezel didn't come up in conversation before.

And you've got the key distinction: how it performs and how it looks are two different things. You could have a wonderfully bright, responsive, high-res display tucked inside of a large/tacky looking bezel like a laptop screen from 15 years ago.

- A

 

[rfdesigner]

I keep wondering if Canon can make the screen detachable.

i.e. built in battery and wifi link to the camera, with say a 30 minute run time when detached, and recharges off the camera battery when reattached.

With wireless charging both screen and camera could be water tight, and if you broke/lost it you just clip on a replacement.

That's got to be the way to do it.

thinking further, you could do an EVF like this too!

The thing is, if you have WiFi, why not develop a decent Ap for smartphones and tablets where you can mirror the built in touchscreen and even add access to the various buttons.......

nothing to stop you developing a decent app.. there should be one.. but if the screen is simply detachable and wirelessly charged from the body then you don't need to "maintain" it like you do a smartphone.

Thats the primary reason I've never got a smartphone.. It doesn't offer me enough features for the amount of hassel I know I'll get, having to keep another software stack pointing the right way round.. it may be easy for those who spend an hour or more a day on one but for someone like me who'll barely use it more than half an hour a week, if that, I just don't want one.

I spend enough time looking a computer screens anyway.

 

[Ozarker]

Flip screen - moving parts = more to fail.. :'(

I think this is the point many may make here, I'd agree with that. Or you could argue for those screens that flip round and close it's more protected. However add in touch and water, crazy times! A weather sealed touch screen...lol Can't see it myself.

I've not read the whole thread so perhaps should just shush on the matter :-X

Just as a point of matter – weather sealed articulating screens are easily done and deployed in consumer hardware. Touch screens in the same vein are also starting to show up (see the GX8 and GH4).

Can't see the possibility of a weather sealed touch screen ArthurBikeMad? Shoot, check out my video. I've had this thing for years. I even dunk it in the sink. This thing is at least 3 years old now and has never failed. My gosh guys! When I worked for Proctor and Gamble 30 years ago we had weather sealed touch screens on production lines that were regularly sprayed down with high pressure hoses during product change overs. This is not some newfangled technology. It would be easier to seal that so many extra buttons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAWXYl0qAFQ

 

[roxics]

Would it help some of you accept it if the flip screen locked into the body on the other side requiring you to slide a switch to flip it out?

 

[zim]

Would it help some of you accept it if the flip screen locked into the body on the other side requiring you to slide a switch to flip it out?

no, haters will always hate :-\

 

[Don Haines]

Flip screen - moving parts = more to fail.. :'(

I think this is the point many may make here, I'd agree with that. Or you could argue for those screens that flip round and close it's more protected. However add in touch and water, crazy times! A weather sealed touch screen...lol Can't see it myself.

I've not read the whole thread so perhaps should just shush on the matter :-X

Just as a point of matter – weather sealed articulating screens are easily done and deployed in consumer hardware. Touch screens in the same vein are also starting to show up (see the GX8 and GH4).

Can't see the possibility of a weather sealed touch screen ArthurBikeMad? Shoot, check out my video. I've had this thing for years. I even dunk it in the sink. This thing is at least 3 years old now and has never failed. My gosh guys! When I worked for Proctor and Gamble 30 years ago we had weather sealed touch screens on production lines that were regularly sprayed down with high pressure hoses during product change overs. This is not some newfangled technology. It would be easier to seal that so many extra buttons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAWXYl0qAFQ

Then we have the laptops the military use..... if you build a laptop that works in heavy rain, a camera screen is child's play....

And remember.... the 60D (with articulated touchscreen) was supposed to be better sealed than the 5D2..... and the 7D2 with a pop-up flash is better sealed than a 1DX.... or you could give up entirely on Canon/Nikon/Sony and go Olympus..... they have better sealing

 

[tomscott]

Sometimes its easier to let them go round in the same circles than argue.

What will be will be.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

I was going to mention Olympus, thanks Don! And I think the military uses Panasonic Toughbooks (the fully rugged series). They are pretty solid! Also, Thinkpads are more rugged than most people realize and they can be repaired easily. Both products have a certain mil-spec rating respectively.

 

[Loswr]

...and the 7D2 with a pop-up flash is better sealed than a 1DX....

Don, can I ask where you found that information? I note that in his 7DII review, Bryan Carnathan (TDP) links to Roger Cicala's teardown and praises the 7DII's sealing, but also states, "Canon told me that the 1D X remains a better-sealed camera..."

 

[YuengLinger]

Post example pics here!
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=28358.msg559411#msg559411

Sincerely willing to learn.

 

[Don Haines]

...and the 7D2 with a pop-up flash is better sealed than a 1DX....

Don, can I ask where you found that information? I note that in his 7DII review, Bryan Carnathan (TDP) links to Roger Cicala's teardown and praises the 7DII's sealing, but also states, "Canon told me that the 1D X remains a better-sealed camera..."

Roger said "the Canon 7D Mk II may be the best weather-sealed camera I've run across" and "the most thoroughly weather-sealed camera I've ever run across". I can see it being true as a result of the lessons learned from the 1DX... and I would bet the 1DX's next iteration will be even better. I thing that both are as good as Canon can make them so whichever is the latest should be the best.

However, the real point is that the degree of weather sealing of a camera is more dependant on what the manufacturer decides to do than the cost of the camera. Many of the Olympus mirrorless cameras are better sealed than most Canons and Nikons, despite costing far less and despite having tilt/swivel screens and plastic bodies.

 

[Loswr]

...and the 7D2 with a pop-up flash is better sealed than a 1DX....

Don, can I ask where you found that information? I note that in his 7DII review, Bryan Carnathan (TDP) links to Roger Cicala's teardown and praises the 7DII's sealing, but also states, "Canon told me that the 1D X remains a better-sealed camera..."

Roger said "the Canon 7D Mk II may be the best weather-sealed camera I've run across" and "the most thoroughly weather-sealed camera I've ever run across". I can see it being true as a result of the lessons learned from the 1DX... and I would bet the 1DX's next iteration will be even better. I thing that both are as good as Canon can make them so whichever is the latest should be the best.

I read that in Roger's 7DII tear down, but I don't think he's torn down a 1D X for comparison. I'd be inclined to take Canon's word on it.

Still, it very clearly debunks the idea that a popup flash precludes effective weather sealing.