Touchscreen Coming to EOS 5D Mark IV? [CR1]

[romanr74]

Asking for picture samples of photos taken by flip screen is weird. The point is the ease with which photos can be taken by flip screen, not if they can't be taken otherwise.

What shall I say... 18 pages of dispute over the usefulness of swivel screens. plenty of People telling how the use lower end swivel screen cams for pictures they cannot do with the 1d/5d series. the someone opening a thread for swivel screen pictures (not me btw). then, virtually nothing, virtually noone having to share something... so is it ok if i feel confirmed in my view that i don't miss somehting without swivel screen?

I just think you're missing the point. It's like... 5D users manage without a pop up flash. Or wifi. Would it come in handy occasionally? Sure. Is it a deal breaker? Of course not - not for the vast majority anyhow.

I feel the majority of anti-flip/touch screen rhetoric has been excessively negative (subjective 'it's ugly' or baseless 'it can't be weather sealed'). Those saying they'd like it are just asking for more options, and have never described fixed-screen camera in such negative terms. I don't recall anyone saying you cannot take a given shot without one either. Again: it's about making things a little easier/giving you more options.

flash, screen, wifi..., they are not the same... my personal opinion for 5d/1d series:

- no built-in flash (it will not do the job but compromise both flash and potential ruggedness, weather-sealing and optical viewfinder)
- no swifel-screen (in my opinion it doesn't really help and i still believe it will compromise ruggedness and weather-sealing, to me it makes camera handling in the bag more difficult and i think they are as ugly as can be)
- please wifi (as i said before, so i can for instance use a field monitor/iPad as live view remote which probably does the job for size and for distance from the camera; if it can be done in the bullet-proof magensium alloy housing)

again, before someone freaks out again, this is my personal view.

 

[Maleko]

IF they do add a flip/touch screen it will be an annoying reason for them to add more to the price tag...

 

[bergstrom]

One thing I saw people complain about is the anti aliasing filter in the 5DMK3 and having them physically removed at their own cost. So I wonder will Canon either offer 2 versions, with and without anti aliasing filter?

 

[dufflover]

- no built-in flash (it will not do the job but compromise both flash and potential ruggedness, weather-sealing and optical viewfinder)

As quoted by previous posters, this whole ruggedness and sealing thing has been debunked. Sure it probably won't be a 1-series sealing, but you ask for proof with swivel screen friendly pics? How about you put up some practical proof, link to forum posts, anything, which shows people have had camera bodies stuff up because of swivel screens, touch screens, or popup flashes. Hey considering Rebel cameras don't even have as much weather sealing and use that "crappy plastic", start there and see how many of those have failed due to those issues. Or maybe even start over at Nikon land and see if there's a problem.

I'll even contribute to your request of showing some "low angle"/"reach" pics made much more easily, cleanly, simple, blah blah blah, with a flippy screen.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/duffohyeah/20717121114/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/duffohyeah/21172511621/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/duffohyeah/20591111688/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/duffohyeah/19795745281/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/duffohyeah/13926537647/

I mean a lot of these were taken on the beach ... the salty seas rough coarse beach! According to some posters here that compromised weather sealing means it should've fallen part right? The camera stayed perfectly dry and aside from the shoes/boots, so did I.

Like most people spending their hard-earned I tend to baby my stuff too, but the unplanned things I've put it through like my 60D being dropped onto concrete or 60D/70D being drenched in heavy rain have made me worry about it far less if said situations do come up.

 

[Don Haines]

I mean a lot of these were taken on the beach ... the salty seas rough coarse beach! According to some posters here that compromised weather sealing means it should've fallen part right? The camera stayed perfectly dry and aside from the shoes/boots, so did I.

Like most people spending their hard-earned I tend to baby my stuff too, but the unplanned things I've put it through like my 60D being dropped onto concrete or 60D/70D being drenched in heavy rain have made me worry about it far less if said situations do come up.

I can't remember where I read it, but someone from Canon had said that the 60D was better sealed than the 5D2.... Of course, that means nothing for the 5D3 or 70D, but it does show that articulated screens (and pop-up flashes) are not the black hole of sealing....

 

[StudentOfLight]

- no built-in flash (it will not do the job but compromise both flash and potential ruggedness, weather-sealing and optical viewfinder)

As quoted by previous posters, this whole ruggedness and sealing thing has been debunked. Sure it probably won't be a 1-series sealing, but you ask for proof with swivel screen friendly pics? How about you put up some practical proof, link to forum posts, anything, which shows people have had camera bodies stuff up because of swivel screens, touch screens, or popup flashes. Hey considering Rebel cameras don't even have as much weather sealing and use that "crappy plastic", start there and see how many of those have failed due to those issues. Or maybe even start over at Nikon land and see if there's a problem.

I'll even contribute to your request of showing some "low angle"/"reach" pics made much more easily, cleanly, simple, blah blah blah, with a flippy screen.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/duffohyeah/20717121114/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/duffohyeah/21172511621/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/duffohyeah/20591111688/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/duffohyeah/19795745281/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/duffohyeah/13926537647/

I mean a lot of these were taken on the beach ... the salty seas rough coarse beach! According to some posters here that compromised weather sealing means it should've fallen part right? The camera stayed perfectly dry and aside from the shoes/boots, so did I.

Like most people spending their hard-earned I tend to baby my stuff too, but the unplanned things I've put it through like my 60D being dropped onto concrete or 60D/70D being drenched in heavy rain have made me worry about it far less if said situations do come up.

I like your Black Swan image. Wildlife shots taken from eye level of the subject are much more compelling in my opinion. What lens was used?

Also the Orb-Weaver image is another good example. When action is unfolding right in front of you, you need to be able to respond quickly in which case an articulating screen can be very helpful. Orb-Weavers also make huge webs so you cannot always find a spot to set up a tripod without damaging or disturbing their web so the articulating screen gives you some much needed flexibility regarding camera position and orientation.

 

[Don Haines]

- please wifi (as i said before, so i can for instance use a field monitor/iPad as live view remote which probably does the job for size and for distance from the camera; if it can be done in the bullet-proof magensium alloy housing)

WiFi is an option that in my opinion should be on every camera. Although a tilt/swivel screen is more convenient at times than a fixed screen, it can equally be said that a WiFi interface (and a good touchscreen interface) in more convenient than an articulated screen. Basically, this should be wireless tethered shooting and if properly done one could do everything with a phone (or tablet) that they do on the camera body.

And yes, it is easy to do with a "bulletproof" magnesium body.... A camera body is so full of holes that it is easy for RF to get in/out, and even if it were a complete shell, nothing stops you from putting the antenna(s) on the outside under the rubber. (see 1DX shell below). As a case in point, the 7D, with a magnesium shell, has GPS...

 

[Sabaki]

I'd like the camera to be programmed with hypofocal indicators per lens, perhaps a dotted line or something in the viewfinder or LiveView

 

[PhotographyFirst]

My previous 60D got wet on a few occasions and even got partially dunked into a river when I slipped once. Never had an issue at all with it. On the other hand, I've seen 5D2 cameras puke their guts and shut down from being in cold moist air with no water on them. They also had some gaping holes to the internals through the strap lugs.

Fixed screens and articulating screens could either be well sealed or not sealed at all, just depending on how they are designed and implemented.

Also, it is probably better to show images of people using the articulating screens rather than images from using them. I have many images that were greatly aided by an articulating screen, that don't look like they needed it just from the photo itself.

 

[PhotographyFirst]

I'd like the camera to be programmed with hypofocal indicators per lens, perhaps a dotted line or something in the viewfinder or LiveView

Magic lantern has something that sort of works this way. The new Leica SL also has DOF distances in the camera LCD displays.

This would be a welcome feature, and would hopefully add more precision over the poor distance and DOF scales on most lenses Canon produces today.

 

[pvk]

I own both the 70D (with Touchscreen) and the 5D Mark III. There are two great advantages in daily use of a touchscreen and one disadvantage.

1) It is fast to select options. Often I still use the buttons and dials (old habits), but after working with the 70D a while, I start to touch the screen on the 5D only to discover that it does not react.
2) This is the biggest advantage: when making movies with the fast 70D autofocus, you can simply touch the screen to focus on that area. For me (not a movie professional) a touch screen has become a must have for movie shooting.
3) The disadvantage: sometimes my nose decides to change settings. It should have a proximity sensor like my mobile phone to avoid this.

IMO it should also appear on the EOS 1DX Mark II for movie shooting.

 

[dufflover]

3) The disadvantage: sometimes my nose decides to change settings. It should have a proximity sensor like my mobile phone to avoid this.

IMO it should also appear on the EOS 1DX Mark II for movie shooting.

How does this happen with people? (honest question)
When in normal viewfinder mode, except for the bottom corner "Q" touch button I have to press that or the physical "Q" button to enable the touch screen to respond in all those other areas.

 

[Treblid]

What a fusion of ergonomics from 6D/70D/7D-II could look like.

 

[rfdesigner]

And yes, it is easy to do with a "bulletproof" magnesium body....

ever designed an antenna?

I have... many of them, this problem is solvable but it isn't straight forward. Otherwise good RF engineers wouldn't earn north of $100k per annum.

Please Try talking out of a different orafice.

 

[Loswr]

...earn north of $100k per annum.

I've never worked for so little. Except once, and that was a very noble cause.

 

[bigdaddy]

Please Try talking out of a different orafice.

Hello rfdesigner,

I do not post much, but I read this forum almost everyday, and I find your replies usually well thought out and they usually contribute something to the topic.

But this statement to one of the most balanced and polite members of this forum ist really out of place.

Bigdaddy

 

[Don Haines]

And yes, it is easy to do with a "bulletproof" magnesium body....

ever designed an antenna?

I have... many of them, this problem is solvable but it isn't straight forward. Otherwise good RF engineers wouldn't earn north of $100k per annum.

Please Try talking out of a different orafice.

Yes, and I would appreciate it if you were a bit more polite.....

I would have answered you earlier, but I was busy all day characterizing a steerable array in the anecolic chamber where I work as a member of the Radio Networks group at the Communications Research Centre..... I normally don't work on small antennas, but I have several "real" ones (6 Meter and 9 Meter dishes spread over the colder half of North America, plus a number of 120M and 240M wide HF antennas.... Obviously none of those can be mounted to a camera, but yes, I have designed antennas....

And yes, you CAN build an antenna that works on a "solid" magnesium body.... the fact that the 7D2 has GPS proves the point. The fact that the Olympus OM-D E-M1 has both a "solid" magnesium body and has WiFi proves that it can be done. The fact that the Olympus TG4 P/S camera, with a very solid metal shell has WiFi in a very small package proves that you can have WiFi on a metal body with very little real estate.

Designing a WiFi antenna for a Canon DSLR is NOT groundbreaking research.

 

[privatebydesign]

And yes, it is easy to do with a "bulletproof" magnesium body....

ever designed an antenna?

I have... many of them, this problem is solvable but it isn't straight forward. Otherwise good RF engineers wouldn't earn north of $100k per annum.

Please Try talking out of a different orafice.

Yes, and I would appreciate it if you were a bit more polite.....

I would have answered you earlier, but I was busy all day characterizing a steerable array in the anecolic chamber where I work as a member of the Radio Networks group at the Communications Research Centre..... I normally don't work on small antennas, but I have several "real" ones (6 Meter and 9 Meter dishes spread over the colder half of North America, plus a number of 120M and 240M wide HF antennas.... Obviously none of those can be mounted to a camera, but yes, I have designed antennas....

And yes, you CAN build an antenna that works on a "solid" magnesium body.... the fact that the 7D2 has GPS proves the point. The fact that the Olympus OM-D E-M1 has both a "solid" magnesium body and has WiFi proves that it can be done. The fact that the Olympus TG4 P/S camera, with a very solid metal shell has WiFi in a very small package proves that you can have WiFi on a metal body with very little real estate.

Designing a WiFi antenna for a Canon DSLR is NOT groundbreaking research.

Most times this comes up I point out that the wildly compromised WiFi inside the EyeFi SD card works absolutely fine even when in a 1 series camera.

Anybody that believes putting WiFi/Bluetooth/NFC in a metal camera is difficult has bought in to too much marketing crap.

 

[jebrady03]

I'm sure this has been beaten to death by this point... But I have a stick handy and some time to kill...

This is what the screen of the 70D looks like when you're shooting with it (on the left) vs the screen on the 6D when you're shooting with it (on the right)

20151124_172417 by Jonathan Brady, on Flickr

If you touch ANYWHERE on the 70D except for the bottom left hand corner where the "Q" is, the screen does NOT respond. AT ALL. EVER. Once you touch the "Q", THEN the screen becomes active and you can touch any of those parameters and change them via the touchscreen. Touch the "Q" again, and the screen is, once again, dead. Holding the camera up to your face will NOT touch the "Q" area of the touchscreen unless your nose protrudes from your lips. Seriously. I'm not trying to be funny. That's where your nose would have to be to make contact with the "Q" on the touchscreen. Protruding... from... your... mouth... ...yep... Well, that is... IF you have a normally sized head. If your head is literally twice the size of the average human head, then I suppose your nose would easily press the "Q" button. Speaking of "Q"... did that last bit of information cue all the touchscreen haters who insist their nose would touch the touchscreen and change all the settings?

Anyway... That was for all of the folks who (obviously) have never used a Canon camera with a touchscreen and who either said they wouldn't use it because they're worried they'd constantly change settings with their face or said "it would be great if it could be turned off".

Now... regarding the robustness of articulating screens... Here's a thread I just posted on CR where I emailed Roger at Lens Rentals about the topic... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=28423.0

 

[Don Haines]

I'm sure this has been beaten to death by this point... But I have a stick handy and some time to kill...

This is what the screen of the 70D looks like when you're shooting with it (on the left) vs the screen on the 6D when you're shooting with it (on the right)

If you touch ANYWHERE on the 70D except for the bottom left hand corner where the "Q" is, the screen does NOT respond. AT ALL. EVER. Once you touch the "Q", THEN the screen becomes active and you can touch any of those parameters and change them via the touchscreen. Touch the "Q" again, and the screen is, once again, dead. Holding the camera up to your face will NOT touch the "Q" area of the touchscreen unless your nose protrudes from your lips. Seriously. I'm not trying to be funny. That's where your nose would have to be to make contact with the "Q" on the touchscreen. Protruding... from... your... mouth... ...yep... Well, that is... IF you have a normally sized head. If your head is literally twice the size of the average human head, then I suppose your nose would easily press the "Q" button. Speaking of "Q"... did that last bit of information cue all the touchscreen haters who insist their nose would touch the touchscreen and change all the settings?

Anyway... That was for all of the folks who (obviously) have never used a Canon camera with a touchscreen and who either said they wouldn't use it because they're worried they'd constantly change settings with their face or said "it would be great if it could be turned off".

Now... regarding the robustness of articulating screens... Here's a thread I just posted on CR where I emailed Roger at Lens Rentals about the topic... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=28423.0

You sir.....
HOW DARE YOU bring common sense into an emotional argument!
HOW DARE YOU!

(My nose hits the screen Just below the M, and even if this was a problem, the touchscreen lock could easily be moved to the other side of the screen in software and downloaded in the next firmware update....)