Touchscreen Coming to EOS 5D Mark IV? [CR1]

[Don Haines]

And yes, it is easy to do with a "bulletproof" magnesium body....

ever designed an antenna?

I have... many of them, this problem is solvable but it isn't straight forward. Otherwise good RF engineers wouldn't earn north of $100k per annum.

Please Try talking out of a different orafice.

Yes, and I would appreciate it if you were a bit more polite.....

I would have answered you earlier, but I was busy all day characterizing a steerable array in the anecolic chamber where I work as a member of the Radio Networks group at the Communications Research Centre..... I normally don't work on small antennas, but I have several "real" ones (6 Meter and 9 Meter dishes spread over the colder half of North America, plus a number of 120M and 240M wide HF antennas.... Obviously none of those can be mounted to a camera, but yes, I have designed antennas....

And yes, you CAN build an antenna that works on a "solid" magnesium body.... the fact that the 7D2 has GPS proves the point. The fact that the Olympus OM-D E-M1 has both a "solid" magnesium body and has WiFi proves that it can be done. The fact that the Olympus TG4 P/S camera, with a very solid metal shell has WiFi in a very small package proves that you can have WiFi on a metal body with very little real estate.

Designing a WiFi antenna for a Canon DSLR is NOT groundbreaking research.

Most times this comes up I point out that the wildly compromised WiFi inside the EyeFi SD card works absolutely fine even when in a 1 series camera.

Anybody that believes putting WiFi/Bluetooth/NFC in a metal camera is difficult has bought in to too much marketing crap.

Not only that, but Canon already has WiFi on a DSLR (6D).... they know how to do it. The only question is in finding a source of an antenna..... They could use the same one as in the 6D (I presume it is internal but really don't know), or they could go buy an OM-D, open it up, locate the antenna, write down the part number, and order a few from the manufacturer.... Remember, we are just talking about something that will work for 10 meters or so.... this is not about designing the optimal antenna to link up from 100 meters away...

This is a small incremental improvement (or simply another iteration) over existing products..... nothing new here....

P.S. just so you readers know how far a WiFi signal can travel with the right antenna, I have a WiFi link at work that goes 5K to one of the huts in the back end of the firing range... just slap on a pair of 32dB gain antennas and away you go....

 

[jebrady03]

You sir.....
HOW DARE YOU bring common sense into an emotional argument!
HOW DARE YOU!

You're right of course. I'm going to find the nearest corner and stick my nose in it. Or just find the nearest corner of a touchscreen 70D and press my nose upon it and elsewhere on the screen and change all my settings. Either should be a suitable punishment!

 

[millsrg1]

This is way overdue. I am actually considering switching to Nikon if the 5DMKIV doesn't have a touch and articulating screen. The lack of it in the 7DMKII was very disappointing. I can't count how often I wished the 5DMKII had it. If you do landscape photography, architecture or anything else where low angles are common, an articulating screen is essential, period. For videography it is a necessity to be able to change focus cleanly with the dual pixel AF and move properly w/o shake. As for safety, you are not going to break it unless you're doing one-handed cartwheels or running backwards through the woods. When I travel with the 70D I turn the screen around and the screen is more safe, not less. The 5DMKIV needs to be a jack of all trades, and it will not accomplish that without an articulating touch screen. End of story.

 

[Proscribo]

I'm sure this has been beaten to death by this point... But I have a stick handy and some time to kill...

This is what the screen of the 70D looks like when you're shooting with it (on the left) vs the screen on the 6D when you're shooting with it (on the right)

....

What? Off-topic but I just want to ask: do people really use the back screen to show the settings while they're shooting? Do they use the back screen to regularly change settings? Because since I switched from 550D to 70D I have kept the back screen off for almost all the time and have not missed it, maybe if I changed my WB all the time but still...

 

[dufflover]

I'm absolutely kicking myself over this but hey may as well make use of this "event". Today due to my fault in the end, my 70D unmounted from my 70-200 which I had on a BR style shoulder strap via the tripod foot, so it fell roughly 3~4ft onto the pavement. I only knew after hearing the thud sound too! (absolutely shocked and FFS!). Picked it up off the ground where it was face up (gah! quick to stop dirt/dust getting in), popup flash had unlatched.
Dints on the corner next to where the battery cover closes so it feels a bit stickier to open/close now. Big scratch/dint marks on the corner of plastic of the screen (thankfully no screen cracks or anything; though mentioning this now I don't think I've tested the touch screen yet) and only just found small fracture next to the top AF button. I was absolutely paranoid ofcourse it was broken, on my way out for some military flyover events, and just long term in general. But no, at this stage anyway seems to work fine, including the popup flash. Ofcourse there is always the element of luck in these things, but my point is given the damage in multiple spots, if those "gimmicks" really do compromise the integrity of the body it isn't by much at all ...

(Absolutely filthy at myself!)

 

[scyrene]

This is way overdue. I am actually considering switching to Nikon if the 5DMKIV doesn't have a touch and articulating screen. The lack of it in the 7DMKII was very disappointing. I can't count how often I wished the 5DMKII had it. If you do landscape photography, architecture or anything else where low angles are common, an articulating screen is essential, period. For videography it is a necessity to be able to change focus cleanly with the dual pixel AF and move properly w/o shake. As for safety, you are not going to break it unless you're doing one-handed cartwheels or running backwards through the woods. When I travel with the 70D I turn the screen around and the screen is more safe, not less. The 5DMKIV needs to be a jack of all trades, and it will not accomplish that without an articulating touch screen. End of story.

Which full frame Nikon DSLRs have them?

 

[YuengLinger]

I'm sure this has been beaten to death by this point... But I have a stick handy and some time to kill...

This is what the screen of the 70D looks like when you're shooting with it (on the left) vs the screen on the 6D when you're shooting with it (on the right)

....

What? Off-topic but I just want to ask: do people really use the back screen to show the settings while they're shooting? Do they use the back screen to regularly change settings? Because since I switched from 550D to 70D I have kept the back screen off for almost all the time and have not missed it, maybe if I changed my WB all the time but still...

If camera is on a tripod with top LCD and buttons above eye-level, how else?

 

[Loswr]

I'm sure this has been beaten to death by this point... But I have a stick handy and some time to kill...

This is what the screen of the 70D looks like when you're shooting with it (on the left) vs the screen on the 6D when you're shooting with it (on the right)

....

What? Off-topic but I just want to ask: do people really use the back screen to show the settings while they're shooting? Do they use the back screen to regularly change settings? Because since I switched from 550D to 70D I have kept the back screen off for almost all the time and have not missed it, maybe if I changed my WB all the time but still...

If camera is on a tripod with top LCD and buttons above eye-level, how else?

Carry a ladder?

Some settings are easier to adjust using the Q button and main LCD, such as timer, EC in M mode, etc., and on a tripod I'm composing with the LCD anyway.

 

[sanj]

I'm sure this has been beaten to death by this point... But I have a stick handy and some time to kill...

This is what the screen of the 70D looks like when you're shooting with it (on the left) vs the screen on the 6D when you're shooting with it (on the right)

....

What? Off-topic but I just want to ask: do people really use the back screen to show the settings while they're shooting? Do they use the back screen to regularly change settings? Because since I switched from 550D to 70D I have kept the back screen off for almost all the time and have not missed it, maybe if I changed my WB all the time but still...

If camera is on a tripod with top LCD and buttons above eye-level, how else?

Carry a ladder?

Some settings are easier to adjust using the Q button and main LCD, such as timer, EC in M mode, etc., and on a tripod I'm composing with the LCD anyway.

True..!!

 

[rfdesigner]

And yes, it is easy to do with a "bulletproof" magnesium body....

ever designed an antenna?

I have... many of them, this problem is solvable but it isn't straight forward. Otherwise good RF engineers wouldn't earn north of $100k per annum.

Please Try talking out of a different orafice.

Yes, and I would appreciate it if you were a bit more polite.....

I would have answered you earlier, but I was busy all day characterizing a steerable array in the anecolic chamber where I work as a member of the Radio Networks group at the Communications Research Centre..... I normally don't work on small antennas, but I have several "real" ones (6 Meter and 9 Meter dishes spread over the colder half of North America, plus a number of 120M and 240M wide HF antennas.... Obviously none of those can be mounted to a camera, but yes, I have designed antennas....

And yes, you CAN build an antenna that works on a "solid" magnesium body.... the fact that the 7D2 has GPS proves the point. The fact that the Olympus OM-D E-M1 has both a "solid" magnesium body and has WiFi proves that it can be done. The fact that the Olympus TG4 P/S camera, with a very solid metal shell has WiFi in a very small package proves that you can have WiFi on a metal body with very little real estate.

Designing a WiFi antenna for a Canon DSLR is NOT groundbreaking research.

I apologise for my tone, it was uncalled for, I've just seen so many people (managers included) thinking you can just bung any old off the shelf "antenna" on a PCB and it will magically work. I read your comment that it is "easy" as meaning precisely this. I wouldn't classify this as easy.. certianly possible for the right people with the right tools and sufficient time... but not "easy".

I say all this with a background of wearable antennas.. these are not "easy"..

 

[Don Haines]

And yes, it is easy to do with a "bulletproof" magnesium body....

ever designed an antenna?

I have... many of them, this problem is solvable but it isn't straight forward. Otherwise good RF engineers wouldn't earn north of $100k per annum.

Please Try talking out of a different orafice.

Yes, and I would appreciate it if you were a bit more polite.....

I would have answered you earlier, but I was busy all day characterizing a steerable array in the anecolic chamber where I work as a member of the Radio Networks group at the Communications Research Centre..... I normally don't work on small antennas, but I have several "real" ones (6 Meter and 9 Meter dishes spread over the colder half of North America, plus a number of 120M and 240M wide HF antennas.... Obviously none of those can be mounted to a camera, but yes, I have designed antennas....

And yes, you CAN build an antenna that works on a "solid" magnesium body.... the fact that the 7D2 has GPS proves the point. The fact that the Olympus OM-D E-M1 has both a "solid" magnesium body and has WiFi proves that it can be done. The fact that the Olympus TG4 P/S camera, with a very solid metal shell has WiFi in a very small package proves that you can have WiFi on a metal body with very little real estate.

Designing a WiFi antenna for a Canon DSLR is NOT groundbreaking research.

I apologise for my tone, it was uncalled for, I've just seen so many people (managers included) thinking you can just bung any old off the shelf "antenna" on a PCB and it will magically work. I read your comment that it is "easy" as meaning precisely this. I wouldn't classify this as easy.. certianly possible for the right people with the right tools and sufficient time... but not "easy".

I say all this with a background of wearable antennas.. these are not "easy"..

Working in a research institute, I probably have a warped idea as to what "easy" is......

To me, it's "this has been done before.... it should be easy". That "easy" will require months of modelling and testing to get the design and radiation patterns optimized, but going into the project you already know it can be done and how to do it. You can get about 75 percent of the way there on the first try, but optimizing is a lot of work.... So many times in a research environment we start off with "I wonder if this can be done and how the heck do I do it?", so relatively speaking WiFi on a DSLR is easy..... but yes, still a lot of hard work.

And yes, it is worth the knowledge and experience of a good RF designer to get the finished project...

And ironically, I just came out of a meeting where the manager thinks "you can just bung any old off the shelf "antenna" on a PCB (vehicle for me) and it will magically work", nor do they understand out of band noise and co-site interference..... or effects of ground planes..... sigh!

 

[rfdesigner]

And yes, it is easy to do with a "bulletproof" magnesium body....

ever designed an antenna?

I have... many of them, this problem is solvable but it isn't straight forward. Otherwise good RF engineers wouldn't earn north of $100k per annum.

Please Try talking out of a different orafice.

Yes, and I would appreciate it if you were a bit more polite.....

I would have answered you earlier, but I was busy all day characterizing a steerable array in the anecolic chamber where I work as a member of the Radio Networks group at the Communications Research Centre..... I normally don't work on small antennas, but I have several "real" ones (6 Meter and 9 Meter dishes spread over the colder half of North America, plus a number of 120M and 240M wide HF antennas.... Obviously none of those can be mounted to a camera, but yes, I have designed antennas....

And yes, you CAN build an antenna that works on a "solid" magnesium body.... the fact that the 7D2 has GPS proves the point. The fact that the Olympus OM-D E-M1 has both a "solid" magnesium body and has WiFi proves that it can be done. The fact that the Olympus TG4 P/S camera, with a very solid metal shell has WiFi in a very small package proves that you can have WiFi on a metal body with very little real estate.

Designing a WiFi antenna for a Canon DSLR is NOT groundbreaking research.

I apologise for my tone, it was uncalled for, I've just seen so many people (managers included) thinking you can just bung any old off the shelf "antenna" on a PCB and it will magically work. I read your comment that it is "easy" as meaning precisely this. I wouldn't classify this as easy.. certianly possible for the right people with the right tools and sufficient time... but not "easy".

I say all this with a background of wearable antennas.. these are not "easy"..

Working in a research institute, I probably have a warped idea as to what "easy" is......

To me, it's "this has been done before.... it should be easy". That "easy" will require months of modelling and testing to get the design and radiation patterns optimized, but going into the project you already know it can be done and how to do it. You can get about 75 percent of the way there on the first try, but optimizing is a lot of work.... So many times in a research environment we start off with "I wonder if this can be done and how the heck do I do it?", so relatively speaking WiFi on a DSLR is easy..... but yes, still a lot of hard work.

And yes, it is worth the knowledge and experience of a good RF designer to get the finished project...

And ironically, I just came out of a meeting where the manager thinks "you can just bung any old off the shelf "antenna" on a PCB (vehicle for me) and it will magically work", nor do they understand out of band noise and co-site interference..... or effects of ground planes..... sigh!

Yup.. had that meeting.. good luck.

 

[millsrg1]

This is way overdue. I am actually considering switching to Nikon if the 5DMKIV doesn't have a touch and articulating screen. The lack of it in the 7DMKII was very disappointing. I can't count how often I wished the 5DMKII had it. If you do landscape photography, architecture or anything else where low angles are common, an articulating screen is essential, period. For videography it is a necessity to be able to change focus cleanly with the dual pixel AF and move properly w/o shake. As for safety, you are not going to break it unless you're doing one-handed cartwheels or running backwards through the woods. When I travel with the 70D I turn the screen around and the screen is more safe, not less. The 5DMKIV needs to be a jack of all trades, and it will not accomplish that without an articulating touch screen. End of story.

Which full frame Nikon DSLRs have them?

D750 screen flips out

 

[romanr74]

I have a WiFi link at work that goes 5K to one of the huts in the back end of the firing range... just slap on a pair of 32dB gain antennas and away you go....

I don't want to fry my brain - i just only want to take photographs...

 

[romanr74]

If you do landscape photography, architecture or anything else where low angles are common, an articulating screen is essential, period. ... The 5DMKIV needs to be a jack of all trades, and it will not accomplish that without an articulating touch screen. End of story.

Aha... This after 20 pages of debate. Next time please let us know earlier... :

 

[sanj]

If you do landscape photography, architecture or anything else where low angles are common, an articulating screen is essential, period. ... The 5DMKIV needs to be a jack of all trades, and it will not accomplish that without an articulating touch screen. End of story.

Aha... This after 20 pages of debate. Next time please let us know earlier... :

LOL

 

[dufflover]

D750 screen flips out

And while we are on the topic, it also has popup flash, and wifi too.
So (genuinely asking) how many D750s generally fail because those features compromise it in some way ...

I've heard about the D600 sensor ... nothing on this

 

[PhotographyFirst]

D750 screen flips out

And while we are on the topic, it also has popup flash, and wifi too.
So (genuinely asking) how many D750s generally fail because those features compromise it in some way ...

I've heard about the D600 sensor ... nothing on this

The wifi zaps the brain cells and causes the person to drop the camera. It must be true because there is no data to prove otherwise.

I also have found that many wedding photographers have been sued after the bride has found out that the d750 was used. The litigation is based on the fact that cameras with pop-up flashes are not professional. Brides do not like spending their husband's or family's money on amateur photos. Many weddings have been butchered due to this fraud.

 

[sanj]

D750 screen flips out

And while we are on the topic, it also has popup flash, and wifi too.
So (genuinely asking) how many D750s generally fail because those features compromise it in some way ...

I've heard about the D600 sensor ... nothing on this

The wifi zaps the brain cells and causes the person to drop the camera. It must be true because there is no data to prove otherwise.

I also have found that many wedding photographers have been sued after the bride has found out that the d750 was used. The litigation is based on the fact that cameras with pop-up flashes are not professional. Brides do not like spending their husband's or family's money on amateur photos. Many weddings have been butchered due to this fraud.

 

[Ozarker]

I'm sure this has been beaten to death by this point... But I have a stick handy and some time to kill...

This is what the screen of the 70D looks like when you're shooting with it (on the left) vs the screen on the 6D when you're shooting with it (on the right)

....

What? Off-topic but I just want to ask: do people really use the back screen to show the settings while they're shooting? Do they use the back screen to regularly change settings? Because since I switched from 550D to 70D I have kept the back screen off for almost all the time and have not missed it, maybe if I changed my WB all the time but still...

Use it all the time.