track and field photography

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#21
All the feedback so far looks pretty good.

As a 1dx user that shoots indoor sports all the time, I would like to add some very simple advice for indoor action when the lighting is not good (when using 70-200 2.8)

1. You mentioned spot metering...don't do that. Use center weighted average for this setting.

2. Use Manual mode and set your shutter speed at 1/640, aperture at 2.8, and ISO on AUTO. Don't change these settings for action shots.

3. Make sure your AF is on "servo" not "one shot". (i'm sure it is but just thought i'd make sure)

4. Auto WB is fine, if the 1dx gets it wrong, you can easily correct in Lightroom.

Good luck.

North
 
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#22
I do pretty much as Northstar, except I start at 1/1000 and compromise that if the ISO is going too high. Less than 1/640 and you tend to get motion blur. What strikes me most in the first pic on the thread is that you're in the wrong shooting position. There are way too many people in shot taking focus away from the subjects. Reducing the depth of field to blur out the background would help, but personally I'd start by standing somewhere else.
 
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#26
A few things I've learned from shooting Cross Country that might help you:

1) Use a small aperture (but not too small), such as f/2.8 or f/3.5. f/4 is good too. This separates the competitors front he background, which is really important, as meet backgrounds are often very bright, colorful, and distracting from your subjects.

2) Prefocus on a specific spot. A tripod or monopod will help you with this. This is the best method to freezing action that I've found, as it guarantees sharp shots when the runners are in that zone. Use your 1DX to focus on one spot on the track, and when the runners are roughly 5 feet away from that spot, start mashing the shutter button.

3) Use at least 1/2000th sec shutter speed. Self explanatory.

4) Put your camera in AI servo mode, it saves time on AF

5) I hope this goes without saying, but don't use the 5D III as your main body. I wouldn't use it at all for action if you can avoid it.
 
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#27
His first shot clearly shows a standing position inside turn 2 or turn 4. The problem with that one, as I and others pointed out, was not necessarily a lack of positional access, but a lack of attention to the framing that his access afforded him. If you have access to the infield, which he clearly did, then the object should be, as you (JDRamirez) said, to find a framing and position that declutters the image to the greatest extent possible. That can be hard indoors. But not impossible. The first thing to try is to shoot from low to high. Generally that clears out the trackside crowd, excess hurdles, and the other riff-raff present in his shot.

Also, shooting into the corner from that position, across the track, puts the potential background much closer to the athlete, making shallow DOF much less effective. Shooting from even another 30-40 meters down the track would have at least equalized the distance between the shooter to athletes and athletes to background. Combine that with a 2.8 aperture and the separation would be much more effective. Better yet, for an indoor arena, the 135 f/2 really shines here to drop out backgrounds in favor of the athletes. The guys with the 200 f/2s are really in business, though can be challenged for working space in the small venue, when trying to get uncluttered angles.

My personal style for this stuff is shooting low to high. It's not exclusive, but it's certainly the bulk of how I tend to shoot. I like to get the athlete taller than the horizon in the background. As I said above, it's about making them a superhero. Everyone wants to feel and look great when they are making such physical efforts.

I contrast my approach to the approach of the event company that shot the 1/2 marathon I ran recently. They had a beautiful shot venue where we were running alonside a river, with palm trees and an ampitheater. How did they shoot the shot? Looking down on us from ladders. I look like I have a bush growing out of my head. The photo looks ok, but barely. I noticed they were using equipment like 7Ds and 70-200 zooms. They could have done so much better with the shots. I just wanted to scream "Make me a superhero!" But I don't imagine the shooters would have understood. They had their ladders and their planned shot. It cleaned up their backgrounds for them...by making it mostly the sidewalk behind us runners. Blah. Boring. No water in the shot, no ampitheater. No context. Runner with a bit of grass and sidewalk. It could have been taken anywhere.

On the track, if you must clutter the background due to positional limitations, try to use the scoreboard in the background. At least then the viewer has a sense of context to the shot.
 
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#28
Learn to shoot in manual mode and watch the light meter in the view finder. I don't trust the auto exposure modes. All too often, the background can adversely affect the meter reading (such as skaters against a white ice rink).

Action shots need a minimum shutter speed of 1/500 (maybe 1/400 for younger kids). Preferred speed of 1/1000.

Shoot your 70-200 wide open (either 2.8 or 4.0 -- I don't know which lens you have).

ISO up to 3200 often produces clean images with the 5D3 without noticeble noise. Don't be afraid to go higher. I often shoot up to 6400 in indoor gyms. Remember, a sharp noisy photo is begter than a blurred clean one.

Shoot AI SERVO focus mode and single-point focussing with 8 expansion points. Use Case 2 to keep your subject in focus when something else gets in the way. Lock on to your subject with the center point and follow your subject. Keep panning with your subject as you shoot. As long as one focus point stays on your subject, your subject will stay in focus. Keep in mind that AI SERVO is a predictive mode. It keeps your subject in focus by tracking its movement, then predicting where it will be when the shutter trips. It works best when you start tracking a second a so before triggering the shutter. Track with the shutter partially depressed.

Google "Canon back button focussing". It may take some getting use to, but it is quite handy.

Set drive mode to high speed burst. But, don't make it a crutch. In many cases the only way to get "the" shot is with good timing.

Some indoor venues may benefit with custom white balance. But, shoot in RAW and you can fix this in post if needed. If not comfortable with custom white balance, shoot AWB.

Develop good habits for holding the camera -- cradle the lens in the palm of your left hand and keep your wings in. Pan at the waste. A monopod will help eliminate fatigue for longer events. Hold steady, but not too tight. Relaxed hands are steadier than clenched hands.

If using IS, set it to pan mode. At 1/1000 second, you can turn off IS. Some advise turning it off at anything above 1/500. But, with the 70-200 f2.8L II, I can't tell a difference with IS on or off.

Learn to anticipate the action and be prepared. Lastly, practice, practice, practice...
 
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#29
TeenTog said:
A few things I've learned from shooting Cross Country that might help you:

1) Use a small aperture (but not too small), such as f/2.8 or f/3.5. f/4 is good too. This separates the competitors front he background, which is really important, as meet backgrounds are often very bright, colorful, and distracting from your subjects.

2) Prefocus on a specific spot. A tripod or monopod will help you with this. This is the best method to freezing action that I've found, as it guarantees sharp shots when the runners are in that zone. Use your 1DX to focus on one spot on the track, and when the runners are roughly 5 feet away from that spot, start mashing the shutter button.

3) Use at least 1/2000th sec shutter speed. Self explanatory.

4) Put your camera in AI servo mode, it saves time on AF

5) I hope this goes without saying, but don't use the 5D III as your main body. I wouldn't use it at all for action if you can avoid it.
Click to expand...

Pretty good advice Teentog but 1/2000 shutter is probably not happening indoors with track and a 70-200 2.8 (maybe with a 100, 135, or 200 f2, but almost certainly not at 2.8 unless you don't mind ISO 12,800 and above)

As Brymills described, 1/1000 is a good starting point if there's enough light to do it at 2.8 and ISO 4000 or lower. (or ISO 6400 for others depending on personal pref.) But usually there isn't enough light indoors to do this so 1/800 or 1/640 come into play. With 1/640 being the slowest I would go for this situation.

Remember, for a 1dx user, it's highly advisable to "shoot to the right" in this situation, so if you set this up in your custom settings for an extra 1/4 to 1/2 stop of light then you'll be pushing the ISO even further.
 
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#30
FTb-n said:
Learn to shoot in manual mode and watch the light meter in the view finder. I don't trust the auto exposure modes. All too often, the background can adversely affect the meter reading (such as skaters against a white ice rink).

Action shots need a minimum shutter speed of 1/500 (maybe 1/400 for younger kids). Preferred speed of 1/1000.

Shoot your 70-200 wide open (either 2.8 or 4.0 -- I don't know which lens you have).

ISO up to 3200 often produces clean images with the 5D3 without noticeble noise. Don't be afraid to go higher. I often shoot up to 6400 in indoor gyms. Remember, a sharp noisy photo is begter than a blurred clean one.

Shoot AI SERVO focus mode and single-point focussing with 8 expansion points. Use Case 2 to keep your subject in focus when something else gets in the way. Lock on to your subject with the center point and follow your subject. Keep panning with your subject as you shoot. As long as one focus point stays on your subject, your subject will stay in focus. Keep in mind that AI SERVO is a predictive mode. It keeps your subject in focus by tracking its movement, then predicting where it will be when the shutter trips. It works best when you start tracking a second a so before triggering the shutter. Track with the shutter partially depressed.

Google "Canon back button focussing". It may take some getting use to, but it is quite handy.

Set drive mode to high speed burst. But, don't make it a crutch. In many cases the only way to get "the" shot is with good timing.

Some indoor venues may benefit with custom white balance. But, shoot in RAW and you can fix this in post if needed. If not comfortable with custom white balance, shoot AWB.

Develop good habits for holding the camera -- cradle the lens in the palm of your left hand and keep your wings in. Pan at the waste. A monopod will help eliminate fatigue for longer events. Hold steady, but not too tight. Relaxed hands are steadier than clenched hands.

If using IS, set it to pan mode. At 1/1000 second, you can turn off IS. Some advise turning it off at anything above 1/500. But, with the 70-200 f2.8L II, I can't tell a difference with IS on or off.

Learn to anticipate the action and be prepared. Lastly, practice, practice, practice...
Click to expand...


BLF and FTb....lot's of really good advice from both of you.
 
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#31
oh my goodness, i didn't think i would get that much help….i really appreciate all of you taking your time to reply to this message, or question! some of the messages were pretty long, so i really really thank you.
when i shot these i was in the stands, but I'm going to a meet in indiana at notre dame this weekend and I'm going to see if the coach will let me on the field.. with the 2 pic i posted i used a 70-200 but it was the f4, i do have the 70-200 f2, so I'm guessing that is the one i need to be using? someone mentioned who i was trying to get the focus on and yes it is the one in the purple, it is for UNI(university of northern iowa) there colors are very vibrant purple and yellow/goldish color. again, i am so happy i came here. thank you all so much!
 
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#32
TeenTog said:
A few things I've learned from shooting Cross Country that might help you:
Click to expand...

1) Use a small aperture (but not too small), such as f/2.8 or f/3.5. f/4 is good too. This separates the competitors front he background, which is really important, as meet backgrounds are often very bright, colorful, and distracting from your subjects.

Agreed. Play around with a depth of field calculator and see what the DOF is @ 200mm from 50 yards away... and then at 20, then at 10.... etc. Or... just start shooting at 50 and don't stop until the subject passes you. Don't be afraid to use the buffer to your advantage until you are more comfortable with photography.

2) Prefocus on a specific spot. A tripod or monopod will help you with this. This is the best method to freezing action that I've found, as it guarantees sharp shots when the runners are in that zone. Use your 1DX to focus on one spot on the track, and when the runners are roughly 5 feet away from that spot, start mashing the shutter button.

I disagree. I used to do this with my fuji finepix and my sony point and shoot... but with both a 1Dx and a 5d mkiii, both should easily be able to keep the subject in focus... and if you are dealing with shallow depth of fields... you are going to only have one moment to get the shot...

3) Use at least 1/2000th sec shutter speed. Self explanatory.

Agreed. If you want to see a little blur... go with 1/200... but it does depend on the speed of your subject.

4) Put your camera in AI servo mode, it saves time on AF

Agreed...

5) I hope this goes without saying, but don't use the 5D III as your main body. I wouldn't use it at all for action if you can avoid it.

Well... compared to the 1dx... sure... but the mkiii is excellent. The mkii... sure... but the mkiii...
 
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#34
I recommend and use Auto ISO, 1,000 sec, TV (shutter priority)centre weighted-metering, AI Servo AF and High Speed
Continuous Drive Mode. On your lens set the IS to Mode 2. This way you can pan keeping your subject in the centre of the frame and if you crop later you can move your subject off centre if this looks better. I use these settings on my 40D using ISO 800 and now my 7D with Auto ISO for BIF. When I was using the 70-200 f4 IS I got pics of BIF that were a long way off. I am surprised how much detail I achieved. After you have these settings saved to one of your C settings on your mode dial it is just a matter of selecting it on your mode dial and Practice,Practise,Practice! Also use back button focus. I also use Auto White Balance. But this may cause trouble under fluorescent lights and have to be set manually each time you shoot. Good Luck!
 
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#35
Well you definitely got a lot of good advice on camera settings. Aside from all the camera setting, I have two simple and short term recommendations:
You said you were using two camera bodies to shoot the event. I would recommend putting one of the cameras aside for a while and stick with one camera and one lens. This will afford you a to work on the details of learning the settings for the camera and event type you're photographing. The reason I say this is you're going to get slightly different result from the switching back and forth between the two cameras. Concentrate on using one camera body and maybe one lens for a while, preferably the 1DX and 70-200. Try the setting that are recommended on this forum. Practice, review and make adjustments, practice, review and again make adjustments.
The second thing is go to the school or nearby school that has an indoor facility where you can practice the recommendations offered on the forum. Lighting is your worst enemy at indoor sporting events and different at every venue. Practice, practice, practice, don't wait for the actual event. Depending on your availability time, try going two or three times a week, even just for a 1/2 hour session. You may have to barter with the school to get access to the practices. Be up front with them(the AD, Media person or coaches) , tell them you are shooting track meets at schools X and you need to work on your various camera settings. In return for you gaining access, maybe offer some photos that turn out good at the practices. You probably don't have many events left in the season and practicing will payoff when you are photographing at the actual competition event. There is a lot less pressure trying to get the the shot right at a practice then waiting to try them out at an actual event. The settings will be different at the different venues, but you'll have a better understanding when it comes time to make the adjustments needed. Good Luck and hopefully you post some more pics so these guys can give see your progress and offer more advice if needed. I learn something new every time I come to this forum.
 
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#36
So this was my first attempt after I received all of your input….it might not be perfect but I can see a huge difference from the first pics I posted and all the help I got from you guys was great!!! I thank you all very much...
 

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#37
My 8 year old daughter has been learning a few things about photography. I changed all of the settings on camera and let her use the 5dm3, and she took the pics that says "jones kids photography", and the other I took.. Thanks again!
 

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#38
Looking good! I'm a rank amateur myself, so one thing I do occassionally is look at the settings employed by other photographers. I haven't used a 1Dx, but a quick google search bought up this page (which also largely applies to the 5Diii): -

http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2678

Of course, you don't have to follow other people's settings exactly. I find it interesting to see what options other people choose, try to work out why they have made those choices and then decide if those choices are valid for me. Over time, you learn more about the AF options available to you and you steadily develop the optimal settings for your own use.

Of course, settings are only part of the story. You need to be in the right place at the right time. This is an interesting read (I assume it's ok to mention a Nikon user?): -

http://www.dslrbodies.com/technique/technique-articles/improving-the-photographer/learning-from-others-sports.html

And if you'd like some inspiration to see how interesting sports photography can be, this bloke picks up a lot of awards (and he's cool - he uses a Canon): -

http://www.adampretty.com/
 
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