Two More 5D Cameras Coming? [CR1]

[gsealy]

There is no need to go to 4K just yet

There is no need, but there is a huge advantage.

I just shot a school play with two A7s cameras. I set one for a very wide shot of the stage and more, and I operated the other for closeups. I recorded the wide shot in 4K on an Atomos Shogun monitor/recorder, which allows me to crop and pan as necessary. When I need to see the entire stage, I crop a tiny bit. When I need a closer shot, I crop more.

The results are fantastic, and something you just can't do properly without 4K.

I definitely agree with you regarding framing. No question. I agree with your setup and approach. I am thinking in terms of absolute need versus the changing and prices of technology. 4K is not yet at a point where it is an absolute must. So I can live in the short term with what we have. When we shoot video we usually have 3 and maybe 4 cameras being used. So I can get the variation I need. It has worked out well. In the meantime I am continuing to monitor camera features and price points. We'll see.

 

[ahsanford]

I could see Canon's 5D line moving to a three sensor approach like Sony has:

• The lowest resolution / best high ISO rig --> like the a7s. Dedicated videographers would go for this. This would be the '5D C' rig we've heard some rumors of.
  
  
• The "very good at everything" rig --> like the a7 (or a7 II) or possibly the Nikon D750. This would surely be the 5D4.
  
  
• The highest resolution / worst high ISO rig --> this is your great studio (or tripod) mega detail camera. That camera exists today, and they are the two 5Ds rigs.
  
  

What I am not buying in this rumor is a 12 FPS-rated 5D camera body. Not going to happen unless that performance is in a cropped mode. The 5d line represents a lot of things to a lot of people, but a blistering framerate is not one of them. I don't see a future 5D stealing any thunder from the 1DX or 7D2 camps.

- A

 

[gdanmitchell]

First up, the Canon EOS 5Dc...

That name is going to mess with all the folks who like to call the first 5D-series camera the "5DC," or 5D Classic. ;-)

 

[mackguyver]

12 FPS and ISO 204,800 -- 2 stops higher than the 1Dx? I can't see Canon introducing this while they still have the 1Dx in stock and before the 1Dx Mark II is out.

I agree and if these are the specs, it makes you wonder if this is actually a new 1D body, but without the battery grip. In those interviews with the 1D series engineer last year, he said that the ideal 1D camera would be in this body style. Either that, or they will announce the 1D ___ at the same time and it will have some crazy fast frame rate and top ISO.

like this?
http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/01/global-shutter-coming-to-canon-dslrs-cr1/

pierre

Exactly!

 

[PureClassA]

I had wholly expected the 1DX2 to be the replacement for both the 1DX and 1DC. While I still think that will happen, this notion of model dedication seems to be reaching a bit too far, depending of course largely how true this rumor is (and it's a CW4 at CanonWatch....) and just what dedicated video features they would cram into a 5DC .... which I can't imagine it being too much because of the "Really Makes No Sense" $5500 C100 Mk II. Tell me why I would spend that much money for a 1080p camera with so many other 4k options in that range... and now even further with a 4k 5DC (with Digic DV chips I'd wager instead) at presumably $3500-$4000 like the rest of the 5 series? Granted It wont have the connections and monitor and EVF of the C100 II.... but still... Will it record internally? So many head scratching, confusing moves here. And while I realize this is a rumor, you have to admit it's pretty plausible given Canon's own statements about model specialization.

So I if you want an all around 5 body weighted to stills, it's the 5D4 with the old sensor technology. If you want one for video, it's the 5DC with the new sensor technology. If you want High Resolution for awesome studio and landscape, get a 5DS/R (with or without OLPF) but you get the old sensor tech. If you want great all around for both stills and video, get a 1DX2 with the new sensor.

Head is spinning. All these models are being released in 2015 (we hope), so why the A.D.D. on the sensor tech? Buying a 5DSR now seems to give me pause. If they have that sensor, why not on this camera. to get all that extra DR, I'd be fine with 2-3 FPS. How fast do you need when landscaping in most scenarios anyway?

I seriously am starting to wonder if Canon product R&D is just several disassociated groups at HQ all working in separate caves with no inter-communication. "Hey! Cinema/Video guys get the new toys with all the DR! But you stills guys who have been making all the noise about it get the finger! LOL!" Explain this...

Given the recent unveiling of the C300II sensor tech, the question needs to be posed sooner than later to someone up the Canon food chain as to why this didn't/couldn't be in the 5DS.

 

[riker]

Not sure what you mean by the "Apple" comment - Apple has been so successful because they minimize the amount of SKU's they have in the market - think about the iPhone and how many model types they have (currently the newest 6 and 6 Plus which is the same as the 6, just a larger size) - now compare that to Samsung, Blackberry and other companies who have dozens of different SKUs which just confuse the consumer.

That said, I think Canon is making a terrible mistake here by subdividing the 5 moniker into a series of cameras. There still is no camera between the 1 and the 5 series - wouldn't it make more sense to release a dedicated series of camera called the 3C - keep it video oriented but give it enough specs that it will satisfy the photographer as well. Of course, calling it the 3C would also eliminate the need for Canon to make this a three-dimensional (3D) camera.

It is pretty clear that from recent products - particularly the iPhone (phone, camera and music) - that consumers prefer a convergence option as opposed to different products that do specific things.

Sooo agree, u just typed my opinion lol!

 

[Deleted member 7828]

May be in the minority but I like the segmentation....to a point.

The video guys get their camera...the high res studio guys get their camera...and for the rest of us, there will be the option to either stick with the 5D3 or move up to the 5D4.

Of course, the downside is for those who want it all - might need multiple bodies now. Even for me, I don't do video, so don't care about video features...but sounds as if the video cam might have the best high-ISO performance(?).

 

[Dylan777]

28MP sensor + 12fps + Dual Pixel AF III and assuming the price tag is around $3500, this could make current 1Dx looks little less attractive.

If that the case, my CR1 says 1dx II will be able to shoot @ ISO100K free noise in low light - native ISO. OVF is filled with Double-dual cross pts and will be slightly faster @ 20fps :

 

[riker]

Oh dear, this is soooo gone wrong.

In the first place, 1Dc, C100, C300, C500...and now even XC10 and 5Dc WTF?!?!?!?
And then they make 5Ds, 5DsR, 5Dmk4, 5Dc?!?!?! Is this a comedy? Where are the hidden cameras? Coz this must not be for real.

OK Canon, here is what you will do: just cut the crap and
- make 5Ds and 5DsR into ONE product (as Nikon already figured this is better)
- make 5Dmk4 and 5Dc into ONE product, a 28MP real low-light performer camera with advanced video features
- forget 1Dc and C100
- make C300 and C500 into ONE product
- make XC10 as small and versatile as possible and make every 3rd party manufacturer support like hell so it becomes a de facto camera for anyone who is wishing for something more advanced than a gopro for action, drone, underwater and every possible special application

And you know you can keep the billions of dollars this advice has saved you, I just want to love you again like in the old times before you started bullshitting ((((

Oh by the way, what about previous 1Ds users?!?!? You abandoned all of them. The people who bought your most expensive camera, mostly professionals, were left behind! They spent shitloads of money on a camera for a reason. They needed resolution AND the features of EOS 1 body. After 7.5 years they still do not have a proper upgrade!!! They either have to give up resolution or the famous EOS 1 body. WTF again?!?!?
So you get that 50MP sensor (or one that is at least around 35-40MP) and put it in a EOS 1 body, name it 1D Xs or whatever! Make a damn flagship camera because currently you do NOT have one! Just make a camera that is the wet dream of every photographer and then you are free to price it whereever you want, $6000, $7000, $8000? It doesn't matter because it's worth it if someone can pay that price. And let's admit, most professionals who really make their living in photography will not care either, just as 1Ds was widely purchased despite the price. Beacuse that and only that was THE professional camera (and later 1D also).
Your professional camera has 18MP and the prosumer camera has 50MP ))) I'm still searching for the hidden cameras, I'm sure I'm in some kind of joking show.

 

[riker]

Uh oh, btw this so beats the crap out of C300mk2 at third the price.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini

 

[Random Orbits]

28MP sensor + 12fps + Dual Pixel AF III and assuming the price tag is around $3500, this could make current 1Dx looks little less attractive.

If that the case, my CR1 says 1dx II will be able to shoot @ ISO100K free noise in low light - native ISO. OVF is filled with Double-dual cross pts and will be slightly faster @ 20fps :

+1. Replacement of the 1Dx will be better than the 5D4. It's not really fair to compare across generations.

 

[RLPhoto]

I don't see 12FPS on a 5D series body. Maybe 8Fps, and why dice up all these features when they should be in one camera. This doesn't make me want to buy any one of them.

 

[ahsanford]

I don't see 12FPS on a 5D series body. Maybe 8Fps, and why dice up all these features when they should be in one camera. This doesn't make me want to buy any one of them.

Agree. If this rumor is (broadly) true, it would appear that Canon has done the following thinking:

1) For eye-popping performance in one metric, another metric must suffer. Use MP count vs. high ISO performance, high MP count vs. burst rate, etc. -- there are hosts of these tradeoffs.

2) So how about we offer different cameras that kickass in different metrics by overloading that metric as it's principal raison d'etre: a camera built for low-light/video, a camera built for speed/buffer/AF, a camera built for maximum detail, etc.

3) Market the crap out of each as the 'Perfect thing for people like X' (videographers, landscapers, event shooters, etc.)

And you have a glut of FF offerings that are hyper-specialized. The weird bit is that this appears to be Sony's FF business model and not Canon's. If this rumor is (broadly) true, why would Canon do this? Is it the only way they can compete on the spec front? Have they actually been losing enough customers that the 'Pricey but 9 out of 10 at everything camera' business model must be abandoned?

- A

 

[K-amps]

Am I the only one that feels, that in the past 1-2 years, many Landscape shooters might have moved to The 810, the A7r or even the 645z..... Why would Canon not make a body that has a high mp and that has good DR? Landscapers will be ok with 1fps and 1 af point.... This 5ds with the same DR as the 5d3 seems like a half baked product... The concept is fine as is the shutter drive and other vibration control features, but why use old Tech noisy sensor?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

It's weird that CW gives a high CW4, from a known source that has been right a lot in the past, and CR sticks with CR1 for it. How reliable is CW when it goes to CW4?

 

[ronlane]

I am really excited to see what the 5D mk IV specs will be. At 28 mp and 12 fps, that would seem like an amazing camera.

 

[ahsanford]

Am I the only one that feels, that in the past 1-2 years, many Landscape shooters might have moved to The 810, the A7r or even the 645z..... Why would Canon not make a body that has a high mp and that has good DR? Landscapers will be ok with 1fps and 1 af point.... This 5ds with the same DR as the 5d3 seems like a half baked product... The concept is fine as is the shutter drive and other vibration control features, but why use old Tech noisy sensor?

That's the $64,000 question, of course: was expanding the 7D2 pixels over an FF sensor* the best way forward for Canon?

[*please pardon the lack of sensor know how / terminology here, I'm referring to Maeda-san's comments that we should expect the same pixel-level performance with the 5Ds as the 7D2]

Whether it's right or wrong, the 5Ds/R rigs would appear to be 'good light' cameras where you can control the light (i.e. studio) or you're on a tripod (i.e. landscapes). That apparently was Canon's fastest high MP response. Will it get flogged by DXO? Youuuu betcha. Does that subset of Canon folks screaming for a high MP body care about that? Probably not.

I'm still waiting for the 9 out of 10 at everything FF camera in the 5D form factor. The 5Ds/R rigs, on paper, are not that rig, but I await reviews to that effect. But right now, I'm clearly in the 5D4 camp and would prefer improved resolution but not at the cost of lessened high ISO performance.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

It's weird that CW gives a high CW4, from a known source that has been right a lot in the past, and CR sticks with CR1 for it. How reliable is CW when it goes to CW4?

Not very. CR has a very good track record on CR3 rated items -- but you only get those a week in advance of announcement, usually.

CW re-circulates a ton of content from other sites. I don't think they have as strong sources like CR, Northlight, etc. do.

- A

 

[RGF]

too bad cameras don't come out once a year (like cars use to). Then we could compare models and decide.

Like to compare the 5D M4 vs 5Ds before spending $.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

It's weird that CW gives a high CW4, from a known source that has been right a lot in the past, and CR sticks with CR1 for it. How reliable is CW when it goes to CW4?

Not very. CR has a very good track record on CR3 rated items -- but you only get those a week in advance of announcement, usually.

CW re-circulates a ton of content from other sites. I don't think they have as strong sources like CR, Northlight, etc. do.

- A

Yeah CW has tons of garbage re-circulated, but do they ever give that stuff CW4?