*UPDATED* Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

[vscd]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

@AvTvM

I think you see the world from the customerview. Your statements remind me of something like "Why is there no 70-200L 1.4 IS, where is the problem?". In the non-engineering world it's quite easy to wish for something which seems to be a no-brainer, but I think even Canon doesn't hold back innovation on purpose...

The mirrorless concept is no holy grail and every advantage takes a disadvantage with it. For example a sportsphotograph gives a S*it on shuttterschocks if he can do 3000 shots CIPA with the mirror-cam. This may be differ on another task, but as you see the mirrorless is nothing some people may look for. I might remind you than any DSLR can be a mirrorless with slapping up the mirror and let liveview take over the work. You can have all you desire directly on the sensor, without AF-Adjustment. So what's the deal?

Just wanted to jump on the Mirrorless-Train? I guess most pro/semipro know what the differences are and don't need another thread about what Canon should do and what they shouldn't.

I don't want a mirrorless. I have one and I use it where is belongs. For real work I use a DSLR. Thanks for teaching.

By the way, why do you claim the Mirrorless body to be less noisy?

P.S: Did you notice the recent problems of small bodies with overheating @4k recording? One further disadvantage... look at CPU-Coolers.

 

[Ladislav]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

My expectations for 2017:

• 6D II
• That rumored 200-500 or similar zoom
• 24-70/2.8 L IS
• Rumors about 7D III for 2018

I would be more than interested in these items.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

@mikehit:
global shutter eliminates shutter shock. That's why I want it (I dont care for video). It has been in the works long enough. If Canon were half as innovative as some CDL members here claim, we would have had global shutter on FF sensors for some time already.

Smaller form factor: is real. Just becaus Sony decied to first make a narrow very short-flange distance E-mount for APS-C only, and then decided to also use that for FF does not mean Canon or others should repeat Sony's mistake. Make that mount as wide as you can [Canon does] and make flange distance just 3 mm longer and lens design will be *a whole lot easier* and lenses smaller and less expensive, while camera bodies can be still quite skinny.

Me and millions of other potential buyers have not switched to Sony because
1. most of us have some investment in Canon or Nikon glass and Sony does not offer a native adapter for it and i will never buy some weirdo metabones stuff at 500 a piece and
2. Sony A7 1st gen line-up was lacking in some key areas [AF, shutter shock, battery charge ... ] and
3. Sony has priced its A7 Mk. II family rather high and
4. most importantly: Sony lenses are either sub-par and yet more expensive compared to Canon/Nikon glass or too big, fat, heavy and way too expensive [Zeiss-badged stuff, G-Master cludges]

Those are the main 4 reasons why Sony has not been able and is not able to grab more market share, despite Nikon's and Canon's no-show in FF mirrorless and Canon's nerfed APS-C mirrorless offering.

Fuji has profited a bit from the situation, but are limited due to their high prices and their (stupid!) decision to not add FF mirrorless but rather go into pseudo "medium format". And that retro stuff appeals only to a small minority of customers and turns off people like myself and millions of other potential customers who want clean, modern, digital, sleek user interfaces.

It's quite easy to understand the stills imaging market.

With all their video equipment, you are claiming the Canon is not applying their research to this? has little interest in a global shutter? It seems your desire to whine like a 5-year old who didn't get their favourite present on Christmas day is blinding you to pure logic.

The four points you highlight show different priorities with each company and which one you buy is your choice. You see, the problem is that people are predicting the demise of Canon for their ignorance or unwillingness to introduce certain technology, forgetting that people buy Canon or Nikon for what is called the 'ecosystem' (stupid word in this context). And your 4 points explain precisely why Canon will not go bust - the Sony lenses are big and expensive and quality ones few and far between.

Maybe Sony's prices are high because implementing mirrorless technology is not your verging-on-peurile assumption that 'the price of the camera is the price of a DSL without the cost of making and installing a mirror'. Maybe you don't know what you are talking about. Or maybe you do know what you are are talking about but just like to complain.



Nikon don't have FF mirrorless
Canon don't have FF mirrorless
Fuji don't have FF mirrorless

It's quite easy to understand the stills imaging market.

Given it is so easy to understand, I wonder who it is who doesn't understand it. You or three major manufacturers?

 

[canonic]

6D2

If Canon dont put in it 4K Video ... i am coming Sony A7/A9 ... long live Metabones!

Its a shame i/we have to ask ourselve about this if will be happen in 2017!

 

[koenkooi]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Still no replacement to prehistoric 50mm Compact macro or update to ancient 180mm usm macro. Also how about Rt(slave mode only) upgrade to speedlight 320ex? That would be useful for a people wanting RT flashes on budget.

What would you like to improve on the 180L? Just improving for it's own sake to rise the prices? The lens is perfect as is... still one of the sharpest ever made, after 2 decades.

Reduce CA, increase focus speed and add IS.

 

[koenkooi]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Why is a FF mirrorless such a desired item again? With their lackluster history with the M series, I don't think they would start off with an awesome FF mirrorless...it would be some crippled, pathetic attempt.

Mirrorless is attractive for many reasons you can find in the forum. If you try to distill it down into a simple sound bite like "Mirrorless is all about making things smaller" you miss the point. There's more going on than that.

During spring/summer the MP-E 65mm, MT-24EX and GP-E2 rarely leave my eos M, the exposure simulation and 5x/10x zoom options really help with nailing the focus: https://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/18738636335/in/album-72157654153487336/

That combo can't be labeled 'small mirrorless' either

 

[Alex_M]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Mike,

I recall Fuji CEO making comment at the launch of their Medium Format rig to the effect that they decided to skip mirrorless FF form factor all together as it is dangerously too close to the crop tech in terms of IQ and other major charateristics of the resulting image... Medium Format was making a better sense for them. So having the crop bodies targeting consumer customer base and Medium Format targeting more demanding segments of the market? I totally understand where he was coming from Just wanted to support your statement: there is nothing technical about this FF issue. I trust it was a business decision that companies made based on reliable market and customer base data / feedback / response...

Nikon don't have FF mirrorless
Canon don't have FF mirrorless
Fuji don't have FF mirrorless

It's quite easy to understand the stills imaging market.

Given it is so easy to understand, I wonder who it is who doesn't understand it. You or three major manufacturers?

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Thank you for that clarification, Alex.
As you say, these guys understand the market, because it is how they make their living. Whereas too many armchair marketing geniuses think the market is 'I would buy it'.

I am sure more firms have plans to make FF mirrorless in due course. It is just not ready yet.

 

[ExodistPhotography]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Lenses:

Canon EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS USM with Ring-type USM and real FTM support. No STM II, please!

Let me fix that for ya.. "Canon EF-S 18-55 f/2.8 II IS USM"... But yea no STM..

APS-C bodies need a quality standard zoom in a serious way.. It can be done, the Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4 Contemporary has really good optics for a sub $500 APS-C lens. Sadly mine has started having focusing issues the past month or so now..

 

[jeffa4444]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

The rumormill has gone quiet for the moment, though we expect it to pick up ahead of CPS next month. Below is what we believe we know is coming in 2017, and we expect there are going to be other products as well.</p>
<p><strong>DSLR</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Canon EOS Rebel T7s
<ul>
<li><em>Release Date: This month or early next month ahead of CES.</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Canon EOS Rebel T7i
<ul>
<li><em>Release Date: This month or early next month ahead of CES.</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Canon EOS 6D Mark II
<ul>
<li><em>Release Date: Late spring or early summer 2017.</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>PowerShot</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Canon PowerShot SX70 HS
<ul>
<li><em>Release Date: If we had to guess, for CES next month</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Canon PowerShot G9 X Mark II
<ul>
<li><em>Release Date: Unknown</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Lenses</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Canon EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS STM II
<ul>
<li><em>Release Date: Alongside the new Rebel cameras ahead of CES</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS USM
<ul>
<li><em>Release Date: Unknown</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>A second lens released alongside the Rebels
<ul>
<li><em>We’re told there may be an “interesting lens” coming around the same time as the Rebels, we don’t know what that is yet nor can we confirm it would be coming in January.</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Cinema EOS</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Canon Cinema EOS C100 Mark III
<ul>
<li><em>Release Date: Unknown, but NAB would be a logical guess.</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Canon Cinema EOS anamorphic lens
<ul>
<li><em>We think at least one is coming for NAB in April.</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>EOS M</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>We haven’t confirmed any new EOS M cameras or lenses at the time of writing this.</li>
</ul>
<p>We’ll update the roadmap on a regular basis as we learn more about Canon plans.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

I think were also going to see at NAB a Full-Frame version of the C700. My prediction will be the EF 35mm f1.4L II which your reporting will have a cousin in the EF 85mm f1.4L will expand out to a 18mm, 24mm, 50mm, 100mm and maybe a 135mm. Nikon have recently added a 105mm f1.4 so Canon will want to compete and these lenses will be converted for cinematography just as Sigma has done with its Art lenses but Canon will maintain a T1.5 stop.

 

[Orangutan]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Speak for yourself. I'm actually a reasonable person.

I don't think anything on my list was particularly extravagant. Sure, none of them are more important than a competitive new Rebel or the 6D2 -- your point is correct. But consider:

• If a new 70-300 non-L can happen, I think the non-L USM lenses might see an update someday.
• If an astro rig gets released every so often, perhaps someone might want to put a great lens on it for that application.
• Canon FF mirrorless is not an if -- it's a when. 'When' could plausibly be 2017 given all the strides they've made with DPAF, viewfinders, touchscreen, etc.

So I don't think 1-2 of those items on my (prior posted) list arriving next year would be a delusional ask. I mean, it's not crazytown like folks pining for EF-S L lenses, f/1.0 primes to make a comeback, or AvTvM's now infamous EF-M 85mm 'fast IS pancake'.

- A

Never said your requests weren't reasonable. My point is that "reasonable" is not the criterion Canon will use, it will be "profitable relative to other products." That can be a straight-up profit projection in the current market, or important competition from another market participant. I might very well buy that 200-600 you described, I'd love to have it for birds. I simply concede an important point: Canon knows the aggregate camera market better than I do, so they don't care a whole lot what I want.

-O

 

[Loswr]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

If that roadmap would be true, it would be very disappointing and only contain 1 out of approx 50 cameras and lenses I have on a personal wish list and would buy (products which all wouldn't be unrealistic looking at the competition and the market in the year 2017):

1DX2 Mirrorless 5Axis
5D4 Mirrorless 5Axis
5D 120MP 5Axis
5D 12MP Low Light 5Axis
5D Astro Camera
Medium Format 100MP Camera
C500III 4K 60fps

14-24/2.8 IS
16-35/2.8 IS
24-70/2.8 IS
70-200/2.8 IS III
200-600/5.6 IS
24-200/3.5-5.6 IS
28-300/3.5-5.6 IS II

16-300/3.5-5.6 IS
17-55/2.8 IS II
18-35/1.8 IS
50-100/1.8 IS
50-150/2.8 IS

12/2.8 IS
14/2.8 IS
18/2 IS
20/1.4 IS
20/1.8 IS
24/1.4 IS
24/1.8 IS
28/1.4 IS
28/1.8 IS
35/1.4 IS
35/1.8 IS
45/2.8 II Tiltshift
50/0.95
50/1.2 IS
50/1.8 IS
60/2 IS Macro
85/1.2 IS
85/1.8 IS
90/2.8 II Tiltshift
100/2 IS Macro
135/2 IS
180/2.8 IS Macro
200/2.8 IS

Lol. First, no one but you cares about 'your personal wishlist'. Second, you have six f/1.4 or faster lenses with IS that ' wouldn't be unrealistic looking at the competition' so please list all the competitor lenses that are f/1.2 or f/1.4 with VC/IS. Third, you've got cameras on there that are ridiculuosly silly.

Granted, there are a few products on your list that make sense...but hey, if you throw enough crap at the wall, some will stick. :

 

[Loswr]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

I simply concede an important point: Canon knows the aggregate camera market better than I do, so they don't care a whole lot what I want.

Canon knows the aggregate camera market better than any of us.

Well, except for AvTvM...

 

[Chaitanya]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Still no replacement to prehistoric 50mm Compact macro or update to ancient 180mm usm macro. Also how about Rt(slave mode only) upgrade to speedlight 320ex? That would be useful for a people wanting RT flashes on budget.

What would you like to improve on the 180L? Just improving for it's own sake to rise the prices? The lens is perfect as is... still one of the sharpest ever made, after 2 decades.

like other user posted: improved af speed and added IS. also there was a patent that Canon filed for 180mm macro that went beyond 1x max mag ratio so that would be insanely useful. I have used Sigma 180mm f2.8 Macro and Af is very slow it takes good 1.5-2secs to lock af and it lacks weather sealing.

 

[Luds34]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

I just want to see a 6DII announcement ;D

You and I both!

 

[tron]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

If 6DII's sensor is better than 5DIV's one (I do not want to repeat other threads here) but does NOT have 4K ..




























... I will most probably buy it ;D

 

[jeffa4444]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

I simply concede an important point: Canon knows the aggregate camera market better than I do, so they don't care a whole lot what I want.

Canon knows the aggregate camera market better than any of us.

Well, except for AvTvM...

They don't always get it right the XC10 was a good example of that come to think of it so was the C500! They also didn't foresee the impact of smart phones on compact cameras.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

To be fair, no-one foresaw the impact of camera phones on the compacts market. Not even the smartphone makers - what really allowed smartphones to take off was social network sites and the two have fed off each other ever since.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Still no replacement to prehistoric 50mm Compact macro or update to ancient 180mm usm macro. Also how about Rt(slave mode only) upgrade to speedlight 320ex? That would be useful for a people wanting RT flashes on budget.

What would you like to improve on the 180L? Just improving for it's own sake to rise the prices? The lens is perfect as is... still one of the sharpest ever made, after 2 decades.

What little test data exists on the 180L in a comparable format is hard to come by, but you might consider this:

DXO @ 22MP (5D3):

135L: 20 / 22 P-Mpix (in DXO speak, the lens is nearly outresolving the sensor here)
180L: 14 / 22 P-Mpix

DXO @ 50 MP (5DS R):

135L: 30 / 50 P-Mpix (where a lot of very good L lenses end up)
180L: 16 / 50 P-Mpix (this is a level of performance you'd allege the lens isn't rated for / doesn't get rewarded for the 50 MP canvas)

So there is always room for improvement. They could always refresh the optics and give it the 100L treatment: give it IS and fast enough AF to serve as a non-macro lens. I've never personally used it, but I've always read the current 180L's AF was quite slow.

Also, why not sprinkle some innovation in there and find a way to streamline focus stacking? If we can have a digital focus scale on a lens, we could pipe focus stacking increments to the display and show where to set the focus ring in precise increments.

- A

 

[Loswr]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

I simply concede an important point: Canon knows the aggregate camera market better than I do, so they don't care a whole lot what I want.

Canon knows the aggregate camera market better than any of us.

Well, except for AvTvM...

They don't always get it right the XC10 was a good example of that come to think of it so was the C500! They also didn't foresee the impact of smart phones on compact cameras.

No one is suggesting they are perfect or omniscient, just that they know far more than individuals posting here. Take douglaurent, for example, with his personal wish list of 50 'not unreasonable' products, most of which are very unreasonable with current technology and the state of the market. Or AvTvM, with his 'millions of people would buy an EF-M 85mm f/2.8 IS'.