*UPDATED* Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

[ahsanford]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Why would a Canon shooter lust after a Nikon 14-24? Compared to the Canon 12-24 it is a very poor performer, sure the Nikon was better than any UWA zoom from Canon some time ago, now, not so much.

I don't, but people on this very forum do. They want f/2.8 speed and ultra-ultrawide FOV. And for some stupid reason they think that overlaps in FL ranges with their zooms (16-35s overlapping with 24-70s) is uncool.

But I am not their publicist. They can speak for themselves. I'll be happily snapping away with my stellar 16-35 f/4L IS that is conveniently front filterable and lets me use ND grads smaller than the city of Cleveland.

- A

 

[Antono Refa]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Or, from Canon's point of view, why sell cameras intended for use with FD lenses? So it could finally sell all those 30 years old FD lenses still in it's inventory?

Oh ye of little vision. FD is but one example of using old glass.

Want to try out that Nikkor 14-24 f/2.8? Their new 105mm f/1.4? A lot of Canonites sure do.

And Canon corporate would love to see potential pullthrough of Nikon users who don't need to sell all their glass to use a Canon body.

Canon would gain in camera sales, and lose in lens sales from customers who have a Canon camera and would suddenly be able to buy Nikon lenses.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Canon would gain in camera sales, and lose in lens sales from customers who have a Canon camera and would suddenly be able to buy Nikon lenses.

Less than you think. It's not like Sony would have us believe -- pick any lens you want and it's awesome! The AF with these adaptors is far from flawless from what I've read.

So I see this more as a nice option for Canon folks to dabble with a wider array of lenses or Nikon folks to give a Canon body a try with their existing glass. But surely native mount glass is the overwhelming way people would use such a body.

- A

 

[hubie]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

If that roadmap would be true, it would be very disappointing and only contain 1 out of approx 50 cameras and lenses I have on a personal wish list and would buy (products which all wouldn't be unrealistic looking at the competition and the market in the year 2017):

1DX2 Mirrorless 5Axis
5D4 Mirrorless 5Axis
5D 120MP 5Axis
5D 12MP Low Light 5Axis
5D Astro Camera
Medium Format 100MP Camera
C500III 4K 60fps

14-24/2.8 IS
16-35/2.8 IS
24-70/2.8 IS
70-200/2.8 IS III
200-600/5.6 IS
24-200/3.5-5.6 IS
28-300/3.5-5.6 IS II

16-300/3.5-5.6 IS
17-55/2.8 IS II
18-35/1.8 IS
50-100/1.8 IS
50-150/2.8 IS

12/2.8 IS
14/2.8 IS
18/2 IS
20/1.4 IS
20/1.8 IS
24/1.4 IS
24/1.8 IS
28/1.4 IS
28/1.8 IS
35/1.4 IS
35/1.8 IS
45/2.8 II Tiltshift
50/0.95
50/1.2 IS
50/1.8 IS
60/2 IS Macro
85/1.2 IS
85/1.8 IS
90/2.8 II Tiltshift
100/2 IS Macro
135/2 IS
180/2.8 IS Macro
200/2.8 IS

Your wishlist drives me nuts... why you wish to have a 70-200 f/2.8 is iii when the ii is perfectly alright already? I get the "I want something new" part of it but this leaves the impression of your wishlist being rather childish... althout buying one or the other item would leave you up not buying 2 to 3 other ones remaining, e.g. a 50 prime or one of the 5Ds (without low pass I guess).

 

[StudentOfLight]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Perhaps you haven't yet heard of Nano-USM:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=17726

The two Nano USM lenses I am aware of are $549 and $599. That's hardly a kit price. That's a midgrade feature on budget lens. I'm just not seeing it. Budget lenses get STM, sorry.

Now a refresh to the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM would be a great candidate for Nano USM, but (a) that'll be a $999 lens and (b) I'm not sure Canon wants an APS-C owner to be tethered to a large EF-S investment ever again, so I doubt they'd ever refresh that lens. They want EF-S to have a hard cap of good but not great to entice APS-C folks to buy EF lenses and think about a move to FF.

- A

He said:

"To make everyone happy:

Lenses:

EF-S 18-55mm f/2.8 II IS USM for still photographers with ring-type USM and real FTM support
EF-V 18-55mm f/2.8 IS STM II for videographes"

According to B&H the fast APS-C standard zoom (17-55/2.8) is significantly more expensive than run-of-the-mill vari-aperture zooms:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/425812-USA/Canon_1242B002AA_EF_S_17_55mm_f_2_8_IS.html

 

[Woody]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Welcome to CHWAC (Canon Haters Without a Clue). You should be receiving your welcome packet from the organization's president, AvTvM, in the mail soon, including the Olympus mug and the coveted "I Canon" bumper sticker.

LOL

 

[Woody]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

I don't, but people on this very forum do. They want f/2.8 speed and ultra-ultrawide FOV. And for some stupid reason they think that overlaps in FL ranges with their zooms (16-35s overlapping with 24-70s) is uncool.

But I am not their publicist. They can speak for themselves. I'll be happily snapping away with my stellar 16-35 f/4L IS that is conveniently front filterable and lets me use ND grads smaller than the city of Cleveland.

LOL

 

[Antono Refa]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Canon would gain in camera sales, and lose in lens sales from customers who have a Canon camera and would suddenly be able to buy Nikon lenses.

Less than you think. It's not like Sony would have us believe -- pick any lens you want and it's awesome! The AF with these adapters is far from flawless from what I've read.

I have an EF 11-24mm f/4, and focus it manually (live view with 10x magnification) on a tripod. If I had the option to buy the Nikkor 14-24mm five years ago, I might not have bought the Canon 11-24mm today.

Portrait photographers might do the same with longer lenses, e.g. as long as 200mm or even 300mm.

That's certainly a relatively small portion, but its good money nonetheless.

 

[vscd]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Still no replacement to prehistoric 50mm Compact macro or update to ancient 180mm usm macro. Also how about Rt(slave mode only) upgrade to speedlight 320ex? That would be useful for a people wanting RT flashes on budget.

What would you like to improve on the 180L? Just improving for it's own sake to rise the prices? The lens is perfect as is... still one of the sharpest ever made, after 2 decades.

I went with the Sigma 180mm f/2.8 OS, rather than the Canon 180L, because the former had a half stop extra aperture wide open, and ~4 stop IS. Those made it better for my purposes. A Canon lens with those features would be an improvement, even if the optical performance was kept the same.

Yes. f2.8 is very important on Macrolenses... can't live without shallow depth of field. I think weathersealing is more important in the field... and Sigma does nothing about it. I don't think it's impossible to improve the 135L but there are much more lenses who are more necessary to get improved like the 50mm 1.4 or the 50L.

 

[douglaurent]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

It's possible to shoot stable, handheld 800mm full frame equivalent photos and 920mm videos for less than 2000 euros.

Except it's not the same. especially in conditions people really shoot with those telephotos - such as poor light and subject isolation is entirely different with what an f/8 or f/11 equivalent telephoto?

f4 on MFT is like f4 on full frame in terms of transmission and brightness.
And what does that have to do with the effect of image stabilization?
Logically a much smaller camera should be much shakier in itself, and a smaller body should have less space for effective in body stabilization.

read much? know much?

seems you need to shoot with some of those 300 pieces of camera gear.

pros will use the 1DX and the D5's because of the ability to shoot in poor light with increased subject isolation, something your example simply cannot do. Not to mention the 1DX,etc has far better and more advanced AF systems that work much better with major defocus to handle that subject isolation.

The point is that Sony is very close to implement all the last advantages Canon has in their DSLRs. On the other hand, Canon seems to be a decade away to implement all the many precious features the other manufacturers have to offer.

Aside from that, subject isolation with MFT is far better than most people think, as there are several f0.95 lenses and also speed booster options. If you want to have a bokeh orgy, you can have it with MFT as well.

 

[douglaurent]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Yes, that pretty much sums me up, the guy who owns approx 50 cameras and 250 lenses including all new Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic etc stuff. Someone who owns and uses that clearly will have far less knowledge than a Canon user who only knows and uses 1 body and 3 lenses. That is pretty logical.

comments like this are funny. if you own 50 cameras, and 250 lenses then I suggest you get out your mom's basement, realize the sky is blue and get off the internet.

You know this site is about the future of Canon equipment and not Breitbart, right? Seems you have hit the wrong bookmark.

you know that idiotic comments will be treated as such as well? Good grief.

if mirrorless was so popular it wouldn't languishing with an increased 5% marketshare penetration over 5+ years with additional companies providing mirrorless in that timespan.

and m43's? really?

Olympus can't even sell 500,000 cameras per year.

and sounds like half of them were sold to you.

Even if Olympus or Panasonic would only sell 1 camera each year: the fact remains that their body stabilization is brilliant, and even more with stabilized lenses. Canon has no body stabilization, and even worse - the key lenses 11-24/4, 16-35/2.8III, 24-70/2.8II, 35/1.4II, 50/1.2+1.8 and 85/1.2+1.8 don't have IS as well.

This means if you want to have some sort of stabilization, you need f4 lenses, and suddenly you are on MFT bokeh levels.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

The point is that Sony is very close to implement all the last advantages Canon has in their DSLRs. On the other hand, Canon seems to be a decade away to implement all the many precious features the other manufacturers have to offer.

Sony being 'very close' does not cut any ice when you need those 'advantages' - how do you know it will not take Sony a decade to get to Canon's level?
As for 'precious features'... are you Gollum in disguise? If they were that 'precious' then sales of Sony would be far higher but instead they appeal to a select few.

As you seem to own all the significant camera marques answer me these questions:
- why do you own Sony
- Why do you own Canon
- What situations do you decide to use any particular one

 

[douglaurent]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Yes, that pretty much sums me up, the guy who owns approx 50 cameras and 250 lenses including all new Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic etc stuff. Someone who owns and uses that clearly will have far less knowledge than a Canon user who only knows and uses 1 body and 3 lenses. That is pretty logical.

Are you serious about 50 cameras and 250 lenses? If you are, I can only conclude one of two things. You own a rental house and keep this stock so others can rent it or you have some serious hoarding issues and need professional help.

I would say that I agree with your point that someone who owns 50 bodies and 250 lenses probably does have far less knowledge than a professional who consistently uses one body and three lenses. The normal arc in most professions, including photography, is for someone to start out with a limited range of equipment, acquire more equipment as they progress and then as they master their craft begin shedding some of that equipment to focus only on the basics so they can get most comfortable and knowledgeable about their equipment.

Most of the really great photographers keep their equipment fairly simple.

Yes, I rent out all the equipment as well. Plus it's a write off, and especially the lenses keep most of their value and are some sort of wealth diversification. All in all this sort of ownership is nothing crazy at all and isn't something to brag about or that can be admired. But having all tools available and being able to compare is a great help. In the end I only would like to use 1 camera and 1 lens for the best possible results. It's just not possible yet, and for each project there are different needs regarding weight, logistics, focal lengths etc. Right now unfortunately it is necessary to own Canon EF, Nikon F, Sony E, MFT and medium format products if you want to be able to achieve the best in any niche. Less than approx 5-8 cameras and 100+ lenses won't do it! Example astro photography: no way around a D810A with F-mount lenses. The list would go on like this for any specialty project.

 

[douglaurent]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Hey douglaurent, a year ago you stated this regarding Canon:

By 2017 Sony will have destroyed their business if they don't wake up and come around with some better specs as well.

So did Canon come around with better specs? Since you have bashed the 1D X II and the 5DIV and only bought one of each instead of the couple of dozen of each you would have bought if they'd have had better specs, I'm assuming your answer to that is 'no'.

That means Sony must be pretty close to destroying Canon's business, since it's almost 2017. Except that so far this year, Canon has gained ILC market share and Sony has lost it.

Welcome to CHWAC (Canon Haters Without a Clue). You should be receiving your welcome packet from the organization's president, AvTvM, in the mail soon, including the Olympus mug and the coveted "I Canon" bumper sticker.

Didn't know that the year 2017 already is over at the beginning of december 2016? Sony will release a fusion of an A99II and an A7RII, which means it clearly tops the 1DX2 and 5D4. If Canon has no answer to that until their next 2020 product refreshment, there is no reason to buy such a Canon camera between 2017 and 2019.

Canon also will hardly be happy to have a better marketshare than competitors, when they sell significantly less 5D4s now than 5D3s in former years. And they will continue to sell less, if their only strategy is to raise prices and keep innovation on a low level. There are no competitors like DJI who come up with excellent and unexpected innovations every few months. People get used to that and appreciate it. Nobody is excited about Canon on the other hand, because the quality and features of their new products are good and sometimes very good - but not overfulfilling, and most of all very expensive. Like a 16-35/2.8III which is very sharp, but costs a lot and has no IS.

 

[douglaurent]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

If that roadmap would be true, it would be very disappointing and only contain 1 out of approx 50 cameras and lenses I have on a personal wish list and would buy (products which all wouldn't be unrealistic looking at the competition and the market in the year 2017):

1DX2 Mirrorless 5Axis
5D4 Mirrorless 5Axis
5D 120MP 5Axis
5D 12MP Low Light 5Axis
5D Astro Camera
Medium Format 100MP Camera
C500III 4K 60fps

14-24/2.8 IS
16-35/2.8 IS
24-70/2.8 IS
70-200/2.8 IS III
200-600/5.6 IS
24-200/3.5-5.6 IS
28-300/3.5-5.6 IS II

16-300/3.5-5.6 IS
17-55/2.8 IS II
18-35/1.8 IS
50-100/1.8 IS
50-150/2.8 IS

12/2.8 IS
14/2.8 IS
18/2 IS
20/1.4 IS
20/1.8 IS
24/1.4 IS
24/1.8 IS
28/1.4 IS
28/1.8 IS
35/1.4 IS
35/1.8 IS
45/2.8 II Tiltshift
50/0.95
50/1.2 IS
50/1.8 IS
60/2 IS Macro
85/1.2 IS
85/1.8 IS
90/2.8 II Tiltshift
100/2 IS Macro
135/2 IS
180/2.8 IS Macro
200/2.8 IS

Your wishlist drives me nuts... why you wish to have a 70-200 f/2.8 is iii when the ii is perfectly alright already? I get the "I want something new" part of it but this leaves the impression of your wishlist being rather childish... althout buying one or the other item would leave you up not buying 2 to 3 other ones remaining, e.g. a 50 prime or one of the 5Ds (without low pass I guess).

The new Nikon 70-200/2.8 VR FL is better than the Canon II version. As you can see in most lens releases of the last 5 years, optics, features and stabilization can improve big time. Especially for 50-120MP, Canon will be able to release a better 70-200/2.8. This is one of the releases that will happen anyway.

I personally own all comparable existing products of this list, and would buy all of them. A 24/1.8 (like in Nikons portfolio) can make sense on top of a 24/1.4 because of size and weight. The only lens I would cross of that list is the 35/1.8 IS, as there is a good 35/2 IS already. All the rest I can justify with many arguments.

 

[douglaurent]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

The point is that Sony is very close to implement all the last advantages Canon has in their DSLRs. On the other hand, Canon seems to be a decade away to implement all the many precious features the other manufacturers have to offer.

Sony being 'very close' does not cut any ice when you need those 'advantages' - how do you know it will not take Sony a decade to get to Canon's level?
As for 'precious features'... are you Gollum in disguise? If they were that 'precious' then sales of Sony would be far higher but instead they appeal to a select few.

As you seem to own all the significant camera marques answer me these questions:
- why do you own Sony
- Why do you own Canon
- What situations do you decide to use any particular one

With the A99II and A7RII Sony is already on Canon's level in 99% of all relevant features, I doubt it will take them 10 instead of 1 year to release a fusion of both cameras for E-mount. Surely Canon could do the same, but their marketing department still lives in the last millennium and avoids faster innovation.

I don't even want to use any other system than Canon. But there are dozens of shooting situations that did require other manufacturers products, or they are simply more convenient. Months ago I have put lists with 20-30 of the things you still can't do with Canon products - or you need multiple Canon cameras, carry much more weight or spend much more money to do the same.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Didn't know that the year 2017 already is over at the beginning of december 2016? Sony will release a fusion of an A99II and an A7RII, which means it clearly tops the 1DX2 and 5D4.

Wow! you can tell the manufacturers which cameras will be the best before they are even released? You mean how many Sony admirers were looking forward to the class-leading A99 only to find it has been crippled?

Canon also will hardly be happy to have a better marketshare than competitors, when they sell significantly less 5D4s now than 5D3s in former years.

Two months after its release and you can predict sales volume and how successful a camera is going to be? Genius! I suggest Canon and Sony save themselves gazillions on market research and hire you.

There are no competitors like DJI who come up with excellent and unexpected innovations every few months.

It is easy to get excited by a company producing a niche product. let's see how they cope with mass market gear catering to the specialised needs of those who use cameras like the 7D2, 6D and 1Dx shall we?

People get used to that and appreciate it. Nobody is excited about Canon on the other hand, because the quality and features of their new products are good and sometimes very good - but not overfulfilling...

People get excited about the new supercar, or marvel at the technology and ideas of small-factory purpose designed vehicles. But at the end of the day, a vast majority of the population need a car to carry their goods home from the shopping mall and take the kids to football practice. That is where the money comes from to innovate.


You bring up some excellent points but your conclusions are often shakey. I can easily see camera industry going the way of the biotechnology and medicines where the technology is now very mature and what will sell is the finer points and that takes ideas as well as innovation and no company can do that alone. I can see the likes of Canon forming tie-ins with companies like DJI or smaller research units (if they haven't already) and getting a pool of ideas. But at the end of the day Canon and Nikon have built their reputation on producing reliable products that do the job that a vast majority or professionals need them to do. And in business you break away from your core business at your peril - the secret is knowing when to do so. You get it right and you can introduce solutions to problems that the professional never knew he had and a typical example is Canon's introduction of video to a stills camera.

 

[Mikehit]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

I don't even want to use any other system than Canon.

So despite your protestations, Canon are actually doing a lot right. You have all that gear from so many manufacturers and you still prefer to use Canon. Yet from what you write anyone would think they are on the downward slope and have been for a while.

So which is it - either Canon has problems or Canon is getting it right in 90% of the situations and what you are talking about is wanting them to produce a camera that does 100%. No manufacturer will ever do that these days which sort of puts all your comments in context.

So tell me, from your point of view let's hear what canon are doing right?

 

[Loswr]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Didn't know that the year 2017 already is over at the beginning of december 2016? Sony will release a fusion of an A99II and an A7RII, which means it clearly tops the 1DX2 and 5D4. If Canon has no answer to that until their next 2020 product refreshment, there is no reason to buy such a Canon camera between 2017 and 2019.

Canon also will hardly be happy to have a better marketshare than competitors, when they sell significantly less 5D4s now than 5D3s in former years. And they will continue to sell less, if their only strategy is to raise prices and keep innovation on a low level. There are no competitors like DJI who come up with excellent and unexpected innovations every few months. People get used to that and appreciate it. Nobody is excited about Canon on the other hand, because the quality and features of their new products are good and sometimes very good - but not overfulfilling, and most of all very expensive. Like a 16-35/2.8III which is very sharp, but costs a lot and has no IS.

So a single high-end model from Sony, which they might release in 2017, is going to 'destroy Canon's business' within a year? Even a CHWAC as clueless as you must realize how utterly stupid that sounds. Or are you now saying you were wrong earlier, that Canon will not be destroyed by 2017? As for, 'no reason to buy such a Canon camera between 2017 and 2019', who are you speaking for...yourself? You and those 50 friends you claim to have who think just like you? The 50% of all people who are disappoineted in the 5DIV? Or the whole universe? :

I must have missed Canon publishing unit sales for the first few months and future projections for the 5DIV, and I also missed the unit sales data for the 5DIII. What they did say was, "Within the Imaging System Business Unit, sales volume for interchangeable-lens digital cameras grew compared with same period of the previous year owing to healthy demand for the advanced-amateur-model EOS 80D and EOS 5D Mark IV digital SLR cameras, which were launched this year." So please, share the data supporting your conclusion that Canon is selling, "...significantly less 5D4s now than 5D3s in former years." Oh wait, let me guess...you bought several 5DIIIs but only one 5DIV (plus your earlier statement that '50% of people aren't satisfied with the 5D4', also based on nothing but the nonsense in your head).

People seem to be excited about Sony...well, at least a handful of people who post on the Internet are excited about Sony. That's been true for several years now. The thing is, people are actually buying Canon, as the market share data clearly indicate. It's funny, you acknowledge that Canon makes good and sometimes very good products, the market data show that people are buying those products, they are gaining market share at the expense of other brands, and yet somehow Canon is doomed. Well, I guess that's what passes for logic in the empty space between the ears of a CHWAC.

 

[vscd]

Re: Here's an Updated 2017 Canon Roadmap

Aside from that, subject isolation with MFT is far better than most people think, as there are several f0.95 lenses and also speed booster options. If you want to have a bokeh orgy, you can have it with MFT as well.

Not really, because the 0.95 open aperture pictures are unusable. Or at least nothing compared to an equivalent f1.9 Picture on a Canon Lens like 85L or 50mm 1.4 @f2. The only lens which I experienced to be a good competitor is the APS-C Fujinon 56mm 1.2 which gives roughly a 85mm f1.8; enough to blur a good portrait because it's usable at open aperture. Rumours say the 25 f1.2 of Olympus is great at open Aperture, whcih i believe really is, so you get a f2.4... that's it.

Don't get me wrong... i mostly shoot at f2.2 or f2.8 with my 85L, so MFT is great. But bokeh-orgy? No way. And don#t forget there are f0.95/f1.0 lenses for fullframe, too. How do you want to emulate that? f0.5 on MFT?