Upgrade Path Advice...

[pjn0629]

So, right now I have a 40D, I really have no complaints about the performance of the autofocus or burst fire rate, and the image quality is fine when there is enough light. I do find the colors look a little flat straight out of the camera, and the dynamic range is lacking compared to what I've seen out of the newer stuff out there. Been shooting with it for 7 years, and this is the first time I've felt like my technology is holding me back. I've got some decent glass..(27-70 and 70-200 2.8 L zooms and a 50 1.4 prime) I mostly shoot vacation stuff, family, some portraits, some street photography, and lately some bicycle racing. I mostly shoot cyclocross, because that's when I'm in the environment with enough time to shoot (ie not racing myself the whole time i'm at the race) in CX the speeds are pretty low even the pros are in the low 20mph range, and the course is fairly predictable (riding between taped of segments). Having found no shortcomings in the AF of my 40d, I've been leaning towards a 6D, so I can get a significant bump in image quality, and gain some modern functionality (GPS tagging would be nice because the races are all over the place). But there's the nagging "sports" qualifier there, and the 7Dii has framerateand autofocus in spades, but I'm not too sure that it'd be enough of a boost to image quality to justify the purchase.

tl;dr
have a 40d, shoot predictable sports, already have nice glass
want a 6D for best image quality/$
7Dii is best sports shooter in my budget
which one to buy?

 

[ScottyP]

You seem to know the answer already. You don't shoot sports terribly seriously and you say your AF is fine for what you do. A 6d will give you a modern full frame sensor, which will be a big improvement in low light/high ISO. With a 6d, you will definitely experience a benefit in the portraits, family shots, etc. you list as primary interests.

If you felt like stretching the budget to about $2,600 U.S., you could get a 5d3 and have the FF and the AF in one package.

 

[pjn0629]

I just don't want to end up "kicking myself" down the line for getting a 6D, everyone keeps griping about its AF, but if the AF on my 40D is good enough, how bad can a 7 year newer camera be? (and strictly volumetrically speaking, I shoot more sports than anything else by a large margin)

 

[brad-man]

Definitely the 6D. If you will be satisfied with an incremental improvement in AF and IQ, the 70D for $800 http://www.adorama.com/ICA70DZ.html?emailprice=t&sub=bund-27906826&utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=rflaid62259 would probably be a more suitable choice than the 7Dll, since the IQ will be about the same and you don't appear to need the extras that the 7Dll offers. You already have excellent glass for full frame so if you're not "reach limited", I would go for the greatest improvement in the quality of your photos in various lighting conditions.

 

[ecka]

tl;dr
have a 40d, shoot predictable sports, already have nice glass
want a 6D for best image quality/$
7Dii is best sports shooter in my budget
which one to buy?

5Diii

 

[wsmith96]

I agree that you may also want to consider the 70D. Nice focus system and frame rate that may also satisfy your sports needs. I struggle with this question myself.

 

[FTb-n]

tl;dr
have a 40d, shoot predictable sports, already have nice glass
want a 6D for best image quality/$
7Dii is best sports shooter in my budget
which one to buy?

5Diii

+1

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

AF of the 6D is just fine at the center point, but it tends to be weaker at the outside points. Certainly better than my five 40D's were. As much as I liked my 40D's, its a pleasure to use FF. The sharpness of every image in the central area will improve, but there is usually weaker edges than a crop.

I never had a issue shooting action with any of my cameras, I rarely used the machine gun approach, but just relied on timing and anticipating. I did use my 30D once to try and capture the end of a bull whip as it breaks the speed of sound. That was difficult. It is not a wonderful image, shot at 17mm and then cropped severely. The person was supposed to hold the paper in his hands while the whip cut it in two. In actuality, they had carefully pre-measured the distance so the tip of the whip fell short. The paper had already been torn, the person just pulled it apart at the right moment. Its Show business! I also made a Video DVD of their show for them which they copied and sent to potential venues who might hire them to do their show. There were three who used the whips, and a girl who held flowers that were actually cut with the whip. The guy that did that was amazingly accurate.

 

[mnclayshooter]

Try renting or borrowing a 6D for a weekend. You'll know quickly if the "AF gripes" are real or not.

I've said all I can say about the AF elsewhere. It's full frame... a big improvement as you said. It's not a 5DIII... It doesn't completely suck as some would make you believe either and costs a shade over half of a 5D.

 

[StudentOfLight]

7D-II or 70D

 

[BozillaNZ]

D750

Why do you need to take the 6D's crappy focusing system?!

 

[eninja]

just my 2c.

I got my 6D almost 2 years ago. And I recently got 70D as second body.
6D center AF point got horizontal and vertical phase detection, outer AF point mostly horizontal only.
70D has 19 points in total, all cross type, can do zone AF (means a group of collected pixel can be selected to do AF). Both camera got AF micro adjustment (reason I replace 700d with 70D).

I did a quick test of AF of 70D vs center point of 6D. Both are good.
On 6D, you must apply technique to find good target to focus in return you get amazing low light photos.
On 70D, you can just use zone AF, less worry on focusing than 6D.
But then the view finder. 6D viewfinder is very bright.
Image quality, I tested indoor at night, with fluorescent light. 6D just amazing with no noise. even in 25600 IS0, when doing etter. 6D still amazing.

70D got touch screen, which I think I don't need. It does not have proximity sensor unlike 700D. When I put my face. screen still on.

Sorry for my English, and my quick typing.

 

[Datfish]

Another 2c from someone who shoots 7D and 5D3..

IT DEPENDS on what you see yourself doing MAINLY in the future.

The reach and speed of the 7d2 would be awesome for action/wildlife! Relative to you 40D it would deliver a significant upgrade in IQ and all things else I should imagine ( never shot a 40d) ., and great durability and build quality. IT looks far and away THE BEST crop Sports and action camera EVER, and pretty handy at all other things as well.

I changed up to FF 2 years ago , but kept my 7d, for use when I wanted more reach but that reduced dramatically when I stopped shooting college sports as much ( son grew up). I can assure you, that the difference in IQ FF to crop is noticeable if you go the 6d route but you will also need to get used to the change in effective Focal length of your glass. You currently have

38-112 effective from the 24-70
112-320 effective from the 70-200
85 effective from the 50

If you change to FF they will now be "true to label" without the 1.6 X effect the crop sensor 40D, and that is significant. You will lose significant length but gain significant "width" relative to what you have now. If you currently using the "longer" ends of your 24-70 and 70-200, you need to realise that you won't have the same reach with the 6D, so you'll need new glass or a 1.4 Extender at least for the 70-200, losing 1 stop in the process. On the other hand if your planning on doing more landscape , street and portraits the change will give wider "wide angle" options/shallower DOF ( but you will probably end up even wider than 24mm if that's where you end up )

If it was me I would first up choose between FF or crop sensor .
To do that I would rent/borrow a 6D/5D whatever MK and see what you think of the FF "reduced reach" relative to your 40D, using your glass. I think that's a BIG QUESTION for you.
Once you have chosen the sensor size then choose the model that best suits budget and style

Full Frame Sensor Options :6d or 5d3
Crop Sensor Options :7d2 or 70D

As far as IQ and ISO performance try Imaging Resources "comparometer" to have a look at some identical sample images taken by the various model options you're looking at, across iso and aperture ranges. ( Note 7d2 samples a little limited but it won't be long a and the whole range of samples will be filled!)

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

Hope that helps.


Why not the 70D?....just my opinion but I think it will be upgraded long before we see a 7d mkiii AND from the specs and early reports it looks an awesome crop camera....... the BEST of canons stable. The 70D is great too, but not in same class...The 7D2will do anything the 70D can plus loads more.................. but that is just me and you need to consider your budget! 8)

 

[meneses24]

Right now I am in the same situation, I have a 40D and trying to figure out what fits me better. I am thinking between the 5d3 (FF and top notch quality/specs/AF/DR), and the 7DII( 5d3 with no FF sensor IMHO). As well as all those reviews out there still give you some doubts about if those are true and honest reviews or they have some spices from Canon to help their purchases increase and pre orders). I have a 70-300L, I don´t mind loosing some range, if later Canon is going to launch the 100-400 II. Perhaps I can get a Kenko 1.4x extender, which in some sites I´ve read that it works with this lens

 

[Datfish]

I have the Kenko Teleplus 300 1.4x DGX. It does "work", you can AF at f/8 on the 7D, however it's pretty much a hunt-fest. Getting a lock is an exceptional rarity unless you have exceptional light. Even when you manage to find that exceptional light (which is often not the most flattering light), the IQ of the Kenko with the IQ of the old 100-400 makes for a rather mushy end result.

Another problem with the Kenko is it mucks with metering. If you are not shooting full manual, you have to account for about a 1-stop over-exposure. The TC mis-reports the aperture of the lens, which is why it can work for "f/8 AF" on a camera like the 7D. The body requires accurate aperture reporting to meter properly...so if your not paying attention, you can easily overexpose when using the Kenko. Even with manual, if you rely on the exposure meter to set your exposures, you have to account for that extra stop. That sometimes results in the exposure indicator getting pegged, so you don't really know what the exposure is.

Just my 2c worth again BUT the Canon mkiii Extenders ( 1.4iii and 2xiii) work fine so if the extender route is an option get the Canon variety.
I really don't see the point of compromising there , when you have $3000-$5000 ( or more) in Canon bodies and L glass, don't mess it up with a cheap 3rd Party extender, for the sake of saving a couple of hundred .

I have used my 7D almost exclusively at times with a 1.4xiii and a 70-200 IS USM ii shooting sports and the drop in IQ is marginal. Using the 2x is more noticeable, but still very usable, and a truck load cheaper than the alternative of longer L glass.

Have also used same extenders on an EF 300 F/4 L IS USM with the same comments on relative performance.
That said a two stop loss of max aperture is a challenge when you're starting at F4 and mounting to a 7D.....I have since sold the 300

Note for Meneses24.....I failed to realise that your EF 70-300L won't accommodate the Canon 1.4X iii...Bummer!! :'(!

 

[Khalai]

Note for Meneses24.....I failed to realise that your EF 70-300L won't accommodate the Canon 1.4X iii...Bummer!! :'(!

It will, but only in 260-300mm range. Nothing official, but it works. Check Bryan's TDP site...

 

[pjn0629]

Another 2c from someone who shoots 7D and 5D3..

IT DEPENDS on what you see yourself doing MAINLY in the future.

The reach and speed of the 7d2 would be awesome for action/wildlife! Relative to you 40D it would deliver a significant upgrade in IQ and all things else I should imagine ( never shot a 40d) ., and great durability and build quality. IT looks far and away THE BEST crop Sports and action camera EVER, and pretty handy at all other things as well.

I changed up to FF 2 years ago , but kept my 7d, for use when I wanted more reach but that reduced dramatically when I stopped shooting college sports as much ( son grew up). I can assure you, that the difference in IQ FF to crop is noticeable if you go the 6d route but you will also need to get used to the change in effective Focal length of your glass. You currently have

38-112 effective from the 24-70
112-320 effective from the 70-200
85 effective from the 50

If you change to FF they will now be "true to label" without the 1.6 X effect the crop sensor 40D, and that is significant. You will lose significant length but gain significant "width" relative to what you have now. If you currently using the "longer" ends of your 24-70 and 70-200, you need to realise that you won't have the same reach with the 6D, so you'll need new glass or a 1.4 Extender at least for the 70-200, losing 1 stop in the process. On the other hand if your planning on doing more landscape , street and portraits the change will give wider "wide angle" options/shallower DOF ( but you will probably end up even wider than 24mm if that's where you end up )

If it was me I would first up choose between FF or crop sensor .
To do that I would rent/borrow a 6D/5D whatever MK and see what you think of the FF "reduced reach" relative to your 40D, using your glass. I think that's a BIG QUESTION for you.
Once you have chosen the sensor size then choose the model that best suits budget and style

Full Frame Sensor Options :6d or 5d3
Crop Sensor Options :7d2 or 70D

As far as IQ and ISO performance try Imaging Resources "comparometer" to have a look at some identical sample images taken by the various model options you're looking at, across iso and aperture ranges. ( Note 7d2 samples a little limited but it won't be long a and the whole range of samples will be filled!)

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

Hope that helps.


Why not the 70D?....just my opinion but I think it will be upgraded long before we see a 7d mkiii AND from the specs and early reports it looks an awesome crop camera....... the BEST of canons stable. The 70D is great too, but not in same class...The 7D2will do anything the 70D can plus loads more.................. but that is just me and you need to consider your budget! 8)

I know the 5Diii is on paper, exactly what I'm looking for... But since I'm not making any money at this, I'd like to keep it well under the 2K price point. Reach concerns are minimal since when shooting cx I can get right up to the tape, so, I wind up shooting my 24-70 mostly in the 24-35 range at races. Also, some of my best shots have come without the use of burst shooting. Sometimes the lighting environments are races can be pretty tricky, think small amounts of tree cover on a bright day, or overcast+action...

My main complaint with the 40D is image quality, and now come to think of it, the metering/AE is pretty lame too, but I can usually throw it in manual and do a good enough job.

I'm dubious of the idea that simply packing in double the pixels in the same sensor size will help that much with the 7Dii, and since I can generally get close in, i'm not too concerned with a loss of reach, especially since i can leave the 40d on the 70-200 anyway. But this would also give me more opportunities to bust out the 70-200, which is a better piece of glass than the 24-70. Instead of shooting the 27-70 the entire race.

Also other notes:
the 50 1.4 AF is WAY too slow to keep up with CX racers
now I'm also considering getting a 17-40, and wait for a 6Dii to come out?



I'm attaching a couple of shots from a race a few weeks back to give you a general idea of the shooting conditions...

Note the last one, the ancient Metering system on my 40D totally borked it on that one, but the moment was so awesome, really a shame that it missed so bad.

 

[Datfish]

I know the 5Diii is on paper, exactly what I'm looking for... But since I'm not making any money at this, I'd like to keep it well under the 2K price point. Reach concerns are minimal since when shooting cx I can get right up to the tape, so, I wind up shooting my 24-70 mostly in the 24-35 range at races. Also, some of my best shots have come without the use of burst shooting. Sometimes the lighting environments are races can be pretty tricky, think small amounts of tree cover on a bright day, or overcast+action...

My main complaint with the 40D is image quality, and now come to think of it, the metering/AE is pretty lame too, but I can usually throw it in manual and do a good enough job.

I'm dubious of the idea that simply packing in double the pixels in the same sensor size will help that much with the 7Dii, and since I can generally get close in, i'm not too concerned with a loss of reach, especially since i can leave the 40d on the 70-200 anyway. But this would also give me more opportunities to bust out the 70-200, which is a better piece of glass than the 24-70. Instead of shooting the 27-70 the entire race.

Also other notes:
the 50 1.4 AF is WAY too slow to keep up with CX racers
now I'm also considering getting a 17-40, and wait for a 6Dii to come out?

I'm attaching a couple of shots from a race a few weeks back to give you a general idea of the shooting conditions...

I think you've almost made your decision !!.......Well nearly..........the 6D FF and keeping the 40D for reach?

I've never shot CX so I'm in the dark a bit, but the main thing the 7D2 would deliver over the 6D would be FPS and a far superior AF system.

As far as the Canon line up is concerned you have got a choice between the NEW KING of crop in the fully featured 7D or the entry level and aging Full Frame 6D which lacks a few refinements of the 7d (eg AF, Burst Rate, 1/8000 SS , weather sealed etc) but gains a couple of others ( eg GPS, FF sensor, ?) So it really does come down to a choice between sensor sizes and the advantages of each. Have a look at the imaging resource comparometer images and you will see that the 7D2 loses little in IQ relative to the 6D IMHO.

SO AGAIN IT DEPENDS on where your see your mainstream shooting being done and how.

Its a tough call if you can't decide one way or the other where that shooting will land ...but if it was me in that predicament, id stick with crop and get the 7D Mkii. Why?....I just think it is an all round more flexible option for what I am assuming you need. Whilst you could always shoot two bodies, from experience it is more weight to lug around, and does not offer that much over a single body and a lens change UNLESS the action is very fast and unpredictable!

As for wanting to explore the wide angle options....if staying with crop forget the 17-40 and get the EF-s 10-22 which will give the FF equivalent of 16-35. (I had one for 5 years and loved it on my 7D but recently sold it for 60% of what I paid ,and bought the 16-35 F4 ( brilliant) to match the focal range on my 5D3, and now use the 7D only for sports with Telephoto.)

All up you have a tough choice..................but 7D MKii for me 8)

PS: Thanks for sharing the images ....based on the content I don't think you'll lose anything with either the 6D or the 7d2 .....but you'll have more overall capability with the 7D2......except FF advantages of shallower DOF, wider FOV and some IQ

 

[candc]

I would go for the 70d, if you don't need the hyper fast frame rate and AF of the 7dii. it will give you the same IQ and there are some real bargain deals on it now because everybody is obsessed with the 7dii.

 

[dgatwood]

As far as the Canon line up is concerned you have got a choice between the NEW KING of crop in the fully featured 7D or the entry level and aging Full Frame 6D which lacks a few refinements of the 7d (eg AF, Burst Rate, 1/8000 SS , weather sealed etc) but gains a couple of others ( eg GPS, FF sensor, ?) So it really does come down to a choice between sensor sizes and the advantages of each. Have a look at the imaging resource comparometer images and you will see that the 7D2 loses little in IQ relative to the 6D IMHO.

Both the 7D Mark II and the 6D have GPS. Wi-Fi is the feature that is exclusive to the 6D (and the 70D).