Used 60D or new 650D/T4i?

[locke42]

Okay, I'm in a conundrum. One which lots of people here are probably also experiencing, especially today.

Should I get the 60D (used @ $799 from Canon's used store), get the T4i/650D @ $849, or hold out a couple of months (or probably more) for the 70D?

My only camera, apart from my phone, is an SX10IS, which my cousin calls a "baby-SLR." I love it, but my experience with it has made me loathe poor low light performance with a vengeance. However, I don't know how big of a difference a new sensor will really make, and the 70D will probably be priced out of my range anyway, so that's kind of a reach.

As I understand it, the T4i and 60D are practically identical in performance now, with only a few differences between them. Do the T4i's new features (DIGIC 5, touchscreen, stereo sound) make up for losing the 60D's top LCD, better constructed body, and better battery life?

I'll probably be shooting 75% stills (probably all in RAW+JPEG Fine), 25% video, mainly of family events (35%) and landscapes (65%).

If it makes a difference, the lenses on my current shopping list are the 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 USM and the 50mm f/1.8.

 

[aznable]

for shooting stills the double dial in the 60D is a very nice feature, but if you are also interested in video is better to wait the in depth reviews of the 650D regarding the new hybrid af system in live view mode (with stm and us motors)

 

[drjlo]

I have t2i as my backup body to my 5D III, and if I were you, I would NOT buy anything from Canon at this point, June 2012, with the same tired 18 MP sensor (with hybrid AF thrown in) that's already in my t2i. I've always shot RAW on t2i, and as such, I do not expect any improvement in final RAW IQ with T4i... or 60D or anything that uses the same sensor.

If I was forced for some reason to buy a crop body right now, I would buy the Nikon D3200 for $699, which includes the 18-55 lens unlike the body-only T4i for $849.

 

[locke42]

aznable:
Hmm, I'm not sure how important AF in video is to me. Does it make that big of a difference?

drjlo:
No articulated screen = no purchase. That was one feature I LOVED on my SX10 IS, so I really don't want to be without it.

 

[aznable]

aznable:
Hmm, I'm not sure how important AF in video is to me. Does it make that big of a difference?

drjlo:
No articulated screen = no purchase. That was one feature I LOVED on my SX10 IS, so I really don't want to be without it.

i dont know because i dont shoot video at all, we have to wait the reviews (maybe it will turn ouit in an exceptional value for videos shooting)...your canon 60D it's not going anywahere...maybe it will drop in price while waiting

 

[moreorless]

I have t2i as my backup body to my 5D III, and if I were you, I would NOT buy anything from Canon at this point, June 2012, with the same tired 18 MP sensor (with hybrid AF thrown in) that's already in my t2i. I've always shot RAW on t2i, and as such, I do not expect any improvement in final RAW IQ with T4i... or 60D or anything that uses the same sensor.

If I was forced for some reason to buy a crop body right now, I would buy the Nikon D3200 for $699, which includes the 18-55 lens unlike the body-only T4i for $849.

Surely that depends alot on what he's after, the Canons offers quite a few specs beyond the Nikon(AF, FPS, VF) and to make the most out of those 24 MP I'd guess will need lenses that arent longer range zooms like the 15-85mm/16-85mm.

 

[Albi86]

25% of videos is A LOT. That alone should push you toward the 650D.

Anyway, new sensor and new processor are also quite an interesting upgrade. It's safe to assume that IQ will be a tad better. Just wait a bit for the price to drop to an acceptable level.

 

[locke42]

Well, most of that "25% video" comes from family events, e.g. trips to Disneyland, hanging out in the home, etc. Not really circumstances that would make video AF vital. But I do take a lot of video during those family events. Last time we went to Disney, for example, I took about an hour's worth of video, and only maybe twenty or thirty photos. Still, I don't see myself putting video features above photography features.

When I go on hikes or camping trips, I hardly take any videos at all. That's where the "75% stills" come from. I take TONS of photos during my outdoors trips. For those trips, the ratio flips completely to 99% stills, 1% video (if I take video at all). Typically the only videos I take during my outdoors trips come from my GoPro (I do a lot of extreme sports, e.g. skydiving, bungee, etc.).

As for price dropping, I don't know how much further the 60D could drop. It certainly won't drop below the T4i, and it's already only $50 more expensive.

 

[Albi86]

Well, most of that "25% video" comes from family events, e.g. trips to Disneyland, hanging out in the home, etc. Not really circumstances that would make video AF vital. But I do take a lot of video during those family events. Last time we went to Disney, for example, I took about an hour's worth of video, and only maybe twenty or thirty photos. Still, I don't see myself putting video features above photography features.

When I go on hikes or camping trips, I hardly take any videos at all. That's where the "75% stills" come from. I take TONS of photos during my outdoors trips. For those trips, the ratio flips completely to 99% stills, 1% video (if I take video at all). Typically the only videos I take during my outdoors trips come from my GoPro (I do a lot of extreme sports, e.g. skydiving, bungee, etc.).

As for price dropping, I don't know how much further the 60D could drop. It certainly won't drop below the T4i, and it's already only $50 more expensive.

The 650D has a new sensor and a new processor, I don't see the point of buying a 60D. Neither does Canon, as the 60Da suggests.
I meant to wait for the 650D's price to drop. Around Xmas it should be ok.

 

[locke42]

Christmas is too late for me. Ideally, I'd like to have a DSLR in my hands by the end of the month. July at the latest.

EDIT:
Bloody effing hell, only a 6-shot buffer on the T4i?

 

[Marine03]

Christmas is too late for me. Ideally, I'd like to have a DSLR in my hands by the end of the month. July at the latest.

EDIT:
Bloody effing hell, only a 6-shot buffer on the T4i?

If you have to have a camera in the next month, I'd get a 7D through the Canon loyalty program. Find on craigslist a busted point and shoot call up canon and get a deal on a refurb. Other like for myself I'm holding out hoping for a new sensor in the 70D.

Did I mention the pricing through CLP
Canon 60D - $639.99
Canon 60D with 18-135 IS Kit Lens - $831.36
Canon 7D - $1,087.20

 

[Overhodet]

It is the perfect crop Canon camera available today. Over the rebel series it has a larger capacity battery and a larger grip. LCD screen on top and larger viewfinder with a pentaprism. Dual control dials and better quality buttons and housing. The shutter sound is also much more quiet and sturdy sounding compared to the rebel series. These are the reasons why I now am on my third 60D body and I plan to keep it until the hypothetical successor comes a long

7D has a bad screen and a non tilting screen and no volume adjustment in video recording.

 

[locke42]

I'm honestly not holding my breath on lowlight performance from the T4i. I suspect that the major benefit will come from JPEG processing by the DIGIC 5. The question is, would I be better served relying on the DIGIC processor for noise reduction or would I get better results from using a third party program to convert RAW into JPEG? If the former, then I'll go with the T4i. If the latter, then 60D.

And what about ergonomics? I don't like the absence of the top LCD screen on the T4i, or the lack of dials. Simpler controls usually means slower usage in real world use. But then again, I've never owned a DSLR before, so I don't actually know how it affects real world use. And then there's the 6-shot buffer and less than half the battery life of the 60D. I don't do much rapid-fire photography, but I still do some (animals), and, like I said, I take lots of pictures while camping, which necessarily means being in places where I can't easily get replacement batteries.

 

[Overhodet]

It sounds like the 60D is the right choice for you assuming the price is close to the T4i. I actually payed less for the 60D than the T4i preorder price. I have shot the Aurora with the 60D so low noise performance isn't that bad. See my blog for more details and a timelapse video.
http://overhodetcom.blogspot.com/

Edit: Aurora timelapse shot at ISO 800 and 1600
Ergonomics isn't as good on the rebel series. It is especially annoying to not have separate dials for aperture and shutter speed.

 

[Random Orbits]

I'd go with the T4i. Even if the sensor is the same as the one used in existing Rebel/60D/7Ds, then it will be a huge increase in IQ compared to a P&S. The T4i is much more friendly for video users with auto AF. The T4i is basically a combined HD camcorder and a SLR, which is a good value and it reduces the amount of gear you'd need to do both tasks.

Battery life is so much better for SLRs compared to P&S. If that concerns you, get a spare or two. You could also shoot just RAW to increase burst rate according to the spec. I never use jpgs out of the camera anymore. Everything goes through LR, which is then used to generate jpgs after all the changes are in.

 

[Marsu42]

As I understand it, the T4i and 60D are practically identical in performance now, with only a few differences between them. Do the T4i's new features (DIGIC 5, touchscreen, stereo sound) make up for losing the 60D's top LCD, better constructed body, and better battery life?

No, they aren't. The 60d has, apart from the mentioned battery life, better built/sealing, top lcd & back dial at least ...
a) larger viewfinder & pentaprism
b) 1/8000s shutter,
c) 1/250s flash sync (even better than the 5d3)
d) larger buffer and better fps in raw for continuous shots (the 650d fps rate is for making multi-shot jpeg noise
reduction feasible)
e) runs magic lantern NOW (a stable digic5 port imho will take a year or so)

Ask yourself if you want video af & a touchscreen, or else get a 60d or if you have money & time to spare wait for the 70d which will have afma & mag body that was cut from the 60d to make the 7d look better.

 

[preppyak]

The T4i is much more friendly for video users with auto AF. The T4i is basically a combined HD camcorder and a SLR, which is a good value and it reduces the amount of gear you'd need to do both tasks.

We assume this. Has anyone posted video of the T4i auto-focus? Cause it could be crap for all we know.

Battery life is so much better for SLRs compared to P&S. If that concerns you, get a spare or two.

Or get the 60D, where you get 3x the battery life. For an entire weekend backpacking trip, you'll never need to change batteries with a 60D.

As was mentioned, the 60D still has a lot of nice elements over the T4i, and Magic Lantern, which is useful for its focus peaking, etc when trying to use the AF. You can get the body for $640+tax from the Canon Loyalty Program, and I believe the 18-135 kit is like $830+tax. Like you said, new, they are about the same price as the T4i, and just from the ergonomics alone I think its worth the upgrade.

I believe Canon Loyalty is also letting you add an extra lens at 20% off, so you can look through and see if there are others you'd want. I think most of the L lenses are excluded. http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/subCategory_10051_10051_-1_22751?WT.mc_id=C126149#

 

[locke42]

What is Magic Lantern? I've only skimmed a few sites and its wiki, but I gather that it adds some significant video features?

 

[preppyak]

What is Magic Lantern? I've only skimmed a few sites and its wiki, but I gather that it adds some significant video features?

Yeah, focus peaking is nice (allows you to see what is in focus), as are some of the other add-ons. It does some nice stuff for photos too. If you've got a Ti camera, it allows you to use the multiples of 160 for video. It allows you to control ISO in 1/3 steps, which is the only way you can use ISO 160, 320, and 640.

You can also control the video quality, you can raise the bit-rate (higher quality) or lower it (allowing you to record longer). There are a million other features, but those are the big ones I've used

 

[boateggs]

Correct me if im wrong, but the T4i will be like other rebels and only allow full stops in ISO and shutter speed while the 60D will allow 1/3 stop increases. This and the ergonomics are why I am waiting for the 70D (I am no hurry and expect to wait until spring)