We were wrong, all of your Canon mirrorless dreams are likely coming true soon

RGF

How you relate to the issue, is the issue.
Jul 13, 2012
2,816
35
Dreams - perhaps a dream caused by indigestion.

Canon's ML is a real yawner. Nothing to reco it - 5 FPS w/ AF, SD card slot only, ...

Canon could have taken a clear lead of Nikon if they had built a 5D M4 as a ML. But I think Canon is afraid to introduce a strong ML camera today because it would hamper plans to the next few models.
 

YuengLinger

Sufficiently Pixelated
CR Pro
Dec 20, 2012
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Dreams - perhaps a dream caused by indigestion.

Canon's ML is a real yawner. Nothing to reco it - 5 FPS w/ AF, SD card slot only, ...

Canon could have taken a clear lead of Nikon if they had built a 5D M4 as a ML. But I think Canon is afraid to introduce a strong ML camera today because it would hamper plans to the next few models.
And they could be working on new batteries and associated tech. Right now, with the bare minimum features included, battery life is just over a 1/3 of still shots we'd get from a 5D IV.
 

RGF

How you relate to the issue, is the issue.
Jul 13, 2012
2,816
35
And they could be working on new batteries and associated tech. Right now, with the bare minimum features included, battery life is just over a 1/3 of still shots we'd get from a 5D IV.
Yes they could have done a lot more with this camera. But in typical Canon fashion, they did not want to put too many goodies in this camera so the next camera could have them.

Interesting to look at both Canon and Nikon - Nikon went all out on the D850 and then seems to have held back on the Z7. Perhaps both Canon and Nikon are testing the ML waters??
 
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Random Orbits

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 14, 2012
2,420
298
And they could be working on new batteries and associated tech. Right now, with the bare minimum features included, battery life is just over a 1/3 of still shots we'd get from a 5D IV.
Better than Nikon then. Same battery as the D850 with over 1800 shots becomes about 300 with the Z7, so that is 1/6th. Mirrorless needs bigger batteries. Wish they had introduced a higher capacity one with the R.
 
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bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
359
186
Just wanted to bump this for reminder how wrong the rumors are

  • 28MP full frame sensor
  • Dual Pixel Auto Focus
  • IBIS (In Body Image Stabilisation)
  • 10fps shooting
  • 4k@30fps
  • 1080p@60fps
  • Priced $1,900
 

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,347
3,678
120
Just wanted to bump this for reminder how wrong the rumors are

  • 28MP full frame sensor
  • Dual Pixel Auto Focus
  • IBIS (In Body Image Stabilisation)
  • 10fps shooting
  • 4k@30fps
  • 1080p@60fps
  • Priced $1,900
30 is as close to 28 as makes no difference.
DPAF, CHECK
Nobody seriously thought Canon would give us IBIS for the same reasons they have given since lens IS was introduced.
8 fps, though it takes the new 'industry standard' without AF.
4k@30fps, CHECK
1080p@60fps, CHECK
Price, well after the early adopter tax it will probably ease to $1999 by the time I'd be happy buying into it.
 

YuengLinger

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Dec 20, 2012
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30 is as close to 28 as makes no difference.
DPAF, CHECK
Nobody seriously thought Canon would give us IBIS for the same reasons they have given since lens IS was introduced.
8 fps, though it takes the new 'industry standard' without AF.
4k@30fps, CHECK
1080p@60fps, CHECK
Price, well after the early adopter tax it will probably ease to $1999 by the time I'd be happy buying into it.
Regarding IBIS, eventually they will yield to demand. Eventually.
 

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,347
3,678
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If you consider that they already do image stabilization on the sensor for video and the new camera can make old and new optical stabilization better, I don’t see why they would abandon what they do. Canon are very good at optical IS and can put it in very affordable lenses as well as very high IQ ones.
 
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dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,629
1,186
Canon could have taken a clear lead of Nikon if they had built a 5D M4 as a ML. But I think Canon is afraid to introduce a strong ML camera today because it would hamper plans to the next few models.
From early reviews the Nikon MILCs have their own issues. Just listen to Tony and Chelsea talk about the AF.

The R is fundamentally solid on stills, thanks in no small part to DPAF, but missing some key specs. This is because Canon feels very little competitive pressure. Despite all the Sony/Fuji/mirrorless hype DSLR sales are strong, EF lens sales are strong, and they remain the market leader. By the numbers Sony has taken Nikon sales, not so much Canon. Even the M series sells well. Given the market Canon will of course skip some features to position the R below the 5D IV.

On video I don't know if they are really protecting their cinema line or if there's simply a fab issue. I never thought DR was that big of an issue, but Canon lagged on DR for a long time simply due to fab limitations. Maybe we're in the same spot with sensor readout speed and TDP.

If so I hope they resolve it fast because they can't sit on cropped underperforming video as long as they sat on DR.
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
If you consider that they already do image stabilization on the sensor for video and the new camera can make old and new optical stabilization better, I don’t see why they would abandon what they do. Canon are very good at optical IS and can put it in very affordable lenses as well as very high IQ ones.
They're good at making video cameras, yet put video in their stills cameras.
They're good at making DSLRs, yet are producing mirrorless ILCs.

If they see the market as demanding sensor wobbling IS, they'll do it.
 

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,347
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They're good at making video cameras, yet put video in their stills cameras.
They're good at making DSLRs, yet are producing mirrorless ILCs.

If they see the market as demanding sensor wobbling IS, they'll do it.
If they believe in lens IS is a better technical solution and they can sell more lenses then they won't. If, as a business, they can make more money from not doing it even if that costs them some sales, they won't.
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
If they believe in lens IS is a better technical solution and they can sell more lenses then they won't. If, as a business, they can make more money from not doing it even if that costs them some sales, they won't.
Agreed, there is a business case. I was using "demand" in a significant sense, as in their profits would suffer if they didn't offer it.

I'm not claiming that will be the reality, by any means; only stating that canon will react to its market research.
 

Durf

Picture Taker - Image Maker
Agreed, there is a business case. I was using "demand" in a significant sense, as in their profits would suffer if they didn't offer it.

I'm not claiming that will be the reality, by any means; only stating that canon will react to its market research.
I wrote them and told them to put IBIS in their next version R camera and I'd buy one to shoot my vintage lens collection with.....they'll do it now, I can't wait! ;)
 

Durf

Picture Taker - Image Maker
Who wouldn't love the new rf 28-70mm f/2L on a body with IBIS? :love:
Yes, IMO it's pretty ridiculous to charge 3 grand for this particular lens and it not being stabilized! LOL, I don't care how sharp it is, there's no way I could justify paying that much for that lens when there's so many other great alternatives like even the Tamron 24-70 VC....sheesh! Canon's targeting some folks with lots of Ben Franklins!
 

YuengLinger

Sufficiently Pixelated
CR Pro
Dec 20, 2012
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Yes, IMO it's pretty ridiculous to charge 3 grand for this particular lens and it not being stabilized! LOL, I don't care how sharp it is, there's no way I could justify paying that much for that lens when there's so many other great alternatives like even the Tamron 24-70 VC....sheesh! Canon's targeting some folks with lots of Ben Franklins!
Right! The lens looks so big and heavy for what photographers would love to have on their cameras for hours, whether for wedding and receptions, long daytime events going in and out of buildings/tents, etc. I don't know how much bigger it would be with lens-based IS, but IBIS...Sigh.
 
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aa_angus

EOS 90D
Nov 25, 2015
188
32
Better than Nikon then. Same battery as the D850 with over 1800 shots becomes about 300 with the Z7, so that is 1/6th. Mirrorless needs bigger batteries. Wish they had introduced a higher capacity one with the R.

They specifically wanted to use accessories that existing customers already have. Lenses, speedlites, batteries. I for one am thrilled they kept the same battery.
 

RGF

How you relate to the issue, is the issue.
Jul 13, 2012
2,816
35
From early reviews the Nikon MILCs have their own issues. Just listen to Tony and Chelsea talk about the AF.

The R is fundamentally solid on stills, thanks in no small part to DPAF, but missing some key specs. This is because Canon feels very little competitive pressure. Despite all the Sony/Fuji/mirrorless hype DSLR sales are strong, EF lens sales are strong, and they remain the market leader. By the numbers Sony has taken Nikon sales, not so much Canon. Even the M series sells well. Given the market Canon will of course skip some features to position the R below the 5D IV.

On video I don't know if they are really protecting their cinema line or if there's simply a fab issue. I never thought DR was that big of an issue, but Canon lagged on DR for a long time simply due to fab limitations. Maybe we're in the same spot with sensor readout speed and TDP.

If so I hope they resolve it fast because they can't sit on cropped underperforming video as long as they sat on DR.
Canon could reinvent the DSLR into the DML. Think of the sales they could create if they had parallel systems (5DM5 and ML 5D M5, 1Dx M3 and the ML 1Dx M3, 7D M3, ML 7D M3). Yes everyone could use the EOS L lens on the ML but if the new RF lenses are lighter and sharper, then over time there would be a lot of replacement glass purchased.

Well that is my thought on this might play out.